ERIE | Development Projects Thread

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Butternut

Totally agree. That and East Bayfront (though lets tackle west first shall we) are so underutilized its laughable. Modern apartment buildings/complexes should line the northern-most streets and, generally, row-style houses and renovated older structures should fill in behind. This is so elementary toward building a pleasing, modern, enticing 21st century downtown neighborhood. People seem to forget that a downtown neighborhood is NOT supposed to look like a suburban/rural neighborhood. In this case, its extremely selfish and painfully ignorant of the neighbors to try and block development of a dying neighborhood on life support.

I can understand the overall lack of interest on the east bluff due to the industrial character of the east bayfront, along with the sewage treatment plant, and the much lower topography. But yeah, the west bluff neighborhoods seem to scream for more residential development. I guess the demand is just not there. Though I do think that if nicer condos/apartments were built north of W3rd in the 2-5 story range, there would be definitely be interest once more is done with the bluff promenade and more is completed down on the bayfront on the Sassafras and Liberty piers.

[Butternut]

Originally Posted by pj3000

I actually think it's a major shame that the Erie Malleable Iron buildings on 12th will not be renovated and put back into productive use. These brick factory buildings are the very essence of Erie. And they're disappearing rapidly, for no good reason really. I'd MUCH rather be greeted by 1870s brick factories when I'm heading into downtown, than by car dealership lots, fast food outlets, and new, completely generic steel and concrete block warehouse "buildings".

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1179...7i16384!8i8192

Erie has erased SO much of its rich industrial architecture history (even just along the 12th Street corridor) in favor of surface parking lots. The amount of demolition I've witnessed in Erie since the 1980s is simply depressing. Erie's practice of allowing high-quality buildings to completely rot and then demolish has given us countless parking lots and other decidedly non-urban uses in and around downtown.

I am hearing you and seeing your point. I enjoy all types of architecture, including old school brick-style. It definitely could have been turned into a cool looking residential/office mixed-use type property. But the question is at what price. I think the cost-benefit analysis was probably pretty clear. My point is that I don't want to see a big hulking manufacturing plant on a main thoroughfare into downtown. I think its exceedingly ugly and depreciates the value of adjacent residential property (whose value is already in the tubes).

[Butternut]

Originally Posted by pj3000

I can understand the overall lack of interest on the east bluff due to the industrial character of the east bayfront, along with the sewage treatment plant, and the much lower topography. But yeah, the west bluff neighborhoods seem to scream for more residential development. I guess the demand is just not there. Though I do think that if nicer condos/apartments were built north of W3rd in the 2-5 story range, there would be definitely be interest once more is done with the bluff promenade and more is completed down on the bayfront on the Sassafras and Liberty piers.

Exactly my thoughts

[DFWCC8]

While attending events at the Prep Events center, I've always thought the 4 story bldg at the SW corner of 12th & Cherry sts could be turned into a chic apartment bldg. There is garage (entry on Cherry st) attached that would supply extra storage and security parking.
Think they missed the boat on this one.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by DFWCC8

While attending events at the Prep Events center, I've always thought the 4 story bldg at the SW corner of 12th & Cherry sts could be turned into a chic apartment bldg. There is garage (entry on Cherry st) attached that would supply extra storage and security parking.
Think they missed the boat on this one.

Yes, I fully agree. That's the office portion, and it would definitely lend itself to some type of relatively easy reuse -- be it traditional office, co-working space, art/light manufacturing studios, or live/work space. I understand that the massive factory portions are just tough to reuse for anything but heavy manufacturing.

It's a massive complex... and to think that what remains only represents about 1/3 of the original factory is amazing to me.

[pj3000]

Some good stuff going on in the west county borough of Girard. This is good to see the community taking a reactive/proactive approach to solidifying their Main St. business district, with an eye towards historic preservation and revitalization.

Girard, named after one of the wealthiest Americans of all time Philadelphia banker Stephen Girard (who owned much of the land in western Erie County), is a suburb of Erie with ~ 12,000 people in the borough, adjacent Lake City borough, and surrounding Girard Township.

