MEMPHIS | Development News

[Dr Nevergold]

Extending the streetcar/trolley to Overton Square is only a mile and a half, and at the price of other streetcar systems (see Atlanta) you could easily do this for probably around $75 million WITH NEW VEHICLES that could modernize the entire system.

If you added on another $100 million or so for the Cook center, Memphis could get more bang for its buck without some grandiose scheme to rebuild a new convention center and have it consume everything.

And likewise, these renovation budget projections must be based on gold plated toilet seats or something, the Cook center isn't *that* out of date. I was just in Memphis the other weekend and walked around the building, its not like it needs *that* much investment.

Budgets are tight everywhere. Cities, states, and the federal government are having harder times working together in general, its a nationwide phenomenon. As such, Memphis should take an incremental approach. Instead of a grandiose light rail to the airport plan, just start with a 1.5 mile extension of the streetcar and convert to modern LRV/tram type vehicles. The track and electrical systems are 100% compatible with modern vehicles, that's all Memphis needs. Then once that is done, maybe in 10 years you can extend the system somewhere else for a few miles. This idea that it has to be a multi-billion investment or nothing is just bunk. Memphis is lucky to already have 6 miles of track for streetcars/trolleys as it is.

[MEMFLY]

Originally Posted by DoomJ

Downtown hotel development news?



http://www.commercialappeal.com/busi...ntown_07438210

Not alot to comment with this article , but it is good to hear their is interest to build real hotels in Downtown Memphis. I'd be interested to see what brands their considering expectantly the 400+ one. That's would defiantly make a dent in the skyline. As for the Convention center I agree with the recent posters. Their is not purpose in putting any more money into the CCC and it would be better spent on another project.

[MEMFLY]

No big deal or anything(sarcasm), but instead of Times Sqaure CNN will be hosting their New Year's Eve Live from Beale this year.


Paul Morris @memphismorris · 3h 3 hours ago
CNN noticed all the great things happening on Beale Street and has decided to broadcast New Year's Eve Live from Beale this year.
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[arkitekte]

Originally Posted by DoomJ

Absolutely agree. Hell, we can still make improvements to Cook, but it doesn't mean we have to make $424 million worth of improvements.

True, but, as ridiculous as it sounds, it would be easier to attract larger or new conventions to Memphis with a new convention center rather than attract conventions to Memphis in the Cook after even $200 million of improvements. The issue with the lack of hotels still exists as well. The construction of a new convention center could possibly kick start that a little more, however the interest is already present; maybe the right incentives from the city cold get that going.

The biggest problem with a new convention center is the (larger) void that it would create at the north end of Main where the Cook is. That would be a major task in itself to redevelop. At that point you would have to include the cost of building a new convention center and the redevelopment (or demolition) of the existing space.

With that being said, for the overall long term health of downtown (hotels, private development, etc.) I think new space is the best long term solution...especially since the push has been toward South Main and the Forum area, however, that's not to say that the north end of Main should be completely ignored.

Originally Posted by Dr Nevergold

Extending the streetcar/trolley to Overton Square is only a mile and a half, and at the price of other streetcar systems (see Atlanta) you could easily do this for probably around $75 million WITH NEW VEHICLES that could modernize the entire system.

This is what I would like to see as well. Keep the older trolleys downtown on the Main Street and Riverside loop for the tourists, and expand to Overton Square with new street cars that Memphians can use. The infrastructure is already somewhat there.

If you added on another $100 million or so for the Cook center, Memphis could get more bang for its buck without some grandiose scheme to rebuild a new convention center and have it consume everything.

And likewise, these renovation budget projections must be based on gold plated toilet seats or something, the Cook center isn't *that* out of date. I was just in Memphis the other weekend and walked around the building, its not like it needs *that* much investment.

In the larger scheme of things, it's not out of date as far as building standards go, but as far as what conventions seek, it's pretty bad off; the interior space is pretty rough. Expansion is tricky as well as far as space and the structure that's presently there to accommodate that. Add that with seismic upgrades and you're easily looking at $200-$300 million.

