Cycling Activists Try Opportunism

[Keith P.]

Take a look at the latest from Bousquet's Blog, from recently displaced ex-Red Star "progressive journalist" Zane Woodford:

https://www.halifaxexaminer.ca/city-...ring-covid-19/

So if I read this right, an urban planner who couldn't make a living at that decided to go into the restaurant business at the worst possible time (though there are whispers he just took the business over from his father who left a bunch of people holding an empty bag of promises), and now is blaming HRM for his problems. Of course, The Usual Suspects - the HCC, the EAC, along with whack-job Martyn Williams and the guy who came up with the silly crosswalk flags among others - all jump in to support the effort to short-circuit the long, expensive and largely unpopular bike lane development plan in HRM. Instead, these activists see that opportunism might help them advance their agenda for their utopian vision of the future, and are calling for instant action to fundamentally change the nature of many streets in what they undoubtedly think would be a permanent way, because you just know once these things go in they aren't ever coming out. Of course there is a cadre of ideologically-driven Council members who are only too happy to help them out in that, along with others too dumb or sleepy to know any better, and they are using this as an opportunity to grandstand for their very blurry vision of the future.

What is truly sad is that Woodford and his employer are using this as a way to smear not only HRM Chief Exec Jacques Dube but also the traffic authority guy, Taso Koutroulakis, whose jobs include the need to keep Council from doing silly, stupid things like this on a whim, and to ensure that the desires of one interest group do not unduly affect the majority in unduly negative ways.

There are plenty of ways to make walking with proper social distancing easier in areas that may need different measures. Most streets do not have this problem but some downtown likely do, even with the vastly reduced traffic and activity levels at present. At a time when HRM needs to be cutting spending dramatically to accommodate the new reality, this Council is still wanting to waste even more money on dumb things like this.

The fall election cannot come soon enough to throw this bunch out.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I'm confused. I was assured by members of this forum that there is no difference in risk between living in a more dense urban area, where peoples' main forms of travel include walking, transit, and, to a lesser extent, bicycles, vs living in a less-dense suburban area where the main form of transportation is personal cars.

So why do we need to widen sidwalks into the street? There is no additional risk for catching COVID-19 from narrower sidewalks with, presumably, more people on them...

The article, like most on Bousquet's site, is written in an confrontational, one-sided fashion, which is mainly why I don't bother with reading anything from there anymore. I was willing to give him a fair shake, but time after time again I find myself reading one-sided SJW-type articles that appear to be more aimed at getting people pissed off than actually trying to reasonably cover a topic, and informing people of things they should know. This was further enforced when I have been listening to his questions during the NS government COVID-19 news conferences - his questions are all loaded and non-productive... typically eye-rollers for me. I don't waste my time with his garbage anymore.

But, yeah, what better time than a health crisis to try to gain traction to advance the cause? While the rest of us are just trying to work with the government's attempt to keep people safe and not overwhelm the health system (and front line workers), some folks appear to be planning on how to use this to gain ground when everybody is focusing on something more important...

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

The article, like most on Bousquet's site, is written in an confrontational, one-sided fashion, which is mainly why I don't bother with reading anything from there anymore. I was willing to give him a fair shake, but time after time again I find myself reading one-sided SJW-type articles that appear to be more aimed at getting people pissed off than actually trying to reasonably cover a topic, and informing people of things they should know. This was further enforced when I have been listening to his questions during the NS government COVID-19 news conferences - his questions are all loaded and non-productive... typically eye-rollers for me. I don't waste my time with his garbage anymore.

But, yeah, what better time than a health crisis to try to gain traction to advance the cause? While the rest of us are just trying to work with the government's attempt to keep people safe and not overwhelm the health system (and front line workers), some folks appear to be planning on how to use this to gain ground when everybody is focusing on something more important...

As usual, his cadre of bobbleheads, most of them AOC-lovers, hardcore left-wingers and ardent unionists, are all cheerleading about how great the article is and how awful HRM is for not immediately springing into action to do what the more moronic members of Council want. Every time my feelings about Bousquet and his site start to soften a bit, he publishes something like this or from one of his other equally toxic contributors that makes me come back to my senses.