Girard's "downtown" was getting quite shabby, and with the recent losses: 2020 demolition of the 1860s-era Girard Hotel (which was heavily damaged by fire in the 1950s and has sat vacant for more than a decade) and the 2018 destruction of the 1890s First Presbyterian Church by fire (rebuilt 2021), action is being taken to flip the script and bring Main St. back to life.

National Register designation: Girard plans to leverage the past to revitalize its downtown

https://www.goerie.com/story/news/lo...ty/4372845001/

Girard Borough is joining a growing list of Erie County municipalities that are building on their past to attract visitors and grow business.

Girard is developing a master plan on ways to use its history and other assets to help revitalize its downtown.

Girard Borough also plans to seek Downtown Historic District designation from the National Register of Historic Places to help draw new business and visitors.

Girard Hotel



First Presbyterian Church





A new cafe on Main St. goes a long way towards increasing foot traffic and interest in revaitalization.

[pj3000]

Some updated renderings I haven't seen of the EDDC redevelopment of the North Park Row block and the West 5th site (former McDonald's & surface lot).

Though I hate to see the Greyhound bus station demolished, the renderings show a much improved streetscape. I like the seamless blend of the 3 new buildings mid-block. The bus station should have never been built there in the 1930s... so out of place in so many ways. Art moderne in the middle of an 1850s block, with a cutout for a bus parking lot and loading area... just makes zero style, nor structural, nor functional sense in the context of the area. An early Erie planning mistake... just a tiny taste of the many major fuckups to come.

I wonder if it could be decontructed and moved elsewhere? That would be really cool. Plenty of empty lots downtown...

[jFug]

So according to the Whole Foods Co-op FB page and newsletter, they are considering a second location downtown. They are currently located at W. 26th and Brown Ave. but are going to hold "listening sessions" this month to gauge interest in a second location.

I think this great because downtown is an obvious desert stretching west to the city/Millcreek line, east to Elm Street Walmart, and south to 26th St.

I think they would need to have both organic and non-organic options to keep prices affordable for lower-income residents who live near downtown, though.

But all in all, I think this could work and they wouldn't have much nearby competition when it comes to being a full-service grocery store.

https://wfcerie.coop/newsletter

[deja vu]

On that topic -

• Video Link

Just posted today by EDDC. Coincidence?

#grocERIEs is a clever tag.

[jFug]

Originally Posted by deja vu

On that topic -

• Video Link

Just posted today by EDDC. Coincidence?

#grocERIEs is a clever tag.

Honestly, I don't care who does it (The Co-op, EDDC, etc.) but downtown Erie does need one.

People are bringing up the fact that the Oasis Market closed last year, as a reason why downtown can't support a grocery store. To that I want to bring up a few points:

First off, the Oasis Market closed because of the COVID lockdowns. Had COVID not occured, I would bet that store would still be there.

Second, the Oasis Market was not a full-service grocery store. They had some fresh produce and bakery items, but there was never a consistent stock of meats, cheeses, prepared foods, etc. They had a rotating lists of vendors who sold everything from baked goods to soaps or artwork but it wasn't even anywhere near the variety you would even find at an Aldi.

I don't want anyone thinking I am dunking on them, because they did have a cool thing going on, but if you are a lower-income resident who lives downtown and does not have a car, are you going to buy your produce at Oasis and then take a bus to Giant Eagle for your meat and cheese or are you just going to get everything on your trip to Giant Eagle?

That's why, if either of these proposals is going to happen, it's going to have to be a full-service grocery store with everything.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by jFug

I think this great because downtown is an obvious desert stretching west to the city/Millcreek line, east to Elm Street Walmart, and south to 26th St.

Never thought about this... but it's rather amazing that there's no large supermarket within the entire area you descrbe. That's a very large tract of densely-populated urban area to have no grocery store.

Though I would not say this area is a food desert by a long shot. There are a bunch of smaller markets/bodegas/delis/etc. that offer fresh foods and produce within this tract.

But I guess the last full-on supermarkets within these boundaries were Sanders Market (former Quality Markets) on the lower east side and Bradley's Shur-Fine on the lower west side, which have both been closed for a few years now.