One thing that I don't want is for something to be done "temporarily" on the cheap, whether that's redeveloping the Cook or constructing a new space. I understand that financially neither is possible right now (if so I think something would have already been done), but I can't help but feel that whatever decision is made if it's made by the same individuals that conjured up Beale Street Landing will be done wrong.

Budgets are tight everywhere. Cities, states, and the federal government are having harder times working together in general, its a nationwide phenomenon. As such, Memphis should take an incremental approach. Instead of a grandiose light rail to the airport plan, just start with a 1.5 mile extension of the streetcar and convert to modern LRV/tram type vehicles. The track and electrical systems are 100% compatible with modern vehicles, that's all Memphis needs. Then once that is done, maybe in 10 years you can extend the system somewhere else for a few miles. This idea that it has to be a multi-billion investment or nothing is just bunk. Memphis is lucky to already have 6 miles of track for streetcars/trolleys as it is.

Well put.

[arkitekte]

Originally Posted by MEMFLY

No big deal or anything(sarcasm), but instead of Times Sqaure CNN will be hosting their New Year's Eve Live from Beale this year.


Paul Morris @memphismorris · 3h 3 hours ago
CNN noticed all the great things happening on Beale Street and has decided to broadcast New Year's Eve Live from Beale this year.
0 replies 112 retweets 56 favorites
Reply Retweet112 Favorite56
More

Good news.

I guess the Beale Street Cover charge will be back in time for that.



I'll stop.

[Dr Nevergold]

Originally Posted by MEMFLY

Not alot to comment with this article , but it is good to hear their is interest to build real hotels in Downtown Memphis. I'd be interested to see what brands their considering expectantly the 400+ one. That's would defiantly make a dent in the skyline. As for the Convention center I agree with the recent posters. Their is not purpose in putting any more money into the CCC and it would be better spent on another project.

Maybe spending nothing is allowing the center to decay a bit too much, but a renovation should be a moderate to low expense. Why does Memphis need to attract significantly larger conventions? Is this about making the city better for visitors or for the people who live in Memphis? There are creative ways that cost little to no money to advertise Memphis in places where tourists could be enticed to visit without needing to attend a convention in the city.

A streetcar modernization project with a small extension out to Overton Square would serve the city better, serve the residents who are in the city day in and day out, and a moderate convention center upgrade could sustain the size of conventions the center was built for.

I don't think laying down new carpets and new bathrooms and furniture and fixtures and lighting would cost $400 million. Probably more like $40 million. I don't know, but anyone should strongly question spending $400-500 million on a convention center.

[Wayward Memphian]

Originally Posted by Dr Nevergold

Maybe spending nothing is allowing the center to decay a bit too much, but a renovation should be a moderate to low expense. Why does Memphis need to attract significantly larger conventions? Is this about making the city better for visitors or for the people who live in Memphis? There are creative ways that cost little to no money to advertise Memphis in places where tourists could be enticed to visit without needing to attend a convention in the city.

A streetcar modernization project with a small extension out to Overton Square would serve the city better, serve the residents who are in the city day in and day out, and a moderate convention center upgrade could sustain the size of conventions the center was built for.

I don't think laying down new carpets and new bathrooms and furniture and fixtures and lighting would cost $400 million. Probably more like $40 million. I don't know, but anyone should strongly question spending $400-500 million on a convention center.

I don't get this. Yeah, screw larger conventions or sales shows and whatever else that a better convention center may bring. Screw those hotels bookings, screw those extra flights into MEM and the added flights that might bring. I'm not for half a billion unless it had new indoor football stadium as part of it to double up as floor space like the Alamo Dome in San Antonio and it being a weatherproof home of the Liberty Bowl in a much more ideal location.
But, if that is a no go, it's going to take lots more than what you suggest to get Cook up to date. It need reskinned considering it's location. What a big square of brown doo doo it looks like.

