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  #61  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2008, 11:14 AM
Totu Totu is offline
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Excelente este thread!

Tengo alguna foto de la fachada completa de la estacion de Once actualizada, tengo que encontrarla...

La estación de Cordoba que mantiene Ferrocentral me dio depresión. Ya de solo ver las vías que salen de la estación con los durmientes tapados por la tierra, las plantas y la basura entiendo el poco uso que se da a la estación.

La estación de la linea San Martín se ve muy bonita, pero más allá de lo bonita, los usuarios tienen la satisfacción de tener instalaciones cuidadas, conservadas, limpias y con trenes al menos en condiciones aceptables...

Las ultimas fotos.... sin palabras...


Las encontré...
Son de agosto de 2007. La entrada principal creo que aún no estaba terminanda... Hoy?








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Last edited by Totu; Sep 4, 2008 at 11:55 AM.
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  #62  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2008, 12:11 PM
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Para amantes de los trenes!

Que no te dé "depresión", Totu... el Ferrocentral funciona, a los patadones, pero funciona.

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  #63  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2008, 12:24 PM
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  #64  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2008, 3:52 PM
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Yo soy un ferrófilo de larga data pero no estoy para nada de acuerdo con la visión naive de ferrofilismo monolítico de tren que tiene Solanas. Para él el tren merece siempre un lugar por condición, es como los viejos de los ferroclubes que solo conciben trenes por todos lados en vez de tener una visión más polimodal de transporte donde cada tipología de medio sirve para un trayecto o mercado particular y otra no. Además demoniza la privatización cuando en realidad no hubo privatización sino concesión del la operación que son cosas completamente distintas.
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  #65  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2008, 4:33 PM
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  #66  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2008, 7:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pablozar View Post
Yo soy un ferrófilo de larga data pero no estoy para nada de acuerdo con la visión naive de ferrofilismo monolítico de tren que tiene Solanas. Para él el tren merece siempre un lugar por condición, es como los viejos de los ferroclubes que solo conciben trenes por todos lados en vez de tener una visión más polimodal de transporte donde cada tipología de medio sirve para un trayecto o mercado particular y otra no. Además demoniza la privatización cuando en realidad no hubo privatización sino concesión del la operación que son cosas completamente distintas.
Totalmente cierto, me parece que a Pino le está agarrando al igual que momento le pasó a su mentor (Old Pochus) el viejazo y no está en condiciones de saber reconocer que es el momento de decir rien va plus.....
Che, no quiero desviar el gran tema de este excelente hilo pero miráte en algún lugar fotos de las viejas terminales paulistas (una de ellas, Da Luz todavía funciona...la otra es el Auditorio Ciudadano....) y tambien los chilean brothers tienen a Alameda en Santiago, que es magnífica.
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  #67  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2008, 8:09 PM
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Cazzo si las conozco, laizard. Viví en Sao Paulo. La mejor de Brasil a mi entender es la Estação do CPTM (antiguamente La Luz) pero coincido en que en los dos países vecinos existe un cuidado mucho mayor que en el nuestro. Allá no solamente se restaura, se mantiene. Acá se lava la cara o en el mejor de los casos se arena por única vez (como la espectacular Belgrano Norte en Retiro) y después quedan a merced del tiempo, el hollín y la fauna vernácula.
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  #68  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2008, 11:35 AM
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Las cosas malas las aprendemos rápido.

Pennsylvania Train Station, NY

Estuve viendo la documental sobre esta estación en History Channel y realmente no puedo entender como los yanquis pudieron acabar con semejante edificio, va... si puedo.

