HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Mountain West


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #12061  
Old Posted May 23, 2019, 3:49 PM
twister244 twister244 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,845
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12062  
Old Posted May 23, 2019, 4:05 PM
mishko27 mishko27 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
I-25 traffic jams are shifting northern Colorado transit plans into high gear.
MAY 23, 2019 By Dan England - Colorado Sun

In-depth but easy to read article about Bustang's success and I-25's expansion and future transportation.
They talk about light rail between Loveland and Denver, and its $1.8 billion price tag.

1.) Wouldn't commuter rail make so much more sense seeing the distance it would cover? Or is this like all of the Denver media talking about A, B and G lines as light rail, even though they are not?

2.) What is this $1.8 billion plan and where can one find it?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12063  
Old Posted May 23, 2019, 4:31 PM
TakeFive's Avatar
TakeFive TakeFive is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,556
Quote:
Originally Posted by mishko27 View Post
They talk about light rail between Loveland and Denver, and its $1.8 billion price tag.

1.) Wouldn't commuter rail make so much more sense seeing the distance it would cover? Or is this like all of the Denver media talking about A, B and G lines as light rail, even though they are not?

2.) What is this $1.8 billion plan and where can one find it?
Yeah, I assume they'd use diesel powered commuter trains. I'm also assuming that the $1.8 billion is based on some per mile guestimate.

There's always interest from some corners in this type of option and I'd agree it would be nice. Presumably they will try to better define what would be needed along with a better guestimate of costs.
__________________
Cool... Denver has reached puberty.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12064  
Old Posted May 24, 2019, 1:28 AM
seventwenty's Avatar
seventwenty seventwenty is offline
I took a bus pic, CIRRUS
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Soon to be banned
Posts: 1,697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirrus View Post
RTD opened a light rail extension and nobody in this thread about Denver transportation even mentioned it, because y'all are too busy tilting at random windmills.
I didn't. I kept my streak of not taking photos for you alive.
__________________
The happy & obtuse bro.

"Of course you're right." Cirrus
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12065  
Old Posted May 24, 2019, 3:17 AM
Darius C Darius C is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by twister244 View Post
Not sure how the developer can get away with this. Here is the contract between Denver and Great Hall Partners:
http://denver.legistar.com/View.ashx...B-4ED8CF1F3592
Read section 5.1 on page 19 (page 34 of the pdf), particularly subsection 5.1.1.1.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12066  
Old Posted May 24, 2019, 9:36 AM
TakeFive's Avatar
TakeFive TakeFive is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,556
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darius C View Post
Not sure how the developer can get away with this. Here is the contract between Denver and Great Hall Partners:
http://denver.legistar.com/View.ashx...B-4ED8CF1F3592
Read section 5.1 on page 19 (page 34 of the pdf), particularly subsection 5.1.1.1.
Don't believe the headlines or a one-sided view of things. CBS broke the story and interviewed Mayor Hancock. Listening to Hanock's response puts a whole different spin on things.
__________________
Cool... Denver has reached puberty.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12067  
Old Posted May 24, 2019, 2:21 PM
wong21fr's Avatar
wong21fr wong21fr is online now
Reluctant Hobbesian
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Denver
Posts: 13,149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirrus View Post
RTD opened a light rail extension and nobody in this thread about Denver transportation even mentioned it, because y'all are too busy tilting at random windmills.
Yawn. It was even more boring than the R Line opening. But great for those out of district Castle Rock bastards to drive in to the end of line and then hop on the train.
__________________
"You don't strike, you just go to work everyday and do your job real half-ass. That's the American way!" -Homer Simpson

All of us who are concerned for peace and triumph of reason and justice must be keenly aware how small an influence reason and honest good will exert upon events in the political field. ~Albert Einstein

Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12068  
Old Posted May 27, 2019, 8:34 AM
TakeFive's Avatar
TakeFive TakeFive is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,556
ARTA to break ground this summer

https://theaurorahighlands.com/aerot...-on-the-table/
Quote:
This month, in an unassuming room on the fifth floor of the Aurora Municipal complex, a group of government leaders, attorneys and underwriters met over a lunch of gyros and Greek salad and finally put up money — $22.5 million to start — to back up all the chatter.