[Dr Nevergold]

I never said screw the hotel bookings and flights that a convention brings in, all I said is that often these revenues and benefits are overstated. Also, there's only so much convention offerings to go around. A city has to weigh the benefits and drawbacks of investing what will need to be over $500 million to compete. Furthermore, a new convention center would need to be closer to $750 million so its built better than other new centers to compete against them. Is $750 million worth it right now?

I'm not the only one asking questions, there are publications on the issue.

http://www.citylab.com/cityfixer/201...-centers/2210/

Over the last 20 years, convention space in the United States has increased by 50 percent; since 2005, 44 new convention spaces have been planned or constructed in this country alone. That boom hasn't come cheap. In the last ten years, spending on convention centers has doubled to $2.4 billion annually, much of it from public coffers.

The actual number of conventions hosted in the U.S. has fallen over the last decade

http://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2...he-bottom.html

The problem with convention center developments are numerous: there are usually a lot of bad urban design outcomes, they’re large buildings that are essentially single-use that don’t lend much to street life, and they cost local governments a lot of money.

The number of conventions and total number of people going to conventions has decreased since it peaked in the mid-1990s. The situation we have now is that of more cities are competing for fewer dollars.

It's a classic race to the bottom.

http://www.brookings.edu/research/re...cities-sanders

Another competitive response has been to offer deep discounts to tradeshow groups. Despite dedicated taxes to pay off the public bonds issued to build convention centers, many—including Washington, D.C and St. Louis—operate at a loss.

There are many voices stating the obvious about these convention centers: they're single use, they often add little to streetlife, they're often out of date very quickly, and they take massive public dollars away from other investments well beyond the initial capital investment on the front. If you want to invest that much hard cash in a convention center, by all means Memphis can do it if chosen as a priority for the city. But other needs in the city will go unaddressed as the property, hotel, and car rental taxes go up to fund what will be minimal return on the investment. The FedEx forum is 10 years old, it opened in fall 2004. It isn't like the city has stood idle on recent public building investments like this. And yes I think the FedEx forum is a success, but is another massive publicly financed center needed right now?

Look at the Pyramid, it was a public single use type facility that struggled and they finally had another taxpayer financed deal to provide it to Bass Pro Shops. Meanwhile, Memphis can't afford other things it needs. If you want to book a hotel room in Nashville, you're basically now paying right at 20% in taxes to do so. This has to disincentive other forms of tourism. Is this really better for the city? Not in my judgment. Nashville's condo boom and overall economic success isn't derived from the massive Music City Center complex. And again, I'm not saying put off upgrades on the existing center. Something should be done, absolutely. The city will have to debate what they think is best.

Since $400 million really isn't enough to compete with larger venues, why not set out $400 million for other initatives:

$100 million to extend the streetcar service out to Overton Square and into Overton Park up to the Zoo, purchasing new light rail vehicles so it becomes a modern system that is faster.
$50 million renovating the current convention center to make it look newer and more attractive
$100 million fund to provide tax incentives to build a couple new highrise offices, hotels, and condo housing downtown, including maybe a new 30+ story hotel north of I-40 to connect to the convention center upgrades (including some large meeting rooms that are privately owned/managed by the hotel franchise)
$150-200 million in capital projects to rebuild schools and police facilities around the city, and tie in some funding toward education after school programs to keep kids out of trouble

Or - if rebuilding schools and TIF financing for downtown construction isn't important, spend $100 million on streetscaping the city and repaving streets, tearing down some older buildings like abandoned strip malls and opening plazas up for redevelopment. Anything to make the city a better place.

Call it the new Memphis plan or a more savvy marketing oriented name. I don't care what you call it, but something geared toward making the city a better place instead of just one purpose. Mid-sized American cities constantly make the same mistakes over and over and over. A big new convention center in downtown Memphis won't increase downtown population, it won't develop the city. It'll make it a tourist destination for special events where one building sucks up all the energy off the street and people quickly leave. It'll be out of date within 15 years. The people who live in Memphis get wasted opportunity where that money could have gone elsewhere.

