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  #5481  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2021, 4:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
A lot of people apparently. First of all, I’ll never get the intense hostility to wearing a mask. It doesn’t bother me at all.
That's you. I could not imagine spending several thousand on a cruise where you have to wear a shitty uncomfortable mask and social distance the entire time. Plus, they've scaled back the buffets and pools which are a huge draw for a lot of cruisers. Sure, some people will be enthusiastic but others are going to take a hard pass until things let up more.
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  #5482  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2021, 7:18 AM
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That's you. I could not imagine spending several thousand on a cruise where you have to wear a shitty uncomfortable mask and social distance the entire time. Plus, they've scaled back the buffets and pools which are a huge draw for a lot of cruisers. Sure, some people will be enthusiastic but others are going to take a hard pass until things let up more.
Again: There are apparently enough people willing to accept the conditions that will exist to fill the ships if the CDC will let them sail.

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Royal Caribbean Reports Strong Cruise Bookings, Higher Pricing
February 22, 2021
Aaron Saunders
Contributor

(2:15 p.m. EST) -- Cruisers hoping for rock-bottom pricing when cruise operations resume shouldn't get their hopes up. During its fourth-quarter 2020 earnings call today, Royal Caribbean Group executives noted that bookings for 2021 and 2022 remain strong, with prices higher, on average, than in 2019.
https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5904/
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  #5483  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2021, 7:21 AM
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No surprise there.
I don't know. I got a lot of blow-back here every time I predicted it would happen sooner than people think. And guess what: A lot of those employees WANT TO come back. The office has a social as well as work function for many.
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  #5484  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2021, 1:05 PM
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I think there is truth to this and the Canadians who really don't like it and would be more influential here tend to relocate to the US or elsewhere. There are strong selection effects in Canada.

Ontario is the worst place in Canada right now with a bunch of weird restrictions they had to walk back and lots of cases. Many other provinces have had a mix of not so heavy restrictions and lower than average covid risk.

The restrictions don't bother me so much now that we have vaccines. I don't get the people who were skeptical that vaccines would be developed and yet also bullish on lockdowns. There is also a kind of "immunity denialism" that is not talked about much. The media barely acknowledge that people have resistance to covid after their immune system successfully fights it off.

I also think the notion of "lockdowns" is somewhat misleading not, as most say, because the lockdowns would work if only they were harsher, but because there never was a plan to lock everything down and have people come and deliver us food in space suits. People still needed to go to work, live with roommates and older relatives, etc. Around here it feels like governments have tried to draw attention away from this by blaming covid cases on elective "bad behaviour" like partying. As if the poorest people around here are all partying it up in ski chalets in the weekend and that's why they are getting covid. It has nothing to do with them working as line cooks or in chicken plants or living with 5 other roommates. Poorer countries had no hope whatsoever of doing society-wide lockdowns.
Yes. And because of this there was no point to even trying. For example it is pointless to make “non-exempt” travellers quarantine for 10 days when entering the U.K. when almost 40% of people entering the country are exempt from this requirement (and everyone has to test negative). It’s just PR nonsense for the paranoid types to show that your government is protecting you.
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  #5485  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2021, 1:07 PM
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I just see it as, there are people who can adapt, and there are people who can't.
Adapt to what? I would never want to adapt to this social distancing bullshit. Maybe there are just people who can adapt to the virus (by mounting an immune response) and people who can’t.
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  #5486  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2021, 1:49 PM
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Adapt to what? I would never want to adapt to this social distancing bullshit. Maybe there are just people who can adapt to the virus (by mounting an immune response) and people who can’t.
Adapt to the fact that reality as we know it is extremely fragile and unpredictable and throwing tantrums when faced with relatively small hardships to protect the greater good simply because it temporarily interferes with the extremely comfortable way of life to which one has become accustomed is how a petulant child acts and not an adult with full agency of their emotions.

Wearing a mask and social distancing pales in comparison to the things humans have dealt with in the past--we are just extremely coddled now. Many think the way things are is the way they always have been and always will be, completely ignorant of the fact that the comfort we all enjoy is a couple of generations old. The ironic thing is that if we had all just been careful, wore the little masks and social distanced we'd probably have been enjoying some level of normal for the second half of 2020. But some people's terror at the idea that the bubble they'd created for themselves in the 21st century wasn't impenetrable ruined it for everyone; their little acts of defiance against the universe throwing a curveball (based entirely on fear of the unknown or how to adapt to rapid change) cost a lot in real and cultural capital.