The Aerotropolis Regional Transportation Authority voted May 17 to issue bonds toward what will amount to $200 million in transportation improvements over the next dozen years — including new interchanges on E-470 and Interstate 70 and a major north-south thoroughfare to rival Peña Boulevard — in a vast swath of mostly vacant land south of DIA.
What comes first?
Quote:
The money is scheduled to drop into the authority’s account in June, and work on a new connection of yet-to-be-built 38th Avenue to E-470 will commence almost immediately thereafter.
What say you Adams County?
Quote:
Adams County Commissioner Steve O’Dorisio is one of the authority’s five voting members. He said the authority is “fulfilling the vision of voters in 1988,” when the original annexation agreement was struck between Denver and Adams County.

“We have to make sure the development doesn’t just occur along Peña Boulevard, but in other parts of the aerotropolis as well,” O’Dorisio said. “This creates jobs, adds to the housing supply and provides new commercial corridors.”
__________________
Cool... Denver has reached puberty.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12069  
Old Posted May 27, 2019, 12:29 PM
bunt_q's Avatar
bunt_q bunt_q is online now
Provincial Bumpkin
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 13,201
Quote:
Originally Posted by wong21fr View Post
Yawn. It was even more boring than the R Line opening. But great for those out of district Castle Rock bastards to drive in to the end of line and then hop on the train.
It’s an extension into a field. Close enough to be useful for tech center commuting - which few will do, because it’s on the wrong side of the highway. And getting very, very far for a downtown slow-motion welcome-to-RTD-light-rail commute. 45 mph has never felt so slow. Traffic is going to have to get a lot worse before that makes sense. Which it will, but for now, I’m just not sure the purpose of the extensions, other than as yet another vanity play for yet another suburban government dreaming of a new downtown that can now claim a train of its own.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12070  
Old Posted May 27, 2019, 12:38 PM
bunt_q's Avatar
bunt_q bunt_q is online now
Provincial Bumpkin
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 13,201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darius C View Post
Not sure how the developer can get away with this. Here is the contract between Denver and Great Hall Partners:
http://denver.legistar.com/View.ashx...B-4ED8CF1F3592
Read section 5.1 on page 19 (page 34 of the pdf), particularly subsection 5.1.1.1.
To answer your question, you need the Appendices as well.

This is the big news in town, not the light rail opening, I’d say.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12071  
Old Posted May 28, 2019, 9:58 PM
TakeFive's Avatar
TakeFive TakeFive is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,556
Nevada is #1; Arizona is #10; Colorado is #20; New Mexico is #30
Must be something about the Four Corners states (except Utah come in 2nd)?

Best States for transportation

U.S. News and World Report uses four categories to rate states: Commute Time; Public Transit Usage; Road Quality; Bridge Quality.
__________________
Cool... Denver has reached puberty.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12072  
Old Posted May 28, 2019, 10:06 PM
CherryCreek's Avatar
CherryCreek CherryCreek is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Denver
Posts: 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
Yeah, I assume they'd use diesel powered commuter trains. I'm also assuming that the $1.8 billion is based on some per mile guestimate.

There's always interest from some corners in this type of option and I'd agree it would be nice. Presumably they will try to better define what would be needed along with a better guestimate of costs.
Ask, and ye shall receive.

https://www.cpr.org/news/story/cdot-...eeds-to-happen


"The Colorado Department of Transportation announced Tuesday that it’s soliciting bids to study passenger rail service from Fort Collins to Trinidad.

CDOT and the Southwest Chief/Front Range Passenger Rail Commission, which the legislature created in 2017, say the study will explore different options to relieve congestion along the quickly growing Interstate 25 corridor.

“To meet the growing needs of our state, Colorado needs a robust, energy efficient, sustainable transportation system that incorporates different modes of travel and provides more choices for the movement of people and goods,” Shoshana Lew, CDOT’s executive director, said in a statement.

Any new system would be a massive undertaking, with coordination needed from local municipalities, freight railroads, existing transit services like Amtrak and RTD — and, of course, a lot of money. The study will explore possible routes, capital and operating costs, and other factors."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12073  
Old Posted May 28, 2019, 11:11 PM
mishko27 mishko27 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by CherryCreek View Post
Ask, and ye shall receive.

https://www.cpr.org/news/story/cdot-...eeds-to-happen


"The Colorado Department of Transportation announced Tuesday that it’s soliciting bids to study passenger rail service from Fort Collins to Trinidad.

