China Slowly Taking Over...

[NewIreland]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...5g-from-nortel

I'm certainly not going to write an essay on this topic but I am curious about what the members of this forum think about China's (CCP) complete infiltration of Canadian society and numerous acts of espionage.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by NewIreland

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...5g-from-nortel

I'm certainly not going to write an essay on this topic but I am curious about what the members of this forum think about China's (CCP) complete infiltration of Canadian society and numerous acts of espionage.

We already have a foreign policy thread. Please merge.

[76samian]

Originally Posted by NewIreland

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...5g-from-nortel

I'm certainly not going to write an essay on this topic but I am curious about what the members of this forum think about China's (CCP) complete infiltration of Canadian society and numerous acts of espionage.

Its not a slow take over. Its rapid. Look where we were a year ago and look where we are now.

[1ajs]

was not aware nortel had been hacked but reading the airigance they had in not fixing their security breach. like come on when ur own government is telling you hey aww umm aww guys you might wana fix that and they dont well their own fault in the end damn what a mess

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by NewIreland

China's (CCP) complete infiltration of Canadian society and numerous acts of espionage.

With the example being speculation of an event from 2004? For all the talk of Chinese espionage, hacking, technology stealing etc there is very little actual evidence of such.

[casper]

Originally Posted by milomilo

With the example being speculation of an event from 2004? For all the talk of Chinese espionage, hacking, technology stealing etc there is very little actual evidence of such.

These stories have been floating around for the past 15 years. The stores of France putting bugs in the business class cabin of the Air France flight from Montreal to Paris that was popular with the Nortel leadership is another story that has been floating around for 15 years.

I think it is quite reasonable to expect that China would be trying to get Nortel IP to benefit Huawei as well as France trying to do the same to benefit Alcatel. How successful were they? Who knows. Were they able to exploit any value from what they ended up getting? Again who knows. A report here, a power point deck there is not all that useful without the context for the ideation process.

At the time I was working in the nuclear industry. It was know we were targets. Some countries do actively play these games and try to gain information that is useful for their domestic industries. China is by no way the only country that behaves this way.

What is a stretch is to conclude that any of this was responsible for Nortel going under. Nortel was behaving in a very arrogant way for a number of years. They started to fall behind Cisco (and others) and assumed their customers would continue to buy from them because they always bought Nortel in the past. They were wrong. Mitel, Cisco, Ericson, Lucent and Alcatel all started to gain market share from Nortel.

[ssiguy]

This is decades old news for BC. Chinese money and influence in all spheres is obscene.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

This is decades old news for BC. Chinese money and influence in all spheres is obscene.

The thing there though, is that money leaving China is precisely the opposite of what the government of China wants. Literally the reason there is a massive Chinese money laundering scheme in Vancouver is because the Chinese government tries to prevent its citizens investing outside the country. So it's hard to construct a well functioning government conspiracy theory when the most obvious evidence of Chinese interference is its people successfully subverting the diktats of their government.

[scumtoes]

Originally Posted by milomilo

The thing there though, is that money leaving China is precisely the opposite of what the government of China wants. Literally the reason there is a massive Chinese money laundering scheme in Vancouver is because the Chinese government tries to prevent its citizens investing outside the country. So it's hard to construct a well functioning government conspiracy theory when the most obvious evidence of Chinese interference is its people successfully subverting the diktats of their government.

You don't think the people showing up with hockey bags full of cash to river rock aren't well heeled high ranking CCP members?

[casper]

Originally Posted by scumtoes

You don't think the people showing up with hockey bags full of cash to river rock aren't well heeled high ranking CCP members?

They are people who do not trust the CCP or government in China. They want to get their money out and away from the CCP. From a national security perspective I would not be concerned about them. They are breaking Chinese laws they are not very patriotic or loyal to the government in China.

I would be concerned about companies controlled by the government of China wanting to buy into the Canadian oil industry, transportation or tech industries.