[arkitekte]

Originally Posted by Dr Nevergold

I don't think laying down new carpets and new bathrooms and furniture and fixtures and lighting would cost $400 million. Probably more like $40 million. I don't know, but anyone should strongly question spending $400-500 million on a convention center.

I doubt you'd be able to tell the difference with $40 million worth of improvements. You're going to be looking at something closer to $300 million to bring the Cook to standards that will accommodate decent sized conventions.

Originally Posted by Dr Nevergold

I never said screw the hotel bookings and flights that a convention brings in, all I said is that often these revenues and benefits are overstated. Also, there's only so much convention offerings to go around. A city has to weigh the benefits and drawbacks of investing what will need to be over $500 million to compete. Furthermore, a new convention center would need to be closer to $750 million so its built better than other new centers to compete against them. Is $750 million worth it right now?

Is it $400 or $500 or $750 million? I'm questioning how you think the Cook can compete with $40 million worth of carpet and new toilets when you think it would take $750 for a new convention center to compete.

There are many voices stating the obvious about these convention centers: they're single use, they often add little to streetlife, they're often out of date very quickly, and they take massive public dollars away from other investments.

That can literally be said about any structure that's built today regardless of the use. It's nothing unique to convention centers or sports venues.

If you want to invest that much hard cash in a convention center, by all means Memphis can do it if chosen as a priority for the city. But other needs in the city will go unaddressed as the property, hotel, and car rental taxes go up to fund what will be minimal return on the investment. The FedEx forum is 10 years old, it opened in fall 2004. It isn't like the city has stood idle on recent public building investments like this.

Minimal return on investment? Just because the $4.19 from someone's rental car doesn't go directly into a transportation fund doesn't mean there's a minimal return on investment. How well do you think South Main's bars and restaurants did during the week before the Grizz and Tigers moved to the Forum? Business owners now target that area because they know November through April they'll have solid business 2 or 3 week nights each week.

Do you not think that Nashville hasn't seen the same? I've seen quite the change downtown and in SoBro since the construction and completion of the MCC. How many tax dollars (in new property taxes) do you think that's generated with the construction of numerous new developments around the MCC? Do you honestly think AMP would have a wheel to roll on if it weren't for the MCC?

Look at the Pyramid, it was a public single use type facility that struggled and they finally had another taxpayer financed deal to provide it to Bass Pro Shops. Meanwhile, Memphis can't afford other things it needs. If you want to book a hotel room in Nashville, you're basically now paying right at 20% in taxes to do so. This has to disincentive other forms of tourism. Is this really better for the city? Not in my judgment. Nashville's condo boom and overall economic success isn't derived from the massive Music City Center complex. And again, I'm not saying put off upgrades on the existing center. Something should be done, absolutely. The city will have to debate what they think is best.

The Pyramid is nothing unique (other than it's design which made it so unpractical to redevelop).

I've learned something in my time in working in the built environment and that's the fact that nothing is developed off of a whim. Ignoring Manhattan and the Loop if you look at most large and decent sized cities (even smaller cities) they have to rely on publicly funded projects to spur private development. In turn, the private development benefits the area surrounding the public development.

[Dr Nevergold]

Line by line assessment, eh? LOL

You're free to disagree. But I've clearly made my thoughts on why Memphis could better spend public dollars to help the city as opposed to a single purpose facility where there's high risk, and not nearly as much reward as advertised.

Note that there was no questioning public investment to spur private development, quite the contrary. It may just be better when spending can be better done with other projects in addition to a renewing the existing center.

[arkitekte]

Originally Posted by Dr Nevergold

Since $400 million really isn't enough to compete with larger venues, why not set out $400 million for other initatives:

$100 million to extend the streetcar service out to Overton Square and into Overton Park up to the Zoo, purchasing new light rail vehicles so it becomes a modern system that is faster.

