Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[New_Future_Mayor]

Originally Posted by Comrade

I thought this was a cool photo of a new storage place on 600 West.



600 West is such a unique vibe. Oddly, it's one of my favorite areas in the city. There used to be a club there, The Block, which stayed open until the wee hours of the morning and had a strict BYOB policy. It was cool. Sadly, it was closed down last year for what I assume will be lifeless developments like the storage unit that went up just south of it.

This storage place is such a waste of that space. It was developed by Rocky Mtn Movers, who had their office there prior to building this. Industry offered Rocky Mtn movers close to 5 times the value of their land to purchase it and include it in the Industry development. The owners were angry about the changes to the neighborhood, (they had a dirt lot with a crappy tin building on it for an office) and declined the offer. Then they decided to build this because Industry had moved on without them.

[Paniolo Man]

While we need to focus on conserving water we also need to stop expanding infrastructure to consume more water. Specifically, Utah really needs to dump the Bear River Development and the Lake Powell Pipeline. Hearing about the negative impacts from these proposed developments from Dr. Patrick Belmont has me horrified about the possibility of either coming to fruition.

At least the Utah Lake Islands are dead.

[Rileybo]

Originally Posted by New_Future_Mayor

That's completely false, I'm a city resident and I love SLC. Would I like to see some improvements? Of course, but that doesn't mean I don't love this place.

People like us are the exception, Mayor. Never have I seen city pride here like I have in cities like Boston, Chicago, Portland, Austin, St. Louis, hell even places like Topeka. Residents here love to complain about everything, no matter the perspective.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by Rileybo

People like us are the exception, Mayor. Never have I seen city pride here like I have in cities like Boston, Chicago, Portland, Austin, St. Louis, hell even places like Topeka. Residents here love to complain about everything, no matter the perspective.

Phoenix feels the same way yet they're both great places to live with great outdoor amenities literally within the metro areas. I think it's a grass is always greener mindset but I don't know why it's so strong in certain places.

I've traveled and worked extensively in most of the online cities which get constant hype including all on your list except St. Louis.. They're nice, sure, but they all have just as many if not more problems.

[Ironweed]

I'll chip in my two cents. There 'IS' a legislative bias against SLC. The legislature is full of people who are self-dealers and promoters. Many represent rural farmers who detest the idea of preserving water for the Great Salt Lake. Agriculture in Utah is not about feeding people, but about growing alfalfa which is a water guzzling plant. Over 50% of it is sold to China. Over 80% of our water is used for hay crops. This is ridiculous. We have water, we just need to get it back to the people and to protect our environment. The people at the legislature need to be reminded that SLC 'IS' the premier city of the state. Not the prison development at Draper. Not Provo. Not Sandy. It is SLC. Period! SLC is where the future of our state lies. Make sure to let your legislature know about preserving the Lake, investing in the city, and the Rio Grande Plan. The more people we have voicing our concerns, and the higher the frequency we do it, changes will be made. Yes we have complainers, and we may not always agree, but I think we all care about the future of the state's premier city. We all want it to be the best it can be.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by Rileybo

People like us are the exception, Mayor. Never have I seen city pride here like I have in cities like Boston, Chicago, Portland, Austin, St. Louis, hell even places like Topeka. Residents here love to complain about everything, no matter the perspective.

Because Salt Lake is so broad that even people who grew up outside the city just pretend they're from here. In Chicago, Boston and other areas, you have a truly defined urban area that does feel a bit independent from the rest of the county/metro.

Salt Lake doesn't until you get way out south by Sandy.

Salt Lake is about 17% of the population of Salt Lake County.

Chicago is over 50% of the population of Cook County.

Portland is 80% of the population of Multnomah County.

But I do think there's neighborhood pride and that's a bit more defined and unique.

The Avenues, SugarHouse, Westside - they all have community pride.

But on the whole, the pride of the city itself is limited because Salt Lake is limited and people who live in South Salt Lake, or West Valley or Millcreek might not be part of Salt Lake but they certainly act like it.

[Rileybo]

Originally Posted by locolife

Phoenix feels the same way yet they're both great places to live with great outdoor amenities literally within the metro areas. I think it's a grass is always greener mindset but I don't know why it's so strong in certain places.