I always think about my ex-girlfriend, who's parents had sent her to the United States ALONE at 19 years old from Nepal to escape the communist uprising there in the early 2000s. She arrived in Chicago not knowing a soul and with no experience of the culture. Her family had been well off in Nepal, but even the well off in Nepal were still living in a third world country. She enrolled in community college for her student visa then transferred to a larger university, got a job and an apartment and did everything in such a way that by the time we met nearly 10 years later she was "westernized" enough that I had no idea of her background for the first few weeks that I knew her.

Anyway, her resilience always amazed me--all the things big and small that she had figured out so totally on her own (student loans, getting an apartment, navigating the workforce (she was a financial analyst for a major trade organization), etc.) and never complaining about anything. What I'll always remember was a time she developed a serious and mysterious allergic-type reaction that was causing her face to swell up terribly and turn red and patchy. It had been lasting for months, and none of the specialists were having luck figuring it out. I was so concerned for her, because in my experience that would cause most women (and men) in their late 20s navigating the professional world a lot of grief and frustration, but she shouldered it unflinchingly. She laughed off my concern and thought it was so curious, I mean it's just skin right?

But that was the mindset of someone who had experienced actual hardship and knew how to deal with it. A small inconvenience that temporarily interrupted her equilibrium was not worth getting upset about, just do what you need to do until it's solved.

Last edited by Handro; Apr 21, 2021 at 2:02 PM.
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  #5487  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2021, 2:30 PM
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^

The irony of you lecturing us about the hardship of immigrants. Im betting you just like to pick and choose which complaints are “whiny” and which are “legit”
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  #5488  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2021, 2:37 PM
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
^

The irony of you lecturing us about the hardship of immigrants. Im betting you just like to pick and choose which complaints are “whiny” and which are “legit”
What irony? And what lecture... do you mean anecdote? Because those aren't synonyms. Truly don't understand what points you are trying to make...
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  #5489  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2021, 2:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
I don't know. I got a lot of blow-back here every time I predicted it would happen sooner than people think. And guess what: A lot of those employees WANT TO come back. The office has a social as well as work function for many.
At the end of the day it's about having more options and flexibility right? Take one thing away (work from office) and people complain about not seeing coworkers, being cooped up at home, distracted by kids, feeling restless, etc. Take remote work away completely and people complain about having to commute into the office, annoying coworkers, waking up early and getting home late, etc. I think a hybrid model, where you go into the office a few days a week and work remotely the other days, which tech was pretty much already doing as you know, would be ideal for industries that can manage that.
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  #5490  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2021, 3:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Handro View Post
Truly don't understand what points you are trying to make...
Nor will you ever

Immigrant hardship as a counter-point to the complaining of Americans across the spectrum is only acceptable within certain cherry picked boundaries....with people like yourself being the arbiter of such

I've been at SSP long enough to know how that thinking goes....
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  #5491  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2021, 3:11 PM
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Nor will you ever
Yea, because it's convoluted and bad and you can't explain it, I'm guessing.

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Immigrant hardship as a counter-point to the complaining of Americans across the spectrum
It was a personal anecdote that happened to be about an immigrant that highlighted the larger point that most of the people who are so angry they need to wear a mask are very fragile. I'm sure someone could tell a similar story about a born-and-raised American who has overcome obstacles and developed a clear-eyed view of the tumultuousness and unpredictability of life.

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is only acceptable within certain cherry picked boundaries....
Lol, like what?

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with people like yourself being the arbiter of such
And who are people like me, faceless internet stranger?

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I've been at SSP long enough to know how that thinking goes....
And we're all very impressed. However, this forum plays a non-existent role in my identity so I don't know why you would think being a poster here would give you some grand insight into my personality.
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  #5492  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2021, 4:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Handro View Post
It was a personal anecdote that happened to be about an immigrant that highlighted the larger point that most of the people who are so angry they need to wear a mask are very fragile. I'm sure someone could tell a similar story about a born-and-raised American who has overcome obstacles and developed a clear-eyed view of the tumultuousness and unpredictability of life.
.
I agree with you. I keep trying to imagine how the people here whining about masks and distancing would have coped with real hardship like so many had to endure in major wars or the Great Depression. Even my generation had a military draft that sent my friends to Vietnam from which some didn’t come back. Compared to all this sort of thing, what we’ve had to endure over the last year, as unpleasant as it has been, is not real hardship.