[Summerville]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

The article, like most on Bousquet's site, is written in an confrontational, one-sided fashion, which is mainly why I don't bother with reading anything from there anymore.

...which is perhaps the same reason why I have lost interest with this site.

Sorry, but it looks like there is a real need for new ideas on this forum. Its seemingly more a venue for gripes and not a forum about building the city.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Summerville

...which is perhaps the same reason why I have lost interest with this site.

Sorry, but it looks like there is a real need for new ideas on this forum. Its seemingly more a venue for gripes and not a forum about building the city.

Fair enough. Participation in this forum is a personal choice. I have no control over the discussion here, just adding my thoughts to what is presented, or introducing new threads that I personally have interest in. I'm only one person and have no control over this board.

What I'm saying, is if you want to elevate the conversation it's in your court to do it. Or you can decide to leave, either way is fine IMHO. I have to say that your comment above seems to be doing the same thing you're complaining about, by griping about the forum rather than doing something to improve it.

Feel free to introduce new ideas and improve the level of conversation as you wish. You might be surprised at how your positive posting results in more positive responses. Give it a try...

[TheNovaScotian]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

As usual, his cadre of bobbleheads, most of them AOC-lovers, hardcore left-wingers and ardent unionists, are all cheerleading about how great the article is and how awful HRM is for not immediately springing into action to do what the more moronic members of Council want. Every time my feelings about Bousquet and his site start to soften a bit, he publishes something like this or from one of his other equally toxic contributors that makes me come back to my senses.

This Neo-McCarthy hate for all people that aren't right wing really makes it hard to agree with your argument though I do think this is opportunistic. Try to remember unionist fought and died for your right to a 8 hour day, child labour laws, 5 day work week etc. and have no vested interest in bicycle lanes in any official way.

You're argument suffers from massive generalizations. To use this article and some extremist internet tag line nonsense to rile up some good old fashion partisan hate, shows how toxic the whole discussion has become.

[Keith P.]

What "extremist tag line" are you referring to? Have you read the responses to this on Bousquet's and Woodford's social media?

[PortaPetee]

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[PortaPetee]

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[someone123]

Originally Posted by PortaPetee

Yup! One could simply not read the propaganda....but it is so constant it becomes hard to ignore.

I wish the mods would do something about the poor behaviour. It buries constructive discussion and drives participants away.

My take on this (I'm open to ideas) is that it's OK for there to be specific threads but it's a problem if one issue starts to dominate everywhere. I value a range of different opinions, so while the forum should be open to all to participate, respectful disagreement and debate are normal and healthy on a discussion forum (and the "respect" or kindness bar is a bit different for posters vs. public figures vs. inanimate objects or concepts; I don't think folks like the mayor or premier will be personally devastated by a comment on SSP, and I am sure the city councillors deal with plenty of in-person criticism).

One problem right now is there isn't a lot of constructive stuff happening due to the pandemic. To make matters worse a lot of people are frustrated and spending a lot of time indoors. The bread and butter on here is really construction updates and discussion and that's a little light right now due to covid. Although I have noticed unfortunately we aren't getting the same frequency of photo updates. I don't live in Halifax and sadly I don't get back that often so I can't contribute much other than what I find online. I'm not sure why but I find even through searching websites, the quality of photography available has not gone up much in recent years. It seems like things are very "Instagrammy" lately, lots of low resolution filter heavy stuff that's mostly the same well-known scenes over and over or selfies. Photographer communities like Flickr don't seem as successful now. Maybe I am just not aware of the good ones.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by PortaPetee

Yup! One could simply not read the propaganda....but it is so constant it becomes hard to ignore.

I agree. The constant propaganda from the cycling lobby, their supporters in the media, and their captives on Council about how cycling is the future way of getting around in HRM like it used to be in Beijing in the 1960s becomes very tiresome and irksome considering that only a small handful actually use the expensive infrastructure that HRM has overlaid onto the city's obsolete street network.

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I agree. The constant propaganda from the cycling lobby, their supporters in the media, and their captives on Council about how cycling is the future way of getting around in HRM like it used to be in Beijing in the 1960s becomes very tiresome and irksome considering that only a small handful actually use the expensive infrastructure that HRM has overlaid onto the city's obsolete street network.

