HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #501  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2019, 1:58 PM
suburbanite's Avatar
suburbanite suburbanite is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Toronto & NYC
Posts: 5,379
Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
I've read that the more recently arriving cuisines like Korean tend to be more true to their roots because of improved availability of ingredients (couldn't get authentic Chinese vegetables, spices, etc, 100+ years ago when the traditional Chinese Canadian/American dishes became popular) and because palates are more adapted to Asian tastes and textures.

I'm sure if Thai, Vietnamese and Korean became popular in NA 100 years ago, they'd be equally bastardized as well. (I say this tongue in cheek, as the "bastardized" Chinese food we know well here has effectively become its own style of cuisine, not quite Chinese and not quite North American.)
Seems like a reasonable explanation. The vast majority of recent Chinese immigrants are also not likely to be the ones opening small family-run restaurants either.
__________________
Discontented suburbanite since 1994
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #502  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2019, 3:15 PM
esquire's Avatar
esquire esquire is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 37,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
This is just too awesome. SSP needs more of this.

Incontrovertible evidence that diners in Saskatoon and/or Saskatchewan are more refined than in Ontario!
Saskscraper only has one mode, but at least it's amusing.

FWIW I kind of like Old Spaghetti Factory... it's a nice place to take a family. I usually make it into one about once a year or so.

The pasta is on par with what you get at other mid-level restaurants, they always have some charm and ambience, the prices are reasonable and they are pretty kid-friendly generally.

Obviously it's not the place to see and be seen if you're an upwardly mobile 20 or 30 something, but that is only a small part of the overall restaurant market.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #503  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2019, 5:08 PM
urbandreamer's Avatar
urbandreamer urbandreamer is online now
recession proof
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,581
Sweet and sour chicken ball poutine? Or stick it on a burger.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #504  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2019, 3:28 AM
SaskScraper's Avatar
SaskScraper SaskScraper is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Saskatoon/London
Posts: 2,359
Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
Saskscraper only has one mode, but at least it's amusing.

FWIW I kind of like Old Spaghetti Factory... it's a nice place to take a family. I usually make it into one about once a year or so.

The pasta is on par with what you get at other mid-level restaurants, they always have some charm and ambience, the prices are reasonable and they are pretty kid-friendly generally.

Obviously it's not the place to see and be seen if you're an upwardly mobile 20 or 30 something, but that is only a small part of the overall restaurant market.
thanks Esquire, I do like to add a little hilarity to my brevity in posts.

Just think of how things could be worse for us, we could be living in a Canadian town which couldn't come up with anything original for it's self, including a town name and had to import one from England including it's culture (because they couldn't come up with a culture of their own either) and Shakespeare would be spinning like a wood lathe in his grave if he were to know.

I've been to Old Spaghetti factory on vacations to California with my family from a young age so it'll be interesting to see how much I like it from how I remember when it opens in Saskatoon.


speaking of Saskatoon,
Forbes raving about Saskatoon just this last week...

Quote:
Originally Posted by prairieguy View Post
A shout out to Saskatoon as Hottest New Foodie Destination in Forbes magazine!

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sandram...M#1d8ad9c97896

Last edited by SaskScraper; Jul 19, 2019 at 5:35 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #505  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2019, 11:18 PM
SignalHillHiker's Avatar
SignalHillHiker SignalHillHiker is offline
I ♣ Baby Seals
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Sin Jaaawnz, Newf'nland
Posts: 34,723
Haven't been yet, but I anticipate great things.

Cojones (same crowd as opened Boca Tapas Bar) opened today in the Franklin Hotel on Water Street.



I expect it to be delicious.