[giallo]

Originally Posted by casper

They are people who do not trust the CCP or government in China. They want to get their money out and away from the CCP. From a national security perspective I would not be concerned about them. They are breaking Chinese laws they are not very patriotic or loyal to the government in China.

I would be concerned about companies controlled by the government of China wanting to buy into the Canadian oil industry, transportation or tech industries.

Exactly. Well-heeled Chinese government officials don't need to clean their money at some random Canadian casino. It's those that aren't loyal to/in a position of power with the party that do things like that.

It's the CCP's sphere of global censorship that's a growing issue.

[Good Baklava]

Meh, I fear the hysteria more than any other country. This topic just seems excessively toxic.

There are plenty of large companies based in foreign countries owning large chunks of Canadian industry, I don’t see the need to invent some bogeyman. Even if we were “taken over” I don’t think my life would change very much, and I don’t think the urban development explored by this forum would either.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by scumtoes

You don't think the people showing up with hockey bags full of cash to river rock aren't well heeled high ranking CCP members?

Perhaps. But that doesn't play into the fears of a well organized government effort to undermine foreign powers, it just looks like garden variety corruption and incompetence.

What exactly would the motive be for China to limit moving money out of China, specifically to encourage money laundering and a housing bubble in a medium sized city in a mid tier economy country with little leverage on the world stage? If that is the level of malfeasance that China is up to, I think that is proof the fears are hysterical.

[acottawa]

I am not actually that worried over the medium to long term. They have basically committed demographic suicide in a way no country in history has. They will be far too busy trying to care for 500M old people to be hassling anyone.

Over the short term they are probably quite dangerous.

[ssiguy]

In Coquitlam they were seriously contemplating cutting back on teachers in the public system because they couldn't get the Chinese kids over due to COVID. That's right elementary Chinese kids are in our public schools, have their own curriculum, and are needed to help balance the books of the regular schools. They have been found to be singing the Chinese national anthem and being taught highly questionable morals and not celebrating democratic rule or even human rights. Their social studies teachings are right out of the CCP playbook.

A staggering 35% of all Vancouver city residents are Chinese............not Asian but strictly Chinese. They of course are overwhelmingly wealthy and do not inter mingle with much of the rest of the city.

It should be noted however that there is a HUGE difference between people of Chinese ethnicity from Taiwan & HK and those from the Mainland. The prior tend to want to become more participatory in the general society and are usually strong defenders of human rights and Canadian values. Mainlanders on the other hand seem to overwhelmingly play by the Beijing rule book. The 2 rarely mix and at times are openly hostile to one another. This has been particularly noticeable since the Meng Zhou affair began where the HK/Taiwanese are far more distrusting of her and her motives than Mainlanders. The current political situation in HK is very much on display in Vancouver.

The Chinese may be a large ethnic group but the difference between HK/Tai and Mainlanders in the social, political, and economic spheres is massive and they have little in common. It's much like Finland and Russia........they are the same race and live right beside each other but their values are a world apart.

[whatnext]

The “overwhelming majority” of Chinese immigrants are not extremely wealthy. But those who are often conspicuously flaunt it which might give that impression.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by scumtoes

You don't think the people showing up with hockey bags full of cash to river rock aren't well heeled high ranking CCP members?

They're not CCP members. They either work for a shell company or have some relation to a CCP member as a "white hand". After all you can't legally profit from illegal business activities yourself. I'm sure that we already know this but RE is one of the best ways to hide money as you can show up and drop a lot of cash without raising suspicions. Canada, not Vancouver, IMO is becoming the next Switzerland/Panama - a place to hide your money.

Originally Posted by whatnext

The “overwhelming majority” of Chinese immigrants are not extremely wealthy. But those who are often conspicuously flaunt it which might give that impression.

They are not wealthy on paper. Big difference. Many housewives and students are driving better vehicles and living in better homes than those that work and live in this country. And that's not by accident.