Estructura Original (1910–1964)



The original structure was made of pink granite and was marked by an imposing, sober colonnade of corinthian columns arranged in Doric order. The colonnades embodied the sophisticated integration of multiple functions and circulation of people and goods. McKim, Mead and White's Pennsylvania Station combined frank glass-and-steel train sheds and a magnificently proportioned concourse with a breathtaking monumental entrance to New York City. It was immortalized in films (see link below). From the street, twin carriageways, modelled after Berlin's Brandenburg Gate, led to the two railroads that the building served, the Pennsylvania and the Long Island Rail Road. Its enormous main waiting room, inspired by the Roman Baths of Caracalla, approximated the scale of St. Peter's nave in Rome, expressed here in a steel framework clad in travertine. It was the largest indoor space in New York City and, indeed, one of the largest public spaces in the world. Covering more than seven acres, it was, said the Baltimore Sun in April, 2007, “As grand a corporate statement in stone, glass and sculpture as one could imagine”.[9] In her 2007 book, Conquering Gotham: a Gilded Age Epic – The Construction of Penn Station and Its Tunnels, historian Jill Jonnes called the original edifice a “great Doric temple to transportation”.[10]



During the more than half-century timespan of the original station under owner Pennsylvania Railroad (1910-1964), hundreds of intercity passenger trains arrived and departed daily, serving distant places such as Chicago and St. Louis on “Pennsy” rails, and beyond on connecting railroads to Miami, Florida, and the west. In addition to the Long Island Rail Road, other lines using Pennsylvania Station during that era were the New Haven and the Lehigh Valley Railroads. For a few years during World War I and the early 1920s, arch rival Baltimore and Ohio Railroad passenger trains to Washington, Chicago, and St. Louis also used Pennsylvania Station, initially by order of the USRA, until the Pennsylvania Railroad terminated the B&O's access in 1926.[11] The station saw its heaviest usage during World War II, but by the late-1950s intercity rail passenger volumes declined dramatically with the coming of the Jet Age and the Interstate Highway System.

The demolition of the original structure — although considered by some to be justified as progressive at a time of declining rail passenger service — created international outrage.[9]. As dismantling of the grand old structure began, The New York Times editorially lamented:

Until the first blow fell, no one was convinced that Penn Station really would be demolished, or that New York would permit this monumental act of vandalism against one of the largest and finest landmarks of its age of Roman elegance.[12]







Actual estación. Desabrida como un yanqui.


Amplios espacios, como antes...


DemolitionAfter a renovation covered some of the grand columns with plastic and blocked off the spacious central hallway with a new ticket office, Lewis Mumford wrote critically in The New Yorker in 1958 that “nothing further that could be done to the station could damage it”. History was to prove him wrong. Under the presidency of Pennsylvania Railroad's Stuart T. Saunders (who later headed ill-fated Penn Central Transportation), the above-ground components of this structure (the platforms are below street level) were demolished in 1964. Although the demolition did not disrupt the essential day-to-day operations, it made way for present-day Madison Square Garden, along with two office towers. A 1968 advertisement depicted the architect's model of the final plan for the Madison Square Garden Center complex, which would replace the original Pennsylvania Station.
A point made in the defense of the demolition of the old Penn Station at the time was that the cost of maintaining the old structure had become prohibitively expensive. The citizens of New York City were unwilling to shoulder the costs of maintaining and cleaning their beloved station. The question of whether it made sense to preserve a building, intended to be a cost-effective and functional piece of the city's infrastructure, simply as a “monument” to the past was raised in defense of the plans to demolish it. As a New York Times editorial critical of the demolition noted at the time, a “civilization gets what it wants, is willing to pay for, and ultimately deserves”.[13] Modern architects rushed to save the ornate building, although it was contrary to their own styles. They called the station a treasure and chanted “Don’t Amputate - Renovate” at rallies.
Only three eagles salvaged from the station are known to remain in New York City: two in front of the Penn Plaza / Madison Square Garden complex, and one in the courtyard of the School of Engineering at The Cooper Union.[15] Three are on Long Island: two at the United States Merchant Marine Academy in Kings Point and one at the Long Island Rail Road station in Hicksville, New York. Four reside on the Market Street Bridge in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, across from that city's 30th Street Station. One is positioned near the end zone at the football field of Hampden-Sydney College near Farmville, Virginia. Yet another is located on the grounds of the National Zoo in Washington, DC.
The furor over the demolition of such a well-known landmark, and its replacement by what continues to be widely deplored as a mediocre slab, are often cited as catalysts for the architectural preservation movement in the United States. New laws were passed to restrict such demolition. Within the decade, Grand Central Terminal was protected under the city’s new landmarks preservation act — a protection which was upheld by the courts in 1978, after a challenge by Grand Central’s owner, Penn Central.