To Overton Square yes, however I don't think extending it north into Overton Park would be the best solution to solving what Midtowners need.

$50 million renovating the current convention center to make it look newer and more attractive

This wouldn't be enough and would surely be a waste of money. The Cook's main issue is with its size. They literally can't expand it unless the demo surrounding structures/infrastructure and structurally they would have to have a seismic overhaul to go vertically if the current structure could even accommodate new construction on top, which I'm most certain it can't.

$100 million fund to provide tax incentives to build a couple new highrise offices, hotels, and condo housing downtown, including maybe a new 30+ story hotel north of I-40 to connect to the convention center upgrades (including some large meeting rooms that are privately owned/managed by the hotel franchise)

That's much easier than it sounds. You going to suggest a financial package for the corporate relocation as well?

$150-200 million in capital projects to rebuild schools and police facilities around the city, and tie in some funding toward education after school programs to keep kids out of trouble

Are you familiar with the fiscal situations of the City when it comes to schools/fire/and police? Or is this all in theory?

Or - if rebuilding schools and TIF financing for downtown construction isn't important, spend $100 million on streetscaping the city and repaving streets, tearing down some older buildings like abandoned strip malls and opening plazas up for redevelopment. Anything to make the city a better place.

It's actually somewhat healthier to leave vacant buildings standing rather than tear them down. Removing them completely creates gaps in neighborhoods which in turn lowers the property value. I can tell you that from seeing it happen continuously from a planning stand point.

Call it the new Memphis plan or a more savvy marketing oriented name. I don't care what you call it, but something geared toward making the city a better place instead of just one purpose. Mid-sized American cities constantly make the same mistakes over and over and over. A big new convention center in downtown Memphis won't increase downtown population, it won't develop the city. It'll make it a tourist destination for special events where one building sucks up all the energy off the street and people quickly leave. It'll be out of date within 15 years. The people who live in Memphis get wasted opportunity where that money could have gone elsewhere.

Speculation much? I've seen numerous examples of convention centers or other publicly funded projects being developed that have led to private development.


It's just all a big coincidence in Nashville though.

[arkitekte]

Originally Posted by Dr Nevergold

Line by line assessment, eh? LOL

You're free to disagree. But I've clearly made my thoughts on why Memphis could better spend public dollars to help the city as opposed to a single purpose facility where there's high risk, and not nearly as much reward as advertised.

Note that there was no questioning public investment to spur private development, quite the contrary. It may just be better when spending can be better done with other projects in addition to a renewing the existing center.

Lazy Saturday before football comes on. Should I have asked for permission first?

I'm just stating what I've generally seen from a city planning standpoint working in government. Publicly funded projects are what generally motivate private developers to invest in a neighborhood to redevelop an area. It's almost impossible not to.

[Dr Nevergold]

What I've seen over my life are mistakes by American cities that keep the cities behind in so many areas. American planning leaves a lot to be desired quite frankly, cities need to start re-examining how they became the suburban, downtown office parks they've become. You asked the question why bother with spending $50 million at all to spruce up the Cook center. Well, my friend, doesn't that just indicate that these things require nonstop public assistance? The Cook convention center is clearly a 2nd tier center, it can't complete for first tier conventions, but the building isn't junk. Its just smaller in physical size, but not so small it can't host conventions. It can host second tier events quite well. To continue doing so requires some sort of investment, these buildings aren't self sustaining - clearly - and need upkeep. I didn't say abandon it.

You're talking to a liberal, not some anti-government anti-spender. I'm just saying spending may be better when directed at other priorities.

Again, if Memphis as a community thinks a convention center should be top priority, I have no doubt that it will be.