Also, funny aside...

jeddy1989, being fluent in Spanish, sometimes forgets which individual Spanish words all English-speakers know. When we first talked about Cojones, he helpfully explained, "That means balls. But not like toy balls you play with. In Spanish, cojones is specifically testicles" And we were all like, "Yeah, we know." But still, this restaurant will forever be known among us as "Specifically Testicles" and I encourage everyone to do the same.
__________________
Note to self: "The plural of anecdote is not evidence."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #506  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2019, 12:21 AM
Architype's Avatar
Architype Architype is online now
♒︎ Empirically Canadian
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: 🍁 Canada
Posts: 11,993
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHikka View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
What will be the future of the traditional Chinese-Canadian/Chinese-American diner that sprung up all over the continent in the 1950s and 1960s serving up chop suey, sweet'n'sour chicken balls and fortune cookies, dishes and treats that are only vaguely Chinese and that no ethnically Chinese person in Asia has ever heard of?
...

Your question reminds me of this fantastic long read from Ann Hui regarding Canadian Chinese restaurants in small towns across Canada:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life...ticle30539419/
That article is interesting, especially about the one on Fogo island.

This is something that has also happened in Vancouver over the past couple of decades, it's more difficult to find the Chinese-Canadian places now, whereas they used to be in ever neighbourhood. Vietnamese food restaurants, which are big here, have also changed in the same way. However, the rich variety of new trends makes up for a loss which is mostly based on nostalgia. Cuisines need to evolve, as we transition to more environmentally friendly and socially acceptable healthy pc. diets.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #507  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2019, 12:31 AM
Architype's Avatar
Architype Architype is online now
♒︎ Empirically Canadian
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: 🍁 Canada
Posts: 11,993
Quote:
Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker View Post
Haven't been yet, but I anticipate great things.

Cojones (same crowd as opened Boca Tapas Bar) opened today in the Franklin Hotel on Water Street.

...
Mexican food must be a bigger niche in SJs than it is here. When I had a visiting relative from there, and they asked me to take them to a Mexican restaurant, I was confounded, since that barely enters our consciousness here amidst all the Asian cuisines. However we seem to have enough Mexican population now to make it more sustainable.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #508  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2019, 1:25 AM
Marty_Mcfly's Avatar
Marty_Mcfly Marty_Mcfly is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: St. John's, NL
Posts: 7,185
Franklin Hotel is where restaurants go to die. Owners of the hotel get their hands on the restaurant, get their noses up in business they shouldn't be involved in, and ruin everything. I hope they can buck the trend, but I have my doubts. Ownership of the Franklin hotel absolutely destroyed my favourite sushi restaurant once they moved in to their building.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #509  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2019, 11:32 PM
SignalHillHiker's Avatar
SignalHillHiker SignalHillHiker is offline
I ♣ Baby Seals
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Sin Jaaawnz, Newf'nland
Posts: 34,723
We (jeddy1989 and his fiance, Ayreonaut and his GF/brother) checked out Bad Bones Ramen's new location on Water Street this evening.











__________________
Note to self: "The plural of anecdote is not evidence."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #510  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2019, 3:06 PM
urbandreamer's Avatar
urbandreamer urbandreamer is online now
recession proof
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,581
Looks good. What's the gluten free scene like--any good bakeries/restaurant options etc?

My favorite in TO: http://souktabule.com/
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #511  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2019, 7:13 PM
SignalHillHiker's Avatar
SignalHillHiker SignalHillHiker is offline
I ♣ Baby Seals
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Sin Jaaawnz, Newf'nland
Posts: 34,723
It's not a concern for me, so I haven't really looked - but most of the places you'd actually want to go seem to have gluten-fee, vegan, and vegetarian options. You just might miss out on some things (i.e. a white bread bagel at Georgestown Bakery, which probably doesn't have gluten-free options - but Rocket and Manna are just as good and they have some things). I imagine we're a little behind on gluten-free things, and there are fewer options here overall given it's a small city, but we're not like one of those countries where not eating red meat and white bread is classified as a mental illness. We're still very North American.
__________________
Note to self: "The plural of anecdote is not evidence."

Last edited by SignalHillHiker; Aug 6, 2019 at 8:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #512  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2019, 8:22 PM
TorontoDrew's Avatar
TorontoDrew TorontoDrew is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 9,789
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbandreamer View Post
What's the gluten free scene?