The outcry over the loss of Penn Station prompted activists to question the “development scheme” mentality cultivated by New York’s “master builder”, Robert Moses. Public protests and a rejection of his plan by the city government meant an end to Moses' plans for a Lower Manhattan Expressway.

In the longer run, the sense that something irreplaceable had been lost contributed to the erosion of confidence in Modernism itself and its sweeping forms of urban renewal. Interest in historic preservation was strengthened. Comparing the new and the old Penn Station, renowned Yale architectural historian Vincent Scully once wrote, “One entered the city like a god; one scuttles in now like a rat.” This feeling, shared by many New Yorkers, has led to movements for a new Penn Station that could somehow atone for the loss of an architectural treasure.


Perdón que no lo traduje, pero era mucho. Igual creo que se entiende bien. ¿No?
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  #69  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2008, 3:52 PM
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Excelente informe, Leo!!!

Creo que ésto resume lo que me provoca ver la actual estación:

“One entered the city like a god; one scuttles in now like a rat.”
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  #70  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2008, 9:26 PM
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Por Dios lo que son ese lobby y esa nave
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  #71  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2008, 2:47 AM
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Excelente thread, tanto por las fotos como por la información... Esta última estación (Pennsylvania) era mucho más pintoresca en los tiempos pasados que en la actualidad... hoy parece una estación más... qué pena!!!
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  #72  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2008, 11:37 AM
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Leo. No puedo creer que los yanquis tiraron abajo semejante lugar!!!!!!
No, no, decime que leí mal por favor!!!!
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  #73  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2008, 12:04 PM
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No solo lo tiraron abajo, sino que hicieron el Madisson Square Garden y una estación subterránea que es una bosta.

Cuando se dieron cuenta de la animalada que hicieron aprendieron la lección y empezaron a conservar construcciones historicas. Ellos aprendieron.
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  #74  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2008, 2:25 PM
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Inceíble!!! A lo que puede llegar la pelotudez humana!!!!
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  #75  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2008, 7:10 PM
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Xddd q burrada!!! como pudiéron tirar esa obra de arte por esto...



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  #76  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2008, 2:02 AM
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NOOOOOOO... Cómo pudieron hacer eso????? Lo único bueno es que si sirvió para aprender a cuidar el patrimonio vale, pero lo perdido, es irrecuperable...

Aprenderemos nosotros alguna vez????????
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  #77  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2008, 3:06 PM
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Nueva York es famosa por tirar abajo lo que sea en pos de su frenético crecimiento.
Es parte de su génesis. Ni siquiera sé si le puede criticar.
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  #78  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2008, 3:58 PM
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Lo de la estación pensilvania fue un crimen total, la pelotudez humana no es un patrimonio netamente argentino.

Lo que se ve en las fotos de la estación once de septiembre son los padres de los de cromanion que tomaron toda la calle mitre y parte de la fachada de la estación como "monumento".
En general la Once de septiembre esta bastante bien ahora, aunque poco y nada queda de lo original, tampoco la vi con demaciado detenimiento, igualmente esta mil veces mejor de la época en que era, literalmente, una villa.
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  #79  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2008, 10:18 PM
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Agrego un par de mi viaje a Baires.

Retiro F.C.C.A. Una joyita


Retiro F.C.C.C.


Retiro B.A.P. Eeeee... una... una cagada.
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  #80  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2008, 10:30 PM
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La original del San Martín se incendió, pero nunca encontré una foto.
Esa que ven es de contingencia que se convirtió en definitiva.
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