CDOT and the Southwest Chief/Front Range Passenger Rail Commission, which the legislature created in 2017, say the study will explore different options to relieve congestion along the quickly growing Interstate 25 corridor.

“To meet the growing needs of our state, Colorado needs a robust, energy efficient, sustainable transportation system that incorporates different modes of travel and provides more choices for the movement of people and goods,” Shoshana Lew, CDOT’s executive director, said in a statement.

Any new system would be a massive undertaking, with coordination needed from local municipalities, freight railroads, existing transit services like Amtrak and RTD — and, of course, a lot of money. The study will explore possible routes, capital and operating costs, and other factors."
Oh, this better be a good plan (although, no clue how they would go through Denver, seeing as Union Station is not a through station). I am ready to campaign for some rail, lol.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12074  
Old Posted May 29, 2019, 1:33 PM
trubador trubador is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by CherryCreek View Post
Ask, and ye shall receive.

https://www.cpr.org/news/story/cdot-...eeds-to-happen


"The Colorado Department of Transportation announced Tuesday that it’s soliciting bids to study passenger rail service from Fort Collins to Trinidad.

CDOT and the Southwest Chief/Front Range Passenger Rail Commission, which the legislature created in 2017, say the study will explore different options to relieve congestion along the quickly growing Interstate 25 corridor.

“To meet the growing needs of our state, Colorado needs a robust, energy efficient, sustainable transportation system that incorporates different modes of travel and provides more choices for the movement of people and goods,” Shoshana Lew, CDOT’s executive director, said in a statement.

Any new system would be a massive undertaking, with coordination needed from local municipalities, freight railroads, existing transit services like Amtrak and RTD — and, of course, a lot of money. The study will explore possible routes, capital and operating costs, and other factors."
Why do they spend time looking at rail service all the way to Trinidad, why not end in Colorado Springs or Pueblo? Trinidad has a population of less than 10,000, so the ridership is going to be poor and that stretch from Pueblo is a good 80 miles.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12075  
Old Posted May 29, 2019, 3:38 PM
Cirrus's Avatar
Cirrus Cirrus is offline
cities|transit|croissants
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 18,344
^
It's just a study. Studies are practically free. Trinidad makes sense to study for lots of reasons:
  • It makes the study "statewide," giving it more political support (including potentially from traditionally transit-hostile Republicans)
  • Trinidad's direct population is only 10,000, but there's about 50,000 people close enough to use Trinidad and/or Colorado City stops.
  • The experience of some states with state-supported Amtrak route suggests that one of the key benefits and most popular markets for state-level rail is access to the big city from rural areas.
  • Trinidad is where Amtrak's Southwest Chief stops, so it gives you that connection.
  • If you're doing diesel trains on existing tracks, running one or two trains per day to Trinidad wouldn't cost very much. It may well be worth the money.
  • Nothing says you have to run every train to Trinidad. You can do short-turns where most trains end at Pueblo, but a few continue on.
  • There may be good reasons to put a maintenance facility in Trinidad, or something like that.
  • If nothing else, it's always good to have reasonable alternatives that you later disregard. Looking at a variety of options and sussing out what does & doesn't make sense is the entire point of studies.
If they eventually recommend that Trinidad doesn't make sense, that's probably fine. But I think it would be questionable not to at least include it in the feasibility study.
__________________
writing | twitter | flickr | instagram | ssp photo threads