Nothing!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #513  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2019, 9:07 PM
rousseau's Avatar
rousseau rousseau is offline
Registered Drug User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Southern Ontario
Posts: 8,119
The Chinese takeover of Waterloo has advanced to the point that there are now a couple Lanzhou-style noodle joints where they make the noodles fresh onsite.

This is Gol's Lanzhou Noodle, the most popular and best of the beef noodle soup places. It's absolutely delicious. We were seated at the "bar," so I couldn't help but shoot a clandestine video of the noodle maestro in action.

Video Link
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #514  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2019, 3:16 PM
Capsicum's Avatar
Capsicum Capsicum is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Western Hemisphere
Posts: 2,489
Quote:
Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
What will be the future of the traditional Chinese-Canadian/Chinese-American diner that sprung up all over the continent in the 1950s and 1960s serving up chop suey, sweet'n'sour chicken balls and fortune cookies, dishes and treats that are only vaguely Chinese and that no ethnically Chinese person in Asia has ever heard of?
Well, North Americanized Greek, Italian and Mexican ("Tex-Mex") don't seem to have gone anywhere in Canada or stateside, even if many waves of previous mom-and-pop shop owners' kids and grandkids have long given up the family business and assimilated into the office job life and suburbanized. And even if nowadays as travel gets cheaper, many North Americans have really gone to places like Italy and tasted "real Italian" etc., or if newer waves of Mexican immigrants in places like the southwest US/Texas/California arrived, they didn't get rid of Tex-Mex food in lieu of their newer "more authentic" versions.

Is there a reason why North American Chinese food would be expected to have less staying power than other "Americanized/Canadianized" cuisines?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #515  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2019, 3:48 PM
CityTech CityTech is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 2,807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capsicum View Post
Well, North Americanized Greek, Italian and Mexican ("Tex-Mex") don't seem to have gone anywhere in Canada or stateside, even if many waves of previous mom-and-pop shop owners' kids and grandkids have long given up the family business and assimilated into the office job life and suburbanized. And even if nowadays as travel gets cheaper, many North Americans have really gone to places like Italy and tasted "real Italian" etc., or if newer waves of Mexican immigrants in places like the southwest US/Texas/California arrived, they didn't get rid of Tex-Mex food in lieu of their newer "more authentic" versions.

Is there a reason why North American Chinese food would be expected to have less staying power than other "Americanized/Canadianized" cuisines?
What's fascinating is that these "North Americanized" cuisines emerged for all of the earlier (pre-globalization age) waves of immigration to this continent. You made the point of Greek, Italian, and Mexican as well; there's similar examples of some Jewish-American dishes as well (bagels and lox, for example--a thing invented by Jewish immigrants to the United States and not widely eaten by their forefathers in Europe or in today's Israel). Much of it had to do with the historical unavailability of authentic ingredients. But in today's age with globalization, newer immigrant cuisines are remaining much more authentic. I doubt we'll ever see "North Americanized" Middle Eastern or West African cuisine the way chop suey or spaghetti and meatballs are for Chinese and Italian cuisine.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #516  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2019, 5:02 PM
SaskScraper's Avatar
SaskScraper SaskScraper is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Saskatoon/London
Posts: 2,359
Quote:
Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker View Post
It's not a concern for me, so I haven't really looked - but most of the places you'd actually want to go seem to have gluten-fee, vegan, and vegetarian options. You just might miss out on some things (i.e. a white bread bagel at Georgestown Bakery, which probably doesn't have gluten-free options - but Rocket and Manna are just as good and they have some things). I imagine we're a little behind on gluten-free things, and there are fewer options here overall given it's a small city, but we're not like one of those countries where not eating red meat and white bread is classified as a mental illness. We're still very North American.
Hmmm, doesn't that comment kind of negate your whole Newfoundland-is-Ireland-v2.0 thing?
oh well, now that you acknowledge that you're actually very 'North America', hopefully no one ever asks you abroad why you voted Trump into power like the rest of us Canadian 'mainlanders'.