They are the true one percent Keith.

[OldDartmouthMark]

OK, from a problem-solving standpoint, what do we do?

I feel like I'm part of the conversation, since a quote from me was used to start the idea that 'we' are driving people away from this discussion forum, apparently.

I can't speak for others, or what others may think of what I post, but I do try to keep an open mind for new ideas. I also have opinions that are shaped by my values and personal life experience, as do all of us. When I post I feel I'm being honest to myself, my personal values, and to the other forum members, which in my mind is what advances the conversation and makes it interesting to participate.

I don't want to participate in an echo chamber, nor a forum where the 'isms' are let slide (like racism, sexism, ageism, etc), and overall I don't see that as being much of an issue. I also do not subscribe to 'left' or 'right' views - I just look at them as 'views', non categorized. I see many posters (especially on the main forums) who tend to frame everything they post on some sort of left or right ideology - which seems narrow-minded to me, but if that's what they believe, then that's what they believe, at least they are being honest.

When I posted my comments above, I posted my real opinion, and hoped that it wouldn't offend anyone, but can see in retrospect how it could have had that effect. I started with some sarcasm relating to another discussion in another thread - which had a little emotional baggage attached to it (I'm human), then made a comment about a particular journalist who I feel is often over the top and overstates his ideas in order to frame it in a particular way (I don't like that as I view it as a form of dishonesty) - my opinion. Then I voice a little frustration at the fact that we are in a pandemic, and folks are squabbling about wanting to take some of the roadway away in order to make sidwalks bigger - poor timing IMHO, as we have way larger problems to worry about now, like health, the economy, the future. I didn't buy into the way Keith framed it, but I can understand the way he would think about it given his opinions as he has clearly stated in the past (he is honest).

So.... enough about me. If you guys really want to fix the problem, then step up and say what you think needs to be done. I'm not a mod, and I don't have any power over this forum, but I don't want my actions or statements to ruin others' experiences here (if that's the case), nor do I think that my words hold any more weight than anybody else's.

So, how do we fix this? Or do we fix it at all? What say you?

[someone123]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

So, how do we fix this? Or do we fix it at all? What say you?

I think all that is needed is charity toward posters in general. Everyone's free to make new threads as long as they're vaguely on topic. And definitely invited to post photos and construction updates, the primary content on here.

If some threads are too negative or they all go down the same path maybe some can be more specific, e.g. have a thread that's just for cycling improvements or bike lanes. and not about whether or not these things are good or bad per se.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I don't want to participate in an echo chamber, nor a forum where the 'isms' are let slide (like racism, sexism, ageism, etc), and overall I don't see that as being much of an issue. I also do not subscribe to 'left' or 'right' views - I just look at them as 'views', non categorized. I see many posters (especially on the main forums) who tend to frame everything they post on some sort of left or right ideology - which seems narrow-minded to me, but if that's what they believe, then that's what they believe, at least they are being honest.

I will note the following, based on long experience and much observation.

I have found that "progressives", regardless of political party affiliation, do not take criticism or being proven wrong at all well. I have come to believe it is because of the very nature of the label and those who pin it on themselves. By definition, if you are "progressive", you are on the side of the gods. You cannot possibly be wrong. Either what you believe is being done somewhere else so therefore it must be correct, even if too little time has passed to judge the effects (as seems to be the argument that originated this discussion), or it is so mind-blowingly incredible and forward-thinking that nobody with even half a brain could possibly oppose it. Therefore any criticism can only be personal or political, not fact-based or logical.

Meanwhile, "conservatives", again by the nature of the label, are seen as out-of-touch, old-fashioned, and intransigent in their positions, despite the typical benefit of long and practical experience. Never mind if the argument is to put 4-way stops on the 102, or to tax people making over 100K at 90% marginal rates because clearly they are too rich (or use whatever other half-baked example you prefer). Their views simply are seen as clearly and fundamentally flawed by those who call themselves progressive.

The polarization that we see so often now in political discourse is based in large part on this, in my opinion. When you label yourself in such a way that you cannot possibly be wrong in your position, it should not be a surprise.

