Corktown Plaza Redevelopment | 91m | 27 & 14 fl | Approved - Page 6

Dr Awesomesauce · #**101** Posted **Oct 27, 2020, 11:28 PM**

Not a great fan of high-rise apartments - yes, it's ironic that I insist on lurking around the various threads of Skyscraperpage, it's true. But the idea that they must be a certain height because of the Escarpment is one of the most incoherent arguments I've ever heard. It's the sort of proposition that a 12-year-old might put forth in a social studies paper - appropriate for the times, however.

Despite the obvious stupidity of these protests, it seems to be a very common complaint. I lived in another city some time ago where a few noisy residents objected to a proposed development that was to be sited next to the river. 'If this development goes ahead', they posited, 'how will we be able to see the river?' (from several blocks away).

These (learning disabled) people never seem able to come up with the solution that, perhaps, if they want to see the river (or the Escarpment), that GOING TO IT might serve them best!

ScreamingViking · #**102** Posted **Oct 28, 2020, 1:01 AM**

I think for a lot of people it's about change. They're happy with the way things are, and don't see any need for anything in their local environment to evolve.

I get that. Change isn't easy.

But the fear of what that change may bring might be the core issue. And there has been much negative change in this city, and that may enhance the fear.

City planning is trying to balance the growth with the opinions of those most affected by the growth. Also not easy.

This alteration in the proposal may seem like a step backward for many of us tuned in to this forum, but is may also be a good compromise, and lead to more compromises in future proposals.

TheRitsman · #**103** Posted **Oct 28, 2020, 1:43 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce

Not a great fan of high-rise apartments - yes, it's ironic that I insist on lurking around the various threads of Skyscraperpage, it's true.

I have had these musings as well, but honestly, despite the technical name of the forum, it is more than obvious it is mostly a development forum. I mean there is literally a suburban section on this forum, and on the main forum sections there are sports and culture sections.

Furthermore, it seems each city seems to do as it pleases with these types of forums. I've checked other cities and honestly think that Hamilton has one of the best organizations, and higher regular user groups. I find Toronto's surprisingly lacking organization and actual use.

lachlanholmes · #**104** Posted **Oct 28, 2020, 3:04 AM**

Agreed drpgq - I am dying to know who exactly is the driving force behind the height limit, and I've never gotten a straight answer.

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Agreed with TheRitsman that its unfortunate to lose commercial space here - I believe it's been previously stated in the thread that City staff didn't want commercial space here, apparently due to travel speed on John, and I honestly don't get it. The existing sidewalks on John street are already incredibly wide AND the City is requiring a 3 metre road widening on John so it would get even larger when all is said and done.

This is really one of the most prime locations in the city to locate mixed-use podium retail given all the characteristics that would allow it to thrive.

It's a big drop too - from 2,157 sq.m. to 930 sq.m.

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I'm not sold on the landscaping (courtyard) as is - I'm happy that they're proposing nice, attractive pavers instead of plain concrete or asphalt as is so common, but nearly all the walls facing in to the courtyard are solid. There's not going to be much (anything?) to draw people in to the courtyard unless you live in the complex.

The previously landscape plan wasn't great either, but it did two things a lot better in my opinion:

- It emphasized an east/west circulation, which is a lot more urban and pedestrian than the north/south circulation in the new landscape plan. It had room for improvement of course, especially the rather pinched entrance off of John street which also wasn't accessible (two flights of stairs down to the courtyard).

- It had a single parking garage entrance rather than two. Also, as an aside, while the unit count has decreased from 792 to 769, the residential parking spaces have gone up from 351 to 462, which seems unfortunate in a location so well served by transit.

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I suppose it might have been prudent to hold off on commenting on the architecture, considering we only see the massing at the moment. However, it has been my observation that when massing gets tortured into such odd shapes the architecture usually suffers. I'll wait and see and eat my words on that if the architecture turns out well...

Corktowner · #**105** Posted **Oct 28, 2020, 1:52 PM**

I could be wrong, but I don't think it's true that city staff were opposed to retail in this location. I know they had concerns about retail for the Metro condos project up the street, because of the speed and volume of traffic coming down from the mountain and also because the location is a bit peripheral to the neighbourhood and doesn't have a lot of foot traffic. The Corktown Plaza site, though, is a totally logical spot for retail—as evidenced by the fact that it's been retail for decades!

I attended Slate's community meetings for this project, and the thing that generated by far the most enthusiasm from residents was the possibility of a proper grocery store, which Corktown badly needs. The original design had a large retail space (1,400 sq m according to my notes) that was designed to attract a grocery store. That's now gone, which is a huge loss. I wonder if the developers reached out to the major grocery chains and found that no one is interested in opening a store in this location?

The massing and landscape plan are also a big downgrade from the original. All in all, this is a pretty disappointing turn of events.

lachlanholmes · #**106** Posted **Feb 4, 2021, 11:42 PM**

Got the public meeting notice in the mail on Monday or Tuesday. This one is going to Planning on the 16th.

