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  #381  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2009, 6:38 AM
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It's been like that for years, even back in the late 90s when I started biking to school on a regular basis. Pretty much since the suburban developments in County Park west (I think it was originally called Morningside?) and Sherwood Park get into full steam ahead mode, that intersection has slowed right down.

We also need to do something about the Harbour Expressway and Memorial. I don't like suburban sprawl but this city REALLY needs a six lane road. On Christmas traffic was so bad that buses were running so late, they were early.

Some good news on the Waterfront today:

Quote:
City talks waterfront on Monday
Tb News Source | January 16 2009
http://www.tbsource.com/Localnews/index.asp?cid=115059

Waterfront development is back on the agenda at city council.

On Monday, administration will ask councillors to approve the hiring of a firm to oversee the negotiation process between the city and the private sector developers.

Prince Arthur's landing is being referred to one of the city's largest projects. With it being such an important project, waterfront development committee chair Mark Bentz said it's critical to have experience.

Administration is seeking councils approval to retain the services of Deloitte to act as an advisor to the process of securing partnerships and agreements with the developer. This past summer, council officially gave Manshield and Lauriette Construction the title.

According to the report from city staff coming before council on Monday, Deloitte's fees are not expected to exceed $20,000.

Administration intends to use the advice from the firm when it comes to land development and real estate issues.

The waterfront project is also a major item on the recent infrastructure wish list.

Bentz said with the private sector indicating that they are ready to build in 2010, the land needs to be prepared, which is all shovel ready.

He says site preparation is a multi-million dollar project.
There was also something regarding Lake Superior Place, but I can't find that story.

Quote:
Members of the community are invited to the 2nd Annual General Meeting of Lake Superior Place on Wednesday, January 28, 2009. The meeting will be held at the Prince Arthur Hotel starting at 6:30 p.m. Donna Bain Smith will be the guest speaker - as the lead local consultant she will present an update on the Lake Superior Place Feasibility Study which is underway.

http://www.lakesuperiorplace.org/content/Home/
The plan has changed somewhat since the last time it was revealed (I think we started talking about this in 2004 or 2005?) and they might get started in about four years, that's 2013. Prince Arthur's Landing should start in 2010 (that's the developers' target) so this will probably start once that is finished. I'd like to see them move the rail yard and put in some residential and retail stuff there, start a little village area or something. They probably won't though.

Quote:
Lake Superior Place Gets Support
NetNewsLedger | January 16, 2009
http://netnewsledger.com/index.php?o...2081&Itemid=26

Thunder Bay, ON -- The Ontario Government has stepped up to put $50,000 into the decision making process for Lake Superior Place. Up to now, the efforts have been fuelled by volunteer muscle. “I commend the efforts and goodwill of community volunteers backing this project for their enthusiasm and vision,” said Northern Development and Mines Minister Michael Gravelle, who is also chair of the NOHFC. “The NOHFC can play an important role in taking projects such as this from dream to reality, and I look forward to continue working with Lake Superior Place supporters on this initiative.”

The Northern Ontario Heritage Fund Corporation (NOHFC) is contributing $50,000 to support the decision-making process on future year-round, multi-purpose attractions and amenities on Thunder Bay’s waterfront, specifically the former Pool 6 site. The strategy will look at best uses for the Pool 6 lands, identify the most sustainable combination of activities and revenue streams, and lay the groundwork for attracting private and public sector investment.

The work is spearheaded by the Friends of Lake Superior Place, a community-based coalition of more than 200 volunteers interested in the most attractive use of this piece of the waterfront.

“Developing a business case is a major step forward in assessing the potential for the later phases of this development,” said Thunder Bay-Atikokan MPP Bill Mauro. “Our funding will help keep the planning moving forward.”

Last edited by vid; Jan 17, 2009 at 7:28 AM.
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  #382  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2009, 9:16 PM
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Infrastructure Funding Wish-List for Thunder Bay.

Quote:
City, institutions asking feds for $420M for infrastructure
Tb News Source | January 21, 2009
http://www.tbsource.com/Localnews/index.asp?cid=115177

Officials from the City of Thunder Bay and several of its most important institutions will have their eyes keenly trained on Ottawa on Tuesday, eagerly awaiting news about nearly $420 million in infrastructure projects they’ve asked the federal government to pay for as part of its expected economic stimulus package.