I've traveled and worked extensively in most of the online cities which get constant hype including all on your list except St. Louis.. They're nice, sure, but they all have just as many if not more problems.

Every town has problems, sure. That’s not my point.

Just speaking for myself, I don’t look at the culture of these other cities and hold them on any kind of higher pedestal in relation to Salt Lake. I may hold some personal envy from time to time. I wish I could take pride in more things about this place outside of superficial attachments, like say our amazing outdoor recreation. Some of you please, don’t interpret this the wrong way, but in many regards, culturally and logistically, this state often has a backwards way of doing things. The general counter culture in SLC would not be considered a counter culture anywhere else outside of this particular region.

I’m not in the grass is greener mindset, but I think there’s some truth to the saying “everyone hates their home town”, so I see your point there. I’m sure many of us would like Salt Lake City to be seen with a little more nuance by outsiders. And to those of us who call this place our home town, it stings just a bit more. As I’ve expressed in previous posts and antidotes, sometimes it stings how other common people receive me and interpret things about me after they learn I’m from here.

It’s going to sting beyond belief when my home becomes welcome to monthly arsenic storms, with no snow, no clear days, and no one will ever get to truly experience this unique place like it’s been ever again.. within my lifetime. Likely most of ours. And its been completely preventable. Some of us say things like “I’m sure someone can come to a solution.” The solutions are obvious, anyway.. but who’s actively trying right now? Gaining any serious traction right now? Our legislators are actively trying to screw us and and protect their own asses. This decade, it gets dire.

[wrendog]

This doom and gloom you got going on, ain't healthy Riley.

It's gonna be ok.

[Rileybo]

I appreciate your concern, Wren. Thank you.

However, the experts are telling everyone it’s not okay.

Outside of the actual research papers, countless studies, and general understanding of the history and ecology of the Earth… a quick google search for “Great Salt Lake Drying Up” pulls up:

Washington Post - https://www.washingtonpost.com/clima...tah-drying-up/

CNN - https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/01/06/u...ate/index.html

Smithsonian magazine - https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart...ust-180981439/

USA Today - https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...s/11003747002/

Etc.

I’m not blowing things out of proportion.

I’ll stop here for now, but the nation is talking about Salt Lake City and the region while the people living here are behaving a little to passively if you ask me.

Anyway how’s Astra looking?

[msbutah]

My Swiftian take: if there is a massive de-population of the Wasatch Front because the lake is a toxic dustbowl, doesn't that free up all that water to go back into the lake?

[Atlas]

More great downtown aerials by Scott Taylor:

Originally Posted by Rileybo

The general counter culture in SLC would not be considered a counter culture anywhere else outside of this particular region.

Nonsense. The Utah counter-culture is unique and has elements that would not be recognized in a more broadly considered counter-culture, much less the general American culture. Ex-Mormon angst is a real thing.

Originally Posted by Rileybo

This decade, it gets dire.

In the midst of the best winter in 20 years, I find it hard to take hyperbolic statements like this seriously. The lake level will recover a bit this year and people won't stop being concerned about it. These things are not linear: if the situation becomes more dire than it is now, the legislature will take more extreme measures. Do you think the Church wants the lake to dry up?

[Makid]

Originally Posted by msbutah

My Swiftian take: if there is a massive de-population of the Wasatch Front because the lake is a toxic dustbowl, doesn't that free up all that water to go back into the lake?

I would doubt it. Residential/Commercial usage is less than 5% of the total water used. 80% is agriculture and 15% is industrial.

We would have a bigger impact to water usage by buying 2 average alfalfa farms in the GSL watershed, putting the water to the lake, than if we removed all greenery from park strips along the Wasatch Front.

There was a study a couple of years ago that stated if water was turned off to all residential and commercial uses along the Wasatch Front, it would have a negligible impact to the GSL water level. Cutting Alfalfa usage by 50% would see 40% more water flowing to the lake than today.

Effectively, the best way to tackle the water issue is with the biggest water uses.

We should encourage farmers to grow less water intensive crops. We should also outlaw the growing of grains, except maybe corn, within the State. The only thing that would have a bigger impact to water usage would be for the State, Cities, Counties, or private individuals purchasing farmland + the water rights and letting the fields go fallow and diverting the water to the lake.