It's not really downtown specifically that needs a supermarket, it's central Erie, in general, that could use one or more. I think the former Erie Central Mall is a perfect location for an actual supermarket -- something like an ALDI, Save-A-Lot, Price Rite, whatever.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by deja vu

On that topic -

• Video Link

Just posted today by EDDC. Coincidence?

#grocERIEs is a clever tag.

I'd really like the EDDC and others to stop with the "poorest zip code in the country" / "poorest zip code in the state" thing, when referring to downtown Erie (16501 specifically).

While based on median income levels, that may very well be accurate... but it is never mentioned that only around 2,100 people live there, and the vast majority are senior citizens and disabled people living in subsidized/public housing and college students living in dorms or apartments. So obviously incomes will be very low.

I mean, come on. Take a look a 16501 boundaries... it's almost all commercial or industrial or institutional properties. The residential is almost all high-rise subsidized housing, dorms, and college apartments. There are almost no single-family homes in the zip code.

[jFug]

Originally Posted by pj3000

I think the former Erie Central Mall is a perfect location for an actual supermarket -- something like an ALDI, Save-A-Lot, Price Rite, whatever.

That would be a good location and it already has the space necessary for parking.

I always thought that huge parcel of land between Myrtle St and Sassafras St, just north of the railroad tracks would be a perfect spot to put an Aldi. (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1201.../data=!3m1!1e3)

[deja vu]

Originally Posted by pj3000

I'd really like the EDDC and others to stop with the "poorest zip code in the country" / "poorest zip code in the state" thing, when referring to downtown Erie (16501 specifically).

While based on median income levels, that may very well be accurate... but it is never mentioned that only around 2,100 people live there, and the vast majority are senior citizens and disabled people living in subsidized/public housing and college students living in dorms or apartments. So obviously incomes will be very low.

I mean, come on. Take a look a 16501 boundaries... it's almost all commercial or industrial or institutional properties. The residential is almost all high-rise subsidized housing, dorms, and college apartments. There are almost no single-family homes in the zip code.

Yeah it's frustrating that they push that narrative. I mean, I'm sure they are aware of the negative image it could cause, which also leads me to believe that the main reason they do it is for money. If you can back up your poverty with statistics, it opens the door for more grant opportunities, public funding, etc. Not that I'm saying I think EDDC's entire strategy is to just bottom feed on public dollars. But I think they are walking a balancing line as they help grow the city. A secondary advantage might be that later down the road, they can say "Hey lookit! We turned the state's / country's poorest zip code into one of the most prosperous!"

[pj3000]

Happy to see the big ERIE installed in the Big E





The big 'Erie' sign is now in place at Bayview Park's waterfront bluff

https://www.goerie.com/story/news/lo...rk/4629510001/

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by jFug

I always thought that huge parcel of land between Myrtle St and Sassafras St, just north of the railroad tracks would be a perfect spot to put an Aldi. (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1201.../data=!3m1!1e3)

Yeah, I think a mix of retail and residential there would be great. I really would love to see that old terminal building be redeveloped into something cool.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1207...7i16384!8i8192

Originally Posted by deja vu

Yeah it's frustrating that they push that narrative. I mean, I'm sure they are aware of the negative image it could cause, which also leads me to believe that the main reason they do it is for money. If you can back up your poverty with statistics, it opens the door for more grant opportunities, public funding, etc. Not that I'm saying I think EDDC's entire strategy is to just bottom feed on public dollars. But I think they are walking a balancing line as they help grow the city. A secondary advantage might be that later down the road, they can say "Hey lookit! We turned the state's / country's poorest zip code into one of the most prosperous!"

Yup, I think they push it to make sure they are publicly well within the Opportunity Zone and LERTA guidelines, and yes, they want to be able to see the median income of the zip code went from x to y as a result of our work over the past z number of years and abc dollars invested.

It's just very misleading and creates a very poor, negative image of downtown and Erie in general. And it is also a smack in the face to long-stuggling neighborhoods in the city that have experienced actual poverty and its debilitating effects over a period of decades.

[pj3000]

Well, here we go...