Municipalities across Canada have submitted applications to the Ministry of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, hoping for their fair share of as much as $30 billion the Conservative government could make available to help turn around the country’s struggling financial performance.

Though the criteria have not been fully set, it is known that all projects must be shovel-ready in 2009.

Mayor Lynn Peterson, whose administration has submitted a $92 million wish list to the feds, covering everything from waterfront development to paving, said she thinks the city is in a good position to receive a large portion of the requested funds. But, she cautioned, there are still too many variables in play to start counting on the funds just yet.

"We’re all ready to go," Peterson said. "We have no idea of the amount, whether there’s going to be categories, how the money will flow. All of that is yet to be determined. The good news is we have a ready list."

Other applicants include Lakehead University, which is looking for close to $200 million for three projects, including Nord 21 and replacement of the burned out Braun building, St. Joseph’s Care Group, which is seeking about $45 million to cover escalating costs for its new senior’s centre, the Thunder Bay International Airport Authority, which would like to extend its main runway by 1,500 feet and Confederation College and Thunder Bay Regional Health Sciences Centre, which are looking for $51 million for a new research facility, dubbed the Mayo Clinic of the North.

Toss in the Thunder Bay Port Authority and its dream of $16.5 million for a trio of projects and the ask vaults itself into the stratosphere.

Thunder Bay Airport Authority president and CEO Scott McFadden said no one expects all of the money will be handed out, but it doesn’t hurt to ask.

"I don’t think anybody is under any illusions about the likelihood that all, or even many, of these projects would be funded," McFadden said, following a three-hour non-business city council meeting on Tuesday night that brought together more than 40 community leaders.

"I think we’ll be happy with whatever comes our way," he added.

Coun. Robert Tuchenhagen, worried at the size of the ask, suggested it might be a good idea for the city to prioritize the entire wish list to present the federal government with a better idea of what’s most important to the community.

Tuchenhagen suggested many of the projects on the city’s own list should be downplayed.

"I think there are a couple of no-brainers in here that we’ve seen here tonight that would create some real jobs for the city," Tuchenhagen said, partially eschewing the short-term gain of 1,100 temporary jobs the city’s list could create.

Meanwhile Lakehead University president Fred Gilbert said the simple law of supply and demand could have a drastic effect on cost estimates.

"My one concern is that all these projects are going to hit the marketplace at the same time. My question is, is there the capacity (to complete them)?" he said, estimating construction costs could grow by as much as 25 per cent in a highly competitive environment.

Peterson said it will take a few days at least to comb over the budget before municipalities can grasp just what might be available under the proposed plan.
Other cities post yours! If you exist..
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  #383  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2009, 10:16 PM
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Is TBays waterfront still primarily industrial?
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  #384  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2009, 10:18 PM
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TBay and Kenora both have some beautiful topography. To be honest i'm surprised there isn't more development in these two places.
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Last edited by Only The Lonely..; Jan 22, 2009 at 10:30 PM.
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  #385  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2009, 11:16 AM
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If Thunder Bay was a few kilometres to the south we'd be Ontario's Vancouver.

The waterfront is almost entirely industrial and it will be for a very long time. Land that isn't being used by industry probably was and in that case is contaminated. The two islands of the Kam River Delta are in really bad condition, they'll be cleaning them up for a long time. There is a community organization to turn as much of both of them as possible into parkland.

The biggest task will be cleaning up the coal storage area for the power plant after it converts to biomass in 2014. It's at least a square kilometre and has been used for coal storage since at least 1964, it's probably extremely contaminated. There were also lots of oil tanks there and in the east end. The only ones left are Petro-Canada's on Mission Island. In the 1990s, almost all of the oil tanks in the city were removed.
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  #386  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2009, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
If Thunder Bay was a few kilometres to the south we'd be Ontario's Vancouver.
How do you figure that?
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  #387  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2009, 12:10 PM
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We would be on a very small piece of land surrounded by mountains, therefore very dense and with a mountain backdrop.
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  #388  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2009, 11:32 PM
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Vid, Did you get a chance to head down to the LSP meeting last night? I unfortunately forgot about it since i got off work at 5 and went straight home. So far i can't find any good news source either.
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  #389  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2009, 12:35 AM
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I saw it on TBNews last night at 11:30 and was pissed off that I didn't remember it. I read the site a week ago and told myself to remember the date but I forgot.