And why end an updated Streetcar into Overton Park or Square? Because its incremental improvement, it isn't some grandiose scheme that will be hard to pass and hard to finance. And converting to new light rail vehicles will help the overall system. Just spending $75 to $100 million extending it and buying new LRV's will create nearly 8 miles of central city service with modern vehicles, its a no brainer to consider this IMO.

It may be worth reading that link from earlier. I'll quote some more:

http://www.citylab.com/cityfixer/201...-centers/2210/

By all counts, Causton and his team have been wildly successful. McCormick Place's 2.2 million square feet host the greatest fraction of top tradeshows in the country. At its peak, in 1996, it hosted 30 large-scale events (attended by some 1.1 million people). That's more events than are hosted in Las Vegas, New York, or Atlanta.

Still, despite all these advantages, Chicago's been struggling to keep up. Between 2001 and 2011, the number delegates attending trade shows and meetings at McCormick place fell about 37 percent, from 1,333,906 to 828,013.

This, in turn, leaves fewer and fewer options for second-tier cities. If Chicago is feeling the burn, what chance does Cincinnati have, or Buffalo?

And to add onto that last sentence, I'd certainly add Memphis. St Louis already has a large convention center, requiring public assistance to keep it going and booked. Does that *really* pay off at the end of the day? No.

If you think offering $100 million in incentives to build new offices, condos, and other projects in downtown wouldn't spur development, then what other ideas do you have? I've always been the type of person to entertain more ideas, not fewer.

[arkitekte]

Originally Posted by Dr Nevergold

What I've seen over my life are mistakes by American cities that keep the cities behind in so many areas. American planning leaves a lot to be desired quite frankly, cities need to start re-examining how they became the suburban, downtown office parks they've become. You asked the question why bother with spending $50 million at all to spruce up the Cook center. Well, my friend, doesn't that just indicate that these things require nonstop public assistance? The Cook convention center is clearly a 2nd tier center, it can't complete for first tier conventions, but the building isn't junk. Its just smaller in physical size, but not so small it can't host conventions. It can host second tier events quite well. To continue doing so requires some sort of investment, these buildings aren't self sustaining - clearly - and need upkeep. I didn't say abandon it.

I don't disagree that it takes constant public assistance. I'm all for that. What I'm saying is that $50 million wouldn't be a wise investment to a property that's lacked constant upgrades over it's lifetime. $50 million wouldn't go very far. $300 million would, but at that point it would be wise to consider new construction all together; especially considering the potential urban renaissance that it would spark.

And why end an updated Streetcar into Overton Park or Square? Because its incremental improvement, it isn't some grandiose scheme that will be hard to pass and hard to finance. And converting to new light rail vehicles will help the overall system. Just spending $75 to $100 million extending it and buying new LRV's will create nearly 8 miles of central city service with modern vehicles, its a no brainer to consider this IMO.

I never said that it wouldn't be a wise way to spend money. I think Memphians would actually use it; especially in the Madison Ave corridor. The use of modern street cars would socially work better than the current bus system or BRT, IMO. Not because their so much more efficient, but mainly because there's a certain stigma to riding the bus that many people can't get past.

And to add onto that last sentence, I'd certainly add Memphis. St Louis already has a large convention center, requiring public assistance to keep it going and booked. Does that *really* pay off at the end of the day? No.

If you think offering $100 million in incentives to build new offices, condos, and other projects in downtown wouldn't spur development, then what other ideas do you have? I've always been the type of person to entertain more ideas, not fewer.

It takes much more than offering incentives to get private developers or companies to build office space downtown. Unfortunately for Memphis and other cities whose CBD's aren't central to the population this is an issue. Companies want to be located in an area where their employees and especially their corporate force can easily get to and from work. In Memphis' case this is out east. You have to realistically consider this before budgeting money to lure developers to an area that hasn't been touched by this market in the terms of new construction is decades. If this weren't the case companies would have no problem expanding their office space downtown rather than in East Memphis off of 240 or 385.