Erie's Whole Foods Cooperative eyes possible expansion to EDDC's downtown property

https://www.goerie.com/story/enterta...ie/4628816001/

Erie's Whole Foods Co-op is in talks with the Erie Downtown Development Corp. about a possible expansion to EDDC property in downtown Erie.

That's been confirmed by Cole Schenley, president of the co-op's board of directors; LeAnna Nieratko, the co-op's general manager; and John Persinger, CEO of the EDDC.

The Whole Foods Cooperative, 1341 W. 26th St., is a full-service grocery that specializes in organic and regional cuisine, as well as wellness and body care products. It also includes a bakery/cafe.

While Schenley said conversations about adding a second location have taken place over the last several months, Nieratko said nothing has been finalized and that the co-op's board of directors will make the final decision.

If the plan moves ahead, the co-op would be the primary tenant in the 8,000-square-foot Flagship City Public Market in the former Sherlock's-Park Place along North Park Row, Persinger said.

Like the Flagship City Food Hall, located at the other end of that same block, the market is expected to open this fall, Persinger said.

Persinger said plans call for the grocery store to be paired in that space with a local butcher and a distillery.

The move would represent a substantial change for the neighborhood, he said.

"Everyone knows downtown is a food desert," Persinger said. "Whole Foods was at the top of our list. They have done a fantastic job for more than 40 years."

Nieratko said the co-op has been approached by local officials in the past about expanding into downtown Erie.

“The barrier has always been capital. We don’t have the money to renovate buildings,” Nieratko said. “In this case, the building will be renovated for us already.”

The co-op is hosting public, online listening sessions each Sunday to get feedback from local residents about the possibility of a second store.

Nieratko said there's more than one reason for the co-op to be interested in this possible expansion.

"(One reason is) the opportunity to create living a wage and inclusive jobs, and this is an opportunity to do that. Another reason is that we would be providing ethically-sourced foods to the urban core."

Whoever signs on to operate the market, Persinger said they need to meet the needs of a low-income community.

"We are sensitive to the community that lives down there and to the surrounding neighborhoods," he said. "They need to be selling at prices that the downtown and surrounding neighborhood can afford.

Nieratko said she's mindful of meeting that need.

“If we do this, we need to make sure we’re affordable for everyone,” Nieratko said.

[jFug]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Well, here we go...

There's some local opposition to this. Apparently some feel that the EDDC is "racist" and that in short, the co-op is making a deal with the devil.

The way I see it is that, no matter your view on the EDDC, first and foremost we should all be behind establishing a grocery store downtown for the residents who live down there.

I understand people's issues with the EDDC. The purchase of that building ended up being a PR nightmare for them because they handled it all wrong. But I don't think they have questionable intentions...quite the opposite.

[jFug]

Today while driving on W. 12th Street downtown I noticed some chain link fencing has been put up around the old Erie General Tire building on the 100 block of W. 12th.

I know the owner planned on starting on these projects when the weather broke. This also includes renovating the old Metropolitan Club building and exterior renovations to the old Citizens Bank building at 12th and State.

The renovations for the EGT building are expected to be around $1M and the building will be leased to a new business.

https://www.goerie.com/story/busines...21/6693601002/

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by jFug

There's some local opposition to this. Apparently some feel that the EDDC is "racist" and that in short, the co-op is making a deal with the devil.

The way I see it is that, no matter your view on the EDDC, first and foremost we should all be behind establishing a grocery store downtown for the residents who live down there.

I understand people's issues with the EDDC. The purchase of that building ended up being a PR nightmare for them because they handled it all wrong. But I don't think they have questionable intentions...quite the opposite.

Yeah, unfortunately EDDC handled the redevelopment/eviction of business tenants poorly. It was a reflection of the EDDC personnel being young and inexperienced... who basically just take their marching orders from Erie Insurance.

The main thing that’s important about the concerted effort to put a grocery store in this development is that it fully indicates to me that they are committed to building significantly more residential developments in the downtown area. Meaning that those renderings are going to get built. Because an organic market is going to need a consistent clientele made up of nearby residents, and a particular type of residents, i.e., those with disposable income.