Hawrylyshyn · #**107** Posted **Feb 14, 2021, 7:54 PM**

Can someone pull the pictures? (I'm on my phone). There's updates renderings for the new scale!

"Massive residential-commercial complex planned for Corktown Plaza | The Bay Observer" https://bayobserver.ca/2021/02/14/ma...orktown-plaza/

ericmacm · #**108** Posted **Feb 14, 2021, 8:04 PM**

I've got them. It looks nice:

TheHonestMaple · #**109** Posted **Feb 14, 2021, 8:05 PM**

Looks great, can't imagine this one getting rejected. Will really help the revitalisation of Corktown. Wonder when construction will get started if it's approved on Tuesday?

SteelTown · #**110** Posted **Feb 15, 2021, 3:46 AM**

Staff is recommending approval

https://pub-hamilton.escribemeetings...nglish&Item=25

TheHonestMaple · #**111** Posted **Feb 15, 2021, 4:53 PM**

It's a bit of a shame they couldn't incorporate the existing house into the design somehow.

TheRitsman · #**112** Posted **Feb 15, 2021, 6:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

It's a bit of a shame they couldn't incorporate the existing house into the design somehow.

I will forever miss that beautiful house.

Chronamut · #**113** Posted **Feb 16, 2021, 3:48 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

It's a bit of a shame they couldn't incorporate the existing house into the design somehow.

sigh.

Crapht · #**114** Posted **Feb 16, 2021, 3:58 PM**

When it comes down to it they could have incorporated both houses into the development but the truth is they chose not to.

craftbeerdad · #**115** Posted **Feb 16, 2021, 7:14 PM**

Thank goodness, Hamilton can transition a giant parking lot with a tiny plaza to some dense housing two blocks from the GO Train station, what an idea!

Also this: "One of the letters from neighbours commenting on the project noted that plans call for a grocery store in the retail portion of the complex."

How hard is it that this wasn't blatantly obvious this was required for an influx of ~2000 people. Imagine the amount of people who can walk two blocks, grab some groceries, maybe even a beer and head home!

craftbeerdad · #**116** Posted **Feb 16, 2021, 7:19 PM**

Which is the beautiful house? Subway house or the house with no back yard?

I've never seen any activity at either.

Hawrylyshyn · #**117** Posted **Feb 16, 2021, 7:21 PM**

Did it get approved?

TheRitsman · #**118** Posted **Feb 16, 2021, 7:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by craftbeerdad

Thank goodness, Hamilton can transition a giant parking lot with a tiny plaza to some dense housing two blocks from the GO Train station, what an idea!

Also this: "One of the letters from neighbours commenting on the project noted that plans call for a grocery store in the retail portion of the complex."

How hard is it that this wasn't blatantly obvious this was required for an influx of ~2000 people. Imagine the amount of people who can walk two blocks, grab some groceries, maybe even a beer and head home!

1) A grocery store doesn't need to be a big box one

2) There isn't really a grocery store within walking distance to most of Corktown. There are thousands of people living around this area with no car that are required to can to a decent grocery store. Nations also doesn't serve the purpose of a regular grocery store as they stock a lot of specialty products and miss a lot of basic ones, and it quite a long walk for many Corktown residents.

craftbeerdad · #**119** Posted **Feb 16, 2021, 9:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRitsman

1) A grocery store doesn't need to be a big box one

2) There isn't really a grocery store within walking distance to most of Corktown. There are thousands of people living around this area with no car that are required to can to a decent grocery store. Nations also doesn't serve the purpose of a regular grocery store as they stock a lot of specialty products and miss a lot of basic ones, and it quite a long walk for many Corktown residents.

While a big box store isn't required, hopefully it will be an affordable local and not a fancy grocery store that wouldn't really help fulfill the demographic.

I would have thought Corktown should have had one already considering the amount of people who live in the vicinity and proximity to the GO Train station.

SteelTown · #**120** Posted **Feb 16, 2021, 10:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawrylyshyn

Did it get approved?

Yes.

Councillors rezone Corktown plaza for proposed 27-storey development
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...ncil-1.5915446

Hamilton's planning committee has approved a rezoning application for the lands of the Corktown Plaza to build a development that proposes 769 dwelling units across a 27-storey building, 14-storey mixed use building, and attached eight-storey building.

At top of mind for residents, said Coun. Jason Farr (Ward 2), is whether the approximate 930 square metres planned for commercial space would include a much needed, and highly desired, spot for groceries.

"This is a bit of a food desert," Farr said in the planning committee meeting on Tuesday.

Farr said council isn't able to mandate what kind of retail goes into the available space. A minimum amount of retail space also wasn't part of the city's amendment that passed.

Councillors voted unanimously in favour of rezoning the lands.