A busy Summer for restaurant openings on Broadway Ave in Saskatoon!
5 new food options, including the already opened Ace Burger, Beppi’s Gelato and Odla, with Kashmire and Prairie Sun Brewery opening this next month.



https://thestarphoenix.com/news/loca...en-this-summer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2pN5pdDan8

As far as the evolution of ethnic cuisine in North America, there seems to be a lot of revisiting global culinary hot spots to reinvigorate or morph local eats, especially most recently in Saskatoon.

One of my current favourite restaurants on Broadway Ave is Bar Gusto.
Executive Chef for Bar Gusto & UNA pizza + wine Saskatoon, Alex Stephenson, trained in Florence, Italy & is a graduate with Honours of the Master Chef Program of the University of Italian Culinary Institute for Foreigners (ICIF) in Asti, Italy.
Deep fried artichokes, Lobster and Sweet Corn Risotto, Confit Duck Leg, Egg Yolk Ravioli are my definite favourites.

Bar Gusto is part of the Taste Group of Restaurants that include Cohen's Beer Republic and Picaro Cocktails & Tacos in Saskatoon.

https://www.bargustoyxe.com/
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #517  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2019, 5:04 PM
rousseau's Avatar
rousseau rousseau is offline
Registered Drug User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Southern Ontario
Posts: 8,119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capsicum View Post
Is there a reason why North American Chinese food would be expected to have less staying power than other "Americanized/Canadianized" cuisines?
Well, they're not opening up new Canadian-Chinese restaurants anymore, but really good Chinese restaurants with authentic dishes are popping up all over larger cities to cater to Chinese immigrants and students, and my impression is that there is a spillover effect into the non-Chinese population.

I don't have statistics, but you can tell that there are a lot fewer mom and pop Italian and Greek restaurants in Toronto and Hamilton than there used to be, and they're not being replaced. These days any new Italian eatery opening up is going to go for authenticity, not "whatsamatter for you?"

I'm not sure how much I trust my own perceptions on this, as my more than passing acquaintance with the "Chinese world" hinders my objectivity, but my take: Tex-Mex tastes as good or better to the North American palate than what you actually get in Mexico because it exaggerates the base Mexican flavours in a way that you can't do with Chinese cuisine. The flavours in American/Canadian-Chinese cuisine are really different from what you get in China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore and Malaysia (not to mention the extreme lack of variety), whereas any Mexican will recognize the flavours in Tex-Mex food and readily scarf it down.

By contrast, you don't see recent Chinese immigrants in Canadian-Chinese restaurants. Well, unless they're in a smaller locale where it's the only game in town. But they won't be eating sweet and sour chicken balls.

My suspicion is that the non-Chinese children of people who grew up eating Canadian-Chinese sweet and sour chicken balls will eventually be won over by the vastly superior flavours and variety offered by authentic Chinese food, not least because people these days tend to be concerned with authenticity in a way that previous generations weren't. I could be wrong, though. Maybe it's only the large-scale immigration from China that's driving the Chinese food revolution in Canada.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #518  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2019, 4:27 PM
Capsicum's Avatar
Capsicum Capsicum is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Western Hemisphere
Posts: 2,489
Quote:
Originally Posted by CityTech View Post
I doubt we'll ever see "North Americanized" Middle Eastern or West African cuisine the way chop suey or spaghetti and meatballs are for Chinese and Italian cuisine.
Well, you do have something like Halifax donair for a Canadian example of Middle Eastern (I think said to date to the 70s though), and in New York city and spreading elsewhere internationally, there's the famous "Halal Guys" American chain/food cart phenomenon.

For West African cuisine, there's the argument that actually many West African influences survive in the western hemisphere through the African diaspora, even those surviving the slave trade (eg. Soul food in African American cuisine has black-eyed peas from west Africa, Jambalaya in Louisiana may be influenced by both west African Jollof rice as well as Spanish/French Provençal cuisine).

To your point about globalization doing away with the pressure that created "new cuisines" due to necessity (substituting hard to get ingredients in the New World for old country ones), that's true. But I still wouldn't put it past people to create new cuisines by deliberate experiment and trial and error and in that way still create "new cuisines" (yes, I know "fusion" cuisine gets a lot of flak for being oversold), even if not in the old style of substituting and swapping ingredients out of necessity rather than choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
Well, they're not opening up new Canadian-Chinese restaurants anymore, but really good Chinese restaurants with authentic dishes are popping up all over larger cities to cater to Chinese immigrants and students, and my impression is that there is a spillover effect into the non-Chinese population.