It's evident that the idea of constructing new office space downtown is something that is hard to produce. Therefore, the City needs to work on things that can bring new construction/development and new life to downtown. This can be done in the form of residential additions and tourism. I'm all for the addition of one or two new residential towers downtown, however, I don't think that's possible due to a number of reasons. Is there a developer who financially could develop an all residential tower downtown and then fill that tower with people who could afford the high rents or high condo prices that also work downtown to where it would be logical for them to drive 30 minutes one way out east to work? I don't think so.

Would it be nice to have new office space downtown? Yes. Am I for that? Yes. Is it as logical as new convention space or new residential space? No.

[Wayward Memphian]

Originally Posted by Dr Nevergold

There are many voices stating the obvious about these convention centers: they're single use, they often add little to streetlife, they're often out of date very quickly, and they take massive public dollars away from other investments well beyond the initial capital investment on the front. If you want to invest that much hard cash in a convention center, by all means Memphis can do it if chosen as a priority for the city. But other needs in the city will go unaddressed as the property, hotel, and car rental taxes go up to fund what will be minimal return on the investment. The FedEx forum is 10 years old, it opened in fall 2004. It isn't like the city has stood idle on recent public building investments like this. And yes I think the FedEx forum is a success, but is another massive publicly financed center needed right now?

This is why I always throw out the stadium component of a new Memphis Convention Center. That playing field is lots of square footage that can be used as convention/tradeshow space. It's not just for football.



I've already posted too much on this but here goes

Abiltiy to host later rounds of NCAA basketball tourney because only the lower rounds are held in arenas this days


Hey I hear Taylor Swift and Garth Brooks are touring, maximize that attendance with the masses


oh the Liberty Bowl, It gets #%^&ing cold


Along with other things that can be held there.

I like what Detriot is doing with the Redwings new arena where it's lined with other development,

[arkitekte]

^The Forum's no compete clause might have some objections to that. A multi purpose convention center is good, but a 60,000+ stadium within it isn't justifiable, IMO.

[Dr Nevergold]

I'm not yet convinced that a brand new, $500-700 million convention center facility would benefit Memphis based on the amount of debt it'd levy on the city. However, I'm not an anti-development person and if the extra cash is laying around someday would like to see a new convention center eventually. Maybe the city will be in a better position in 10-15 years to look into that. Debt servicing from the FedEx forum is still being paid off, and they just had to re-package the Pyramid with an expensive public finance scheme. The city honestly can't handle it right now, IMO.

As stated before, I think it'd be more prudent for Memphis to have a more holistic plan to benefit the citizens directly.

I would start with other business and residential development incentives in the core, and combine that with an extension and major upgrade of the trolley service. Memphis is very, very fortunate to have already built over 6 miles of LRV compatible track in the central city. I'd heed the fights from years past when Cooper-Young as a district opposed the previous LRT system through its neighborhood. Knowing what we know, I'd opt to extend the Madison line to Overton Square, and if its within funding parameters send it north into the park and the Zoo as its end-point. It isn't a weird configuration at all, it makes a lot of sense as the park and Zoo are a tourist and local destination. It also keeps the system small enough so that its functional. Light rail or streetcars when in-street operate too slowly to function as a city-wide regional transport system and this keeps it a local city line.

If new LRV's weren't required, you could easily do it for $75 million or maybe even less (you're talking about a distance of barely 2 miles into the park from the existing end point). But I'd opt to purchase new LRV's and make Memphis' streetcar operate with modern vehicles. This will certainly cost $100 million and also ensure the existing system is properly maintained/updated.

Considering you can at least get 50% federal matching funds, this should be a no brainer. The city might only have to invest $25 million if you get $25m from the state and $50m from the feds.

Or if the city can swing it, make it a $125 million investment and don't end it in the Zoo parking lot, but curve to the east, go across Poplar, and into Rhodes College as the end point. That seems within the cost per mile of what these systems would be.

This is a more meaningful investment for Memphis at this time.