[Summerville]

Perhaps I should be honest and direct.

The issue that I have is Keith's vitriol, which done in the way that Keith chooses does not contribute to the Forum.

Months ago Keith made what seemed to me to be a personal attack against Erica Butler, which I thought was slanderous at the time. I thought of calling Keith out.

Keith continually attacks Sam Austen. I'm sure that Sam has a thick skin by now and he chose to be in the public light.

But I know both of Erica and Sam. I used to work with Sam and Erica is a parent at my kid's school. I don't think that they have shares in a bicycle company. They aren't planning to make a personal profit from the things that they believe in. They have aspirations for this city like most of us.

Kourash Rad has probably contributed more to this city in one minute than many of us have. But heck,...let's attack him as a person to make our point.

I've only been coming to this site for the last 5-10 years. Its really your Forum. You can choose to do nothing.

But if you are going to do anything, cut back on the personal attacks. They have little value for people that are excited about the new development in this city and want a venue to discuss what is happening.

I've lived here my whole life. I love the fact that Halifax is developing in the way that it does. I might be in the 1% but I love tall and well designed buildings and also I love biking to work in this city. I've been biking to work for the last 20 years. And dealing with land is my profession,...and it what my family has done as well.

Cut back on the personal attacks and BS. I know that it will mean that Keith has less to say. But I don't think that many of the people that come to this site want to see a thread where old men gripe about change.

[alps]

I generally agree. There is a difference between "fact-based and logical" criticisms and personal attacks. I was on the receiving end of one of the "fact-based and logical" criticisms on this forum after I was interviewed by a media outlet a few years ago. It was a snide, ageist comment that was not accompanied by any sort of argument. Please, let's not kid ourselves by suggesting that personal attacks are not being made.

I still visit the forum because, after so many years, I have just come to expect this stuff. But I don't blame others for being bothered by it, and it surely must turn off potential newcomers who stumble across the forum through Google! I know another poster who no longer visits the forum due to the overall negativity and vitriol against the "cycling lobby" and whatnot. What really set him off was someone joking some time ago that they would run down cyclists with their car.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Summerville

Perhaps I should be honest and direct.

The issue that I have is Keith's vitriol, which done in the way that Keith chooses does not contribute to the Forum.

Months ago Keith made what seemed to me to be a personal attack against Erica Butler, which I thought was slanderous at the time. I thought of calling Keith out.

Keith continually attacks Sam Austen. I'm sure that Sam has a thick skin by now and he chose to be in the public light.

Kourash Rad has probably contributed more to this city in one minute than many of us have. But heck,...let's attack him as a person to make our point.

Let's be clear here. You claim I made "personal attacks" on these individuals, but offer no specifics. That may well be a personal attack on me by your definition.

I would be happy to outline my criticisms of those individuals if you wish to engage. But I suspect your definition of "personal attack" is one of any criticism of those who take positions that are aligned with your own.

EDIT: I just did a search of the entire forum for any posts by me containing the word "Butler" since I could not recall any particular commentary. I found 4 results. The only one from the recent past was a reply to a post YOU made touting an article she apparently penned for Bousquet's Examiner blog, but which was a bad link and so remained unread by me.

Also you should be aware that what I wrote about Mr. Rad was taken from a discussion on the same topic in another forum by those more familiar with the situation than myself, so it is hardly a secret. Given how you characterize his contributions to the city, are you saying he works in the public sector in addition to being a restaurateur?

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by someone123

I think all that is needed is charity toward posters in general. Everyone's free to make new threads as long as they're vaguely on topic. And definitely invited to post photos and construction updates, the primary content on here.

If some threads are too negative or they all go down the same path maybe some can be more specific, e.g. have a thread that's just for cycling improvements or bike lanes. and not about whether or not these things are good or bad per se.

Thanks for the input, I'll try to curb any negative aspects of my posts in the future, and not become involved in threads such as this.

Also, I'm thinking that in the future, if a new thread pops up that is basically negative and non-productive, that maybe the mods should nuke it, to keep things on a more positive keel.

[PortaPetee]

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