I don't have statistics, but you can tell that there are a lot fewer mom and pop Italian and Greek restaurants in Toronto and Hamilton than there used to be, and they're not being replaced. These days any new Italian eatery opening up is going to go for authenticity, not "whatsamatter for you?"

I'm not sure how much I trust my own perceptions on this, as my more than passing acquaintance with the "Chinese world" hinders my objectivity, but my take: Tex-Mex tastes as good or better to the North American palate than what you actually get in Mexico because it exaggerates the base Mexican flavours in a way that you can't do with Chinese cuisine. The flavours in American/Canadian-Chinese cuisine are really different from what you get in China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore and Malaysia (not to mention the extreme lack of variety), whereas any Mexican will recognize the flavours in Tex-Mex food and readily scarf it down.

By contrast, you don't see recent Chinese immigrants in Canadian-Chinese restaurants. Well, unless they're in a smaller locale where it's the only game in town. But they won't be eating sweet and sour chicken balls.

My suspicion is that the non-Chinese children of people who grew up eating Canadian-Chinese sweet and sour chicken balls will eventually be won over by the vastly superior flavours and variety offered by authentic Chinese food, not least because people these days tend to be concerned with authenticity in a way that previous generations weren't. I could be wrong, though. Maybe it's only the large-scale immigration from China that's driving the Chinese food revolution in Canada.
Another thing that I wonder about. People talk a lot about how you need immigrants from X country to genuinely maintain authenticity. But in theory, why couldn't you get cuisines maintained by people who genuinely like a cuisine and want to cook it at home.

Why couldn't you get non-Chinese people to make authentic Chinese cuisine or non-Italians to make authentic Italian?

We already have this kind of attitude for example, for fine dining, we don't expect a French chef to be always the one to be making French cuisine nor do we expect that the only way to get "real" French food is to import French immigrants. It's expected that people can pick it up, regardless of their ancestry or cultural background.

You can be a French literature professor and not have any French ancestry or be an expert in Chinese martial arts or Arabic calligraphy and not have Chinese or Arab ancestry, after all.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #519  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2019, 5:08 PM
Me&You Me&You is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capsicum View Post
Another thing that I wonder about. People talk a lot about how you need immigrants from X country to genuinely maintain authenticity. But in theory, why couldn't you get cuisines maintained by people who genuinely like a cuisine and want to cook it at home.

Why couldn't you get non-Chinese people to make authentic Chinese cuisine or non-Italians to make authentic Italian?

We already have this kind of attitude for example, for fine dining, we don't expect a French chef to be always the one to be making French cuisine nor do we expect that the only way to get "real" French food is to import French immigrants. It's expected that people can pick it up, regardless of their ancestry or cultural background.
That's already happening as well, as noted by SaskScraper - the chef at Bar Gusto is Italian trained and would certainly be capable of created authentic Italian dishes (unless I'm misjudging the last name "Stephenson" as not Italian ), even if the menu according to their website doesn't scream "authentic".

Another example - in Calgary, Chef Darren McLean's Shokunin is a highly acclaimed and authentic Izakaya... And no, Darren McLean is not Japanese
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #520  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2019, 5:52 PM
MonkeyRonin's Avatar
MonkeyRonin MonkeyRonin is offline
¥ ¥ ¥
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 9,915
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capsicum View Post
You can be a French literature professor and not have any French ancestry or be an expert in Chinese martial arts or Arabic calligraphy and not have Chinese or Arab ancestry, after all.

Of course, but in the case of running a successful restaurant you also need a sufficiently large patronage to support it. This can happen by having an audience of well-informed, discerning locals - but more commonly, it's having a large immigrant community to provide the necessary critical mass. Or both - but then these things also tend to feed into each other.
__________________
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 8:44 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.