http://www.lakesuperiorplace.org/

Not much new on the site that I can find, and TBTV's report just showed a tiny bit of the plan, it looks like the building got smaller? Either way it's good to see it go forward.
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  #390  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2009, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by vid View Post
We would be on a very small piece of land surrounded by mountains, therefore very dense and with a mountain backdrop.
That'd be pretty sweet. Still miles from anything though.
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  #391  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2009, 2:09 AM
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So? We would still have the third busiest airport in Ontario, and the largest export port on the Canadian side of the Seaway.

If downtown was on the peninsula around Sturgeon Bay, we would have a dense downtown like Vancouver or Saint John, with little to no suburbs. (Unlike Vancouver.) Unless things spilled over to the Mission Flats, but that's Indian land. Unless you wanted to built houses on bare rock on top of almost inaccessible by car mountains, we'd have no where to go but up.

I've always found it a little ironic that Port Arthur, the hilly end of town, was the one to build expansive suburbs miles away from its downtown, while Fort William kept everything compact and almost hesitated to expand developments outside of the original 5 square miles of the city. You would have thought, with all that flat land, Fort William would have been the one that built suburbs all over the place.
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  #392  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2009, 3:45 AM
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Sounds like a nice place to be. If only it had happened.

And Thunder Bay is the third busiest airport in Canada?

P.S. I didn't mean to come off sounding insulting or anything towards T-Bay. All I'm saying is that it would still be miles from everything, but would be a well-kept secret and potentially the crown jewel of Northwestern Ontario.
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  #393  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2009, 4:06 AM
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This busiest in Ontario. Toronto and Ottawa are the busiest. Thunder Bay, Waterloo and London are around third place, they switch spots a lot. Thunder Bay had about 750,000 air port travellers last year though, so I'm pretty sure we're in third again. Everyone in Southern Ontario uses Pearson and you can drive to anywhere in Southern Ontario. Up here, more than half of our communities are only accessible by air and to get to Pearson, we fly.
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  #394  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2009, 3:09 PM
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Quote:
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This busiest in Ontario. Toronto and Ottawa are the busiest. Thunder Bay, Waterloo and London are around third place, they switch spots a lot. Thunder Bay had about 750,000 air port travellers last year though, so I'm pretty sure we're in third again. Everyone in Southern Ontario uses Pearson and you can drive to anywhere in Southern Ontario. Up here, more than half of our communities are only accessible by air and to get to Pearson, we fly.
Neither London, nor Waterloo have anywhere close to the traffic at Thunder Bay. It is definitely solidly in third place in Ontario.
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  #395  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2009, 10:37 PM
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Right, I mixed up with air craft movements. Waterloo had 5 or 6 more than us in 2006 but that has probably changed.

Our runway is very short so we get small planes very often instead of large ones once a day. We have two flights to Toronto daily, if the airport was larger it would be one larger plane per day. They're expanding the runway, I'm not sure which one but I assume the longest one. A recent report by the airport showed that the short runway is hurting our business opportunities.
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  #396  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2009, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Details of massive new courthouse coming
The Chronicle-Journal | February 1, 2009
http://www.chroniclejournal.com/stor....php?id=161899

Ontario‘s Attorney General will be in Thunder Bay on Monday for a series of visits that is expected to include an announcement regarding a massive new courthouse facility.

“We will have something to say about the site,” Sheamus Murphy, a spokesman for Attorney General Chris Bentley, confirmed Friday.

Thunder Bay-area MPPs Jim Mauro and Michael Gravelle will join George Smitherman, deputy premier and Ministry of Energy and Infrastructure, and Bentley to make several announcements about the new consolidated courthouse.

Announcements about the process of building the facility will also be made Monday, Murphy said, without going into detail.

The announcement, which many in the legal community have been awaiting for the better part of 15 years, is set to take place at 2:15 p.m. at the Ontario Court building on Arthur Street.