[Dr Nevergold]

And I want to make a final point as I'm tired of talking about convention centers, the costs of doing massive public investments into these types of buildings does have consequences.

Pittsburgh funded three major projects all around the same time: PNC Park (MLB baseball), Heinz Field (Steelers Football), and then it did a mega-convention center rebuild (David Lawrence Convention Center) all around the late 90's/early 00's.

Pittsburgh subsequently went insolvent and the state of Pennsylvania came in to take over the city for a few years. It is well documented, and its worth reading. Given that Memphis has had a major public building investment twice in the last two decades, and just had to spend a lot to refinance a very expensive Pyramid redevelopment plan, I think the facts are on my side by saying this issue needs to rest for another 10-20 years before being picked back up.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...-trouble_x.htm

Pittsburgh has run budget deficits for more than a decade. Standard & Poor's, a company that assesses the ability of governments to repay debt, recently lowered the city's credit rating to junk-bond status, the worst of any major U.S. city. The money problems are starting to hit residents in visible ways: Pittsburgh has closed pools, cut hours at senior centers, reduced street cleaning and canceled the city's annual marathon.

The state has named two law firms to craft a financial recovery plan now that the Legislature has officially declared Pittsburgh "distressed."

Pittsburgh has since rebounded, but not after a huge financial setback that left it in the hands of state control for a few years. Its worth noting that property taxes skyrocketed in the region, and to own a home valued at $150,000 you'll easily be paying $3,000 annually, if not more in certain areas. With property taxes so high, business and people will locate to a Memphis or an Atlanta before it'll consider Pittsburgh. Property taxes are half the price of Pittsburgh in Memphis, that does have economic development value. I lived in Pittsburgh in the summer of 2006 and from fall 2007 until fall 2008, so I got to know the property taxes there quite well and why it was inflated.

...to ignore these realities is to ignore facts surrounding these investments. Investments have to be made appropriately and prudently.

[arkitekte]

^You do realize that the solid majority of cities' sports stadiums and convention centers are funded by taxes, don't you? Picking one or two cities here or there isn't proving a point other than it's an occurrence. For every city you can find that's gone broke from a convention center or sports venue I can find you 4 or 5 if not more that have under gone urban renaissances from the same product.

[Dr Nevergold]

If you read what I've said, I am for development. I'm not against taxpayer financed public facilities. But I'm not for spending like a drunken sailor just because a project seems cool.

Didn't Memphis just spend $215 million on a Pyramid redevelopment plan? And did the city not just spend hundreds of millions the decade prior to build FedEx Forum? And that was after investing into the Pyramid, which in retrospect was a total flop since they just had to spend massive re-investment on that very property??

Right now isn't the time to make another $500 million investment in a convention center in my judgment. It is bad timing for the public purse. There are other priorities worth investing in, and if you had a $100-125 million streetcar modernization and expansion project, the city would only foot about $25-30 million for it. Better bang for the buck by far as all transit upgrades and lines tend to attract development dollars and sustainable long term property tax collections from the new developments. Even though Madison Ave corridor is well developed, it has room for improvement, and a good model to look at is Cleveland, OH. The Healthline BRT (similar to a streetcar service) spawned $5.8 billion in development:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcma...nd-streetcars/

Its a similar corridor to Madison in that its already developed, but with serious transit it redeveloped much of the area with more condos and businesses. Long term benefits and better tax base for the city.

I'm in the job market, and I've found absolutely nothing in Nashville since the end of this summer. If I end up staying in Tennessee, I am confident I'll probably end up in Memphis as I've lived there before and always thought it had more character than anywhere else in the state. This Nashville job market hype is well overstated and the prices for living in the city are also well overstated now. If I am a citizen of Memphis, I'd much rather have a tangible service I can use regularly than to look at a shiny convention center that the city can't afford just so tourists can enjoy the city for a few days.

Wouldn't most people feel the same? I'd assume so. There isn't free cash flowing around for a convention center.