That said, it’s fair to debate what’s in the real interests of us all and which among the various rules governments have tried to impose have been truly beneficial, both in terms of beating back the spread of the virus and the general welfare of people, and which have not or even been counterproductive. And things change of course. Now that we have effective treatments and vaccines, a lot less restriction is justifiable but on the other hand the vaccines raise the argument of to what degree society and government should distinguish between those who been vaccinated and those who’ve refused to be (once anyone who wants a vaccine can get it). If we want to fully reopen indoor entertsinment venues, for example, it would be so much safer if vaccination were a requirement for admission so should we impose such a requirement or is that too much government power. How about if the private venues themselves do it on their own—should it be allowable?
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  #5493  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2021, 4:54 PM
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Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
Adapt to what? I would never want to adapt to this social distancing bullshit. Maybe there are just people who can adapt to the virus (by mounting an immune response) and people who can’t.
It's bullshit to stand a few steps away from somebody? It's not adapting it's... following the rules till "mission accomplished" and there must be more than that, because that's literally the easiest thing of all time. The impacts of social distancing like less seats in restaurants or theaters? Ok, valid complaints for the owners.
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Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
I agree with you. I keep trying to imagine how the people here whining about masks and distancing would have coped with real hardship like so many had to endure in major wars or the Great Depression. Even my generation had a military draft that sent my friends to Vietnam from which some didn’t come back. Compared to all this sort of thing, what we’ve had to endure over the last year, as unpleasant as it has been, is not real hardship.
They can't handle it and take it out on their fellow citizens by not following the rules set forth by public health. The worst part is, it's a thin piece of fabric or whatever and people can't handle it.
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  #5494  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2021, 4:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
Again: There are apparently enough people willing to accept the conditions that will exist to fill the ships if the CDC will let them sail.


https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5904/
Or a lot of people too stupid to realize how disappointed they are going to be.
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  #5495  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2021, 4:56 PM
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Or a lot of people too stupid to realize how disappointed they are going to be.
Everybody who disagrees with you on any subject is “stupid” according to you. We knew that.
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  #5496  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2021, 4:56 PM
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It's bullshit to stand a few steps away from somebody, and it's not adapting it's following the rules till "mission accomplished". There must be more than that, because that's literally the easiest thing of all time. The impacts of social distancing like less seats in restaurants or theaters?
Mission is accomplished. We have a vaccine and it has been given to the vulnerable. That’s as good as it’s going to get or needs to be. We aren’t going to eliminate Covid.
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There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." - Isaac Asimov
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  #5497  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2021, 5:08 PM
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Mission is accomplished. We have a vaccine and it has been given to the vulnerable. That’s as good as it’s going to get or needs to be. We aren’t going to eliminate Covid.
You talk and think about Covid like it was from outer space. There are lots of viruses that have been around forever and used to ravage mankind. Even when I was a child almost every kid got measles, mumps and chicken pox. The unfortunate got polio. And before the invention of vaccination (actual vaccination—using vaccinia virus) smallpox was common.

SARS-CoV-2 can become like all these: Still around but limited to rare outbreaks that can be limited in scope with public health measures.

That’s the goal in the developed world. In the developing world, it’s likely it will be a disease that most people get in childhood when the symptoms are mild and by the time they are adults are immune. Developed world travellers to those endemic regions will need shots first.

The problem right now is that when the virus first came on the scene there was a world full of susceptible adults. That will not be the case in a few years in most of the world.
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  #5498  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2021, 5:12 PM
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Mission is accomplished. We have a vaccine and it has been given to the vulnerable.
Here's the thing, everybody is at risk of PASC and 1/3 of people are at risk of developing neurological disorders. Nobody on the forum has been able to downplay it in this thread or in the CE, so I challenge you to go after the neurological disorders and say that it's not a big deal.
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That’s as good as it’s going to get or needs to be. We aren’t going to eliminate Covid.
Every day more Americans get their shot, so it's going to get even better....especially in CA.
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  #5499  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2021, 6:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
Everybody who disagrees with you on any subject is “stupid” according to you. We knew that.
The people who post selfie's in masks and wear them in the car or outside...will be the ones lining up to take a cruise right now.
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  #5500  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2021, 6:25 PM
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The people who post selfie's in masks and wear them in the car or outside...will be the ones lining up to take a cruise right now.
I think the CDC wanted old people to wear their mask from door to door, and might recommend it a little deeper in the wording for everybody. I already don't wear them into places that took down their signage , but I should keep it in my pocket in case somebody inside wants me to wear it!
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