It‘s believed the government will announce that the new courthouse will be built on the city‘s south side. Various sources have told The Chronicle-Journal the most likely site is the block on Miles Street, bounded by Archibald Street and Syndicate Avenue.

That block formerly housed a Loblaw and later Skaf‘s Food store – which was recently demolished – and currently contains the old YMCA, home to the John Howard Society, and the Twin City Gas buildings.

The site is across from the Brodie Street bus terminal and the north entrance of Victoriaville mall. As well, the provincial offences court facility is located nearby on Archibald Street.

Plans for merging the city‘s two main court operations – the Ontario Court and the Superior Court of Justice on Camelot Street – have been in the works for years. In 2005, Thunder Bay city council passed a resolution asking the government to build a new consolidated courthouse in the south downtown, with Paterson Park as the focal point.

Another location that had been suggested was a parcel of land off Reaume Street. Bishop Fred Colli of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Thunder Bay had said he would listen to offers for the land, which is across from the city‘s police station.

The old McKellar hospital site was also suggested as a possible location for the new facility.

Recent estimates for the cost of the project were in the range of $40 million.
If it isn't downtown you'll be seeing me in that courthouse soon.

(jk )
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  #397  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2009, 9:28 PM
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Although I do applaud the forward movement of this development (finally) this is not going to be so cut and dry.

The fight to save the YMCA Building is going to be very mean and ugly I suspect (just like every other fight to save some piece of Fort William or Port Arthur's history).

Honestly - they should just have moved the new courthouse a block east and replaced the parking lot and Brodie Bus Terminal. The demolition costs will be much much less, there would be no fight with the Historical People, Brodie Street Station needs to be replaced (desperately), and parking would be made available in the old Loblaws/Skaf's lot (and further afield if need be). The only complainers that I can see in this case would be Wesley United Church and those few businesses along that stretch of Brodie (SkiHaus and such) but they could honestly park across Miles Street. at Paterson Park.

In other news - do we know what the three projects the Port Authority submitted for the Federal Wish List?

And Vid - Yes indeed County Park West was originally Morningside. East Avenue was the eastern boundary of the plan - back in 1910.
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  #398  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2009, 8:07 AM
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The debate over the YMCA will be interesting. The building is in terrible condition, the interior moreso. The situation is similar to the St. Louis Hotel, except that this building is still occupied (and from what I've heard from neighbourhood activists, it shouldn't be). It is historically and architecturally significant but it has been allowed to get into such a state of disrepair that even if it is saved, it will likely face demolition by neglect in the near future anyway. The John Howard Society deserves a better facility, and this will make that possible since otherwise they don't have the money to do so. I think it would benefit from being located inside the courthouse, they could put in a green roof so that they have some green space to themselves. Considering it helps people who were in trouble with the law and want to improve their lives, it could produce better results in terms of rehabilitation for criminals if they're located in a facility designed for that purpose and connected to a court house itself. (The Sister Margaret Smith centre is another example of this; I can see John Howard being relocated to that area if they aren't included in the courthouse development.) I think the services of the John Howard Society should be given by the province anyway.

If the building was in better condition I would be more passionately opposed to the demolition but as it is, I don't see much benefit to it staying up. If an architecturally significant building is in poor condition with no hope of being repaired, and is blocking potential future developments, it should be razed. They could look at façadism to preserve some elements but that rarely turns out good and would be even more expensive than the demolition. As for the Twin City Gas Building, it isn't very historically important and the architecture is mediocre. It's an OK example of 1950s modernism but I doubt many people other than myself would miss the building, most people hate that style.

The bus terminal relocation will be the most interesting. Alex Grant said they would prefer a layout like the Water Street Terminal which requires a longer platform. I haven't been able to figure out a very suitable location for it other than across the street, replacing the parking lot by the police station, but that brings up the issue of parking. There is no lot large enough for it that isn't being used already. I also can't figure out where buses would go if there is no terminal. Unlike downtown Port Arthur, downtown Fort William doesn't have a stretch of street that is open enough to be a transitway. The street used by bus routes most is Brodie Street, and that's got cars parked along it 24/7.