Last edited by Cirrus; May 29, 2019 at 3:54 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12076  
Old Posted May 29, 2019, 4:22 PM
EngiNerd's Avatar
EngiNerd EngiNerd is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Englewood, CO
Posts: 1,998
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirrus View Post
^
It's just a study. Studies are practically free. Trinidad makes sense to study for lots of reasons:
  • It makes the study "statewide," giving it more political support (including potentially from traditionally transit-hostile Republicans)
  • Trinidad's direct population is only 10,000, but there's about 50,000 people close enough to use Trinidad and/or Colorado City stops.
  • The experience of some states with state-supported Amtrak route suggests that one of the key benefits and most popular markets for state-level rail is access to the big city from rural areas.
  • Trinidad is where Amtrak's Southwest Chief stops, so it gives you that connection.
  • If you're doing diesel trains on existing tracks, running one or two trains per day to Trinidad wouldn't cost very much. It may well be worth the money.
  • Nothing says you have to run every train to Trinidad. You can do short-turns where most trains end at Pueblo, but a few continue on.
  • There may be good reasons to put a maintenance facility in Trinidad, or something like that.
  • If nothing else, it's always good to have reasonable alternatives that you later disregard. Looking at a variety of options and sussing out what does & doesn't make sense is the entire point of studies.
If they eventually recommend that Trinidad doesn't make sense, that's probably fine. But I think it would be questionable not to at least include it in the feasibility study.
A station in Trinidad would also pull in riders from Albuquerque.
__________________
"The engineer is the key figure in the material progress of the world. It is his engineering that makes a reality of the potential value of science by translating scientific knowledge into tools, resources, energy and labor to bring them into the service of man. To make contributions of this kind the engineer requires the imagination to visualize the need of society and to appreciate what is possible as well as the technological and broad social age understanding to bring his vision to reality."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12077  
Old Posted May 29, 2019, 5:05 PM
Hatman's Avatar
Hatman Hatman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 1,429
I'm usually a lurker here, but let me interrupt on this topic...
I've always been intrigued by the idea of a Front Range rail service between Trinidad and Denver because it fits two very important roles: 1) It provides valuable local service along an urbanizing corridor, and 2) it adds an important link in Amtrak's national network. A good comparison would be Amtrak's Missouri River Runner that goes between St. Louis and Kansas City. It is almost exactly the length of of the proposed Fort Collins-Trinidad route (280 rail miles), it connects with Amtrak long-distant trains on both ends (connecting Amtrak passengers account for 30% of all River Runner passengers), and it utilizes diesel locomotive-hauled trains running over freight rail tracks. It's ridership isn't all that high (less than 500 passengers per day) but that's not terrible considering there are only 2 round trips per day. Since the 'joint line' south of Denver is famously congested with coal trains, I don't think CDOT will be able to run many more trains than that, at least not without significant investments in capacity (adding/lengthening sidings and double track).
Another comparison could be the Pacific Surfliners, which go between San Diego and San Louis Obispo, via Los Angeles - a station that is also not a through-station. Because trains need to reverse in and out of that station, Caltrans has ordered push-pull versions of the Siemens trainsets used on the Brightline High(er) speed Rail project in Florida:


Another reason I like this comparison is because the Surfliner corridor has been a work-in-progress ever since it was first created, with a governing body called LOSSAN receiving a small but constant amount of funding, allowing them to make continual updates to the corridor infrastructure (bridge replacements, double-track, new sidings, new stations, faster straighter track, etc.). This has allowed for an increase in frequency over the years that has caused ridership to increase. I think that even if a Front Range Rail service starts with only one or two round trips per day, that will be enough to get it established enough for CDOT to justify the cost for improvements to the line allowing even greater frequency. The virtuous cycle.
I think this train line is a very good idea. I just hope that the Amtrak National Network is still in place by the time service begins.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12078  
Old Posted May 29, 2019, 8:05 PM
TakeFive's Avatar
TakeFive TakeFive is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,556
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatman View Post
I just hope that the Amtrak National Network is still in place by the time service begins.
That would seem to be a very good question.

Enjoyed your input.
__________________
Cool... Denver has reached puberty.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12079  
Old Posted May 30, 2019, 2:14 AM
bunt_q's Avatar
bunt_q bunt_q is online now
Provincial Bumpkin
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 13,201
The challenge here will be the simple fact that our freight rail spines are few and mostly at capacity. That’s what this, and every other study, will be about - how much it will cost to buy out freight capacity. We are not the Midwest where there are multiple parallel freight lines. And we have topography. Even six movements a day will cost a mint; that’s the puzzle to sort out for whatever team wins this work. (It’s also what will at least warrant a look at new ROW and new track, though as other have said, we could never afford it.)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12080  
Old Posted May 30, 2019, 5:37 PM
Cirrus's Avatar
Cirrus Cirrus is offline
cities|transit|croissants
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 18,344
^
Agreed.

Anyway, yes, yes, this would be nice.

__________________
writing | twitter | flickr | instagram | ssp photo threads
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Mountain West
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 3:50 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.