This though is considered a non-starter for many in the Legislature as it would hit the heart of the Rural communities. If you don't believe me, just look at what the Legislators say. While saying everything is on the table, they recommend that people water less, remove grass from yards or switch to water wise plants. They very rarely mention agriculture and when they do, they talk about using better watering techniques and technology, not changing what is grown.

It is because of this, I can see some Cities/Counties and private parties buying up farmland/water rights to ensure that the water gets to the lake. I know that this idea has already been talked about by some parties. Even the State has quietly looked into this option (paying farmers not to grow while not losing water rights).

[Reeder113]

Originally Posted by msbutah

My Swiftian take: if there is a massive de-population of the Wasatch Front because the lake is a toxic dustbowl, doesn't that free up all that water to go back into the lake?

No. Because residential water use only accounts for 10% of our entire usage - 6% outdoor, and 4% indoor. Most of our water is going to alfalfa. Which means that whenever a residential development gets built on what was previously agricultural land, we're actually SAVING a significant amount of water per acre on that particular land.

If every resident in the entire state cut their water usage by 100%, it would barely have any impact at all on our overall water usage.

[msbutah]

(it was a joke, albeit a bad one)

[TheGeographer]

Originally Posted by delts145

Geographer, You seem to be one of the forum members with considerable life focus on this topic of Water Infrastructure. I created a Mountain West Thread on the topic. Please share any pertinent information you have on the latest rounds of the Central Utah Water Project, whatever congressional members are proposing in D.C. etc., etc.,...

Thanks Delts! I am interested in environmental issues and how they relate to development. I will take a look at the thread you created and chime in with any pertinent info I have.

[felixg]

Originally Posted by Atlas

Nonsense. The Utah counter-culture is unique and has elements that would not be recognized in a more broadly considered counter-culture, much less the general American culture. Ex-Mormon angst is a real thing.

idk man I think feeling edgy about drinking alcohol and wearing normal clothing is pretty unique to the exmormon experience

Like you said, there is definitely a more broadly countercultural presence here, take salt lake’s big hardcore scene — but I think that really just comes with being a large American city, nothing to do with the Mormon church, which is really sad given the amount of repressed anger and sexuality we probably have compared to other places. You’d think all of that would manifest into something more active and culturally distinct

[Old&New]

Originally Posted by felixg

...which is really sad given the amount of repressed anger and sexuality we probably have compared to other places. You’d think all of that would manifest into something more active and culturally distinct

It's probably not manifesting much since many people in this camp just leave the State entirely.

[Rileybo]

Originally Posted by Atlas

More great downtown aerials by Scott Taylor:






Nonsense. The Utah counter-culture is unique and has elements that would not be recognized in a more broadly considered counter-culture, much less the general American culture. Ex-Mormon angst is a real thing.



In the midst of the best winter in 20 years, I find it hard to take hyperbolic statements like this seriously. The lake level will recover a bit this year and people won't stop being concerned about it. These things are not linear: if the situation becomes more dire than it is now, the legislature will take more extreme measures. Do you think the Church wants the lake to dry up?

I’m not an ex Mormon. Not antsy either. Also, are you implying that since it happened to actually be winter this one year the last two decades and a half of piss poor winters are not a concern?

Also, the church clearly doesn’t benefit from no lake, but they aren’t taking any action to show they care. Nada, zilch.

[Reeder113]

Originally Posted by Rileybo

I’m not an ex Mormon. Not antsy either. Also, are you implying that since it happened to actually be winter this one year the last two decades and a half of piss poor winters are not a concern?

Two decades and a half of poor winters?

Did you forget about 2019, 2017, 2011, 2009, 2008, 2006, and 2005? We received well above-average SWE during those seasons.

[Reeder113]

Originally Posted by Rileybo

Also, the church clearly doesn’t benefit from no lake, but they aren’t taking any action to show they care. Nada, zilch.

Not true in the slightest.

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2022...ch-highlights/

Also, even if they cut their water usage by 100%, it wouldn't make a dent. Agriculture is what swallows up over 80% of our water usage.