Most businesses are supporting the development, most people that go to SkiHaus park on the street and I don't think street parking will be changed much, especially on Brodie. I think the courthouse will be fronting on Miles. A few residents in McKellar Park might not like the courthouse being in the area but I doubt it will happen. If it is a tall building we'll probably get the shadows argument from them, even though it would really only effect businesses. The church might oppose it, the sun might not shine on it in the afternoon anymore.

No idea what the port authority submitted.
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  #399  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2009, 9:42 PM
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A new station could be built on the site of the old Shelter House, and the empty lot that is directly across the end of George Street along Simpson. It would involve some creative design but it might work. It would also show some foresight due to its proximity to Kam Heritage Park and the proposed water taxi stop (which is part of the future Waterfront Development planning).

Another good sized empty area is the empty lot that used to be the St. Louis Hotel and it's parking lot along North Street at Victoria. That would require less fancy design work and is a little more central.

You could also use any number of the large empty lots along the west side of May Street between Bethune and Leith St. These are a little further afield from downtown but could work due to their proximity to the existing bus depot.

I doubt the court house is going to be very large - 4 stories tops, mostly facing Miles and probably closer to Archibald than Brodie. Shadows probably won't be much of an issue at all for the church.

I wonder if the design with be separate buildings with the stub of Syndicate Avenue between them or if the city will finally close off Syndicate completely at Miles. That will upset those people who want Victoriaville torn down completely and allow the two streets (Syndicate and Victoria) to travel through the south core again. I swear that dream is never going to go away. Ever. Of course... I'm also somewhat surprised no "enterprising" citizen has tried to do it themselves, given how crazy some of the residents of this city are.
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Old Posted Feb 5, 2009, 1:13 PM
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The street between that parking lot across from the old Shelter House and the old Odeon is Viscount Street. A bus terminal area there might fit, but it's too far for route 2/12 to access without changing timing points. It wouldn't be able to get to the terminal very easily. Almost every route would have to be changed quite significantly to access that area and it would shift several routes out of downtown completely, requiring either a transfer to another route that does go downtown or a downtown shuttle. The parking lot on North Street would also require every single route to be changed slightly and every bus would have to make multiple turns to get to that site. Using Brodie Terminal is already bad enough with all the turns. The southwest part of such a terminal design would be very difficult to get a bus to, considering how sharp the turn it. It also removes a lot of frequently used parking spaces.

The vacant lots along May Street have a similar problem. Unless buses are all re-routed to residential side street in McKellar Park and access it from behind, there are going to be major problems when it comes to turning into that area. May Street at that location might have to be five-laned or traffic lights may have to be set up.

Two places I came up with are the parking lot across from Skaf's, between Petrie's Cycle and the buildings on Victoria (which might no be long enough for the bus bays they want, a terminal where buses are all parked on an angle parallel to each other might work) and the parking lots on south Brodie Street, directly across from the library. The main problem with both would be that each site is part of several private lots, so the city would have a bit of trouble putting together the land for a terminal.

Syndicate Avenue is being closed off. The city might open a street along the north side of Victoriaville, it's currently a single one-way eastbound lane. There will probably be some sort of green space or plaza type link between the north entrance and the court house. This site could also be used as a transit street with minimal route changes, if transit is ok with a transit street format but the drivers prefer bus bays like Water Street as it is much easier to manoeuvre around that kind of platform.

Even if Victoriaville was demolished, for Syndicate to go through that area the Parkade would have to be demolished, or Syndicate will be reduced to split one lane in each direction for one block. It isn't a very major street for through traffic anymore anyway. Demolishing Victoriaville probably won't have the desired effect anyway, as the death of downtown cores is a sociological problem, not a logistical one. Tearing down Intercity, Thunder Centre and RioCann Centre would have a better result. Aside from that, we have to accept that downtown Fort William is not downtown Thunder Bay. It's not the centre of a city of 110,000. It is the centre of a city of 50,000. Downtown Port Arthur is the same. People don't shop at the downtown cores because Intercity is more accessible to more people, has more parking, more stores and more space.

John Howard Society might be moving to 315 South Syndicate. People oppose it because it is a "quiet neighbourhood on a low traffic street", completely oblivious to the fact that they live downtown on a collector road.
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