NEW YORK | Port Authority Bus Terminal Replacement

[BBMW]

It looks like Xanadu/American Dream/whatever their calling the mall next to the Meadolands this week, is dieing again. If it finally kicks the bucket, that would be a prime location to build the PABT replacement. Wonderful highway access + vast amounts of parking that usually empty.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by BBMW

It looks like Xanadu/American Dream/whatever their calling the mall next to the Meadolands this week, is dieing again.

That mall is like 85% finished. It will be completed, obvs.

And that would be a terrible place for a bus terminal. In any case, NJ would never allow it.

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by BBMW

It looks like Xanadu/American Dream/whatever their calling the mall next to the Meadolands this week, is dieing again. If it finally kicks the bucket, that would be a prime location to build the PABT replacement. Wonderful highway access + vast amounts of parking that usually empty.

Wait, do you mean that terrible Olivia Newton John movie?

[jamesinclair]

Originally Posted by Crawford

What's your solution? The PABT has no room. None.

Where are you going to put the buses?

Follow the conversation.

Its crazy how billions are being spent but the thousands of passengers who ride Megabus and Boltbus every day dont even get a simple shelter.

I dont see anything in the plans about accommodating the bus passengers. I guess they dont matter,

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by jamesinclair

Follow the conversation.

I'm following the conversation just fine, you just aren't answering the question.

You're whining about too many buses on city streets, but have no solution. So what's your solution? Where do you want to put the buses?

[NYguy]

http://rew-online.com/2016/05/09/arc...-bus-terminal/

Architects weigh in on new proposal to replace Port Authority bus terminal





BY REW
MAY 9, 2016

In order to provide Greater New York with an optimally designed structure to replace the aging Port Authority Bus Terminal on Manhattan’s West 42nd Street, AIA New Jersey, AIA New York and AIA New York State collaborated with the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey to refine the architectural design competition for their new bus terminal.

The changes allow for more equitable compensation and protection of intellectual property rights for architects submitting designs for the new terminal.

“The Port Authority’s 66-year old structure is a transit hub for more than 200,000 daily commuters, and we wanted to ensure that the monumental task of designing a replacement terminal would be guided by industry best practices,” said Justin Mihalik, AIA, president of AIA New Jersey.

“Through a dialogue-driven collaboration between the Port Authority and the New York City, New York State and New Jersey chapters of the AIA, we were ultimately able to work together to create a better design competition that will provide the Port Authority with a higher number and caliber of design submissions.”

The competition enhancements included an extension of the submission deadline to better reflect the complexity of the project, stronger intellectual property protection for submitted designs, and the addition of honorariums for each of the five entries that advance to the second stage.

The Port Authority adopted the changes suggested by AIA chapters less than a week after they were presented.

“Our successful recalibration of the design competition clearly illustrates how the public can benefit when various entities engage in open dialogue,” added Mihalik.

“Led by the New York and New York State chapters of the AIA, we communicated to the Port Authority the best practices laid out by the AIA’s 2011 Handbook of Architectural Design Competition, and explained how adopting these guidelines would ultimately improve the quality of the new terminal’s design. We’re grateful that the Port Authority was open to working with us to improve the competition and that they were able to improve the conditions on a very short timetable.”

This collaboration between AIA chapters comes on the heels of several other successful multi-chapter initiatives. In the wake of Hurricane Sandy, the organization’s New Jersey, New York State, New York City, Connecticut and Rhode Island chapters organized the AIA Regional Recovery Working Group, which coordinated workshops on storm preparedness and resiliency.

[BBMW]

And has been for quite some time. And it's the perfect place for a bus terminal. It abuts the major roads the buses are coming in on, and it has a gigantic parking lot that's empty almost every weekday.

Originally Posted by Crawford

That mall is like 85% finished. It will be completed, obvs.

And that would be a terrible place for a bus terminal. In any case, NJ would never allow it.

[BBMW]

It's starting to get ugly. And NY politicians want the PA to look at pushing the bus terminal to NJ and use rail links to bring in the bus riders. PA board president telling them to screw off.

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...alert-20160721

Really, I'm thinking the PA has outlived it's usefulness and needs to be broken up. Facilities wholly in either of the two states should be transferred to those states. The interstate, bridges, tunnels and rail system (PATH) would remain with a stub of the existing agency, that would only manage those assets.

[C.]

^ Yup!!

http://www.lohud.com/story/news/tran...inal/87563940/

Elected officials with ties to New York City's west side are asking the Port Authority to back off its push to replace the much-maligned Port Authority Bus Terminal.

In a letter to Port Authority Chairman John Degnan and Vice Chairman Steve Cohen last Thursday, Congressman Jerrold Nadler, Manhattan Borough President Gale Brewer, State Sen. Brad Hoylman, Assembly members Richard Gottfried and Linda Rosenthal and city councilman Corey Johnson asked the bi-state agency to end the new terminal design competition launched in March and seek more local input for the new, potentially $15 billion terminal.

"It would be a grave disservice, not only to our constituents, but to all the people of New York and New Jersey, to proceed with the competition for a new (Port Authority Bus Terminal) before a thorough and public examination is conducted of all of the outstanding issues and all of the available alternatives regarding a new bus terminal," the six wrote. "We demand that the Port Authority immediately terminate the competition."

Given the track record of the Port Authority, the selection committee will probably pick a dysfunctional design like the Stegosaurus carcass in lower Manhattan (the Oculus). If so, I hope the NY pols blow these assholes away. It's too important of a site to f*ck up.

[C.]

Anyway, I'm confident they will still have to consider a New Jersey option. Initial estimates peg the cost to rebuild the bus terminal at $10.5 billion, meaning it will probably be $40 billion before all is said and done. That's too much money for even the Port Authority to squander and the land is too value not to consider selling it off to finance the other Port Authority pet projects.

A bus terminal in New Jersey shuttling in people to Manhattan by train is the way to go

[Nexis4Jersey]

Like Ive said before adding a 2 seat ride is not going fly with people who commute by bus... This seems to becoming a classic New Jersey vs New York turf war...which I doubt NJ will ever compromise....neither will the MTA with a 7 extension... Moving the bus terminal to NJ seems purely driven by Real Estate rather then costs.... While the terminal on the NJ side might be cheaper , the connecting infrastructure adds fast and could easily overtake anything on the NYC side...

[k1052]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

Like Ive said before adding a 2 seat ride is not going fly with people who commute by bus... This seems to becoming a classic New Jersey vs New York turf war...which I doubt NJ will ever compromise....neither will the MTA with a 7 extension... Moving the bus terminal to NJ seems purely driven by Real Estate rather then costs.... While the terminal on the NJ side might be cheaper , the connecting infrastructure adds fast and could easily overtake anything on the NYC side...

I'm curious when they're going to cough up the capacity study. I'm suspecting that whatever they intend to build really won't accommodate future growth much at all and that $15B will be spent to maintain the status quo. Such a large investment in a project that will merely prop up an unsustainable commute pattern should be called into question.

Now if you want to talk about rail reactivation, expanding services, and figuring out how to get most of those people one seat rides into Manhattan I'm all ears however NJ shows no political appetite for any expansion of NJT rail service and can barely keep it operating as is. Even if the PA spent the $15 building out that kind of infrastructure NJT couldn't afford to run it.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Originally Posted by k1052

I'm curious when they're going to cough up the capacity study. I'm suspecting that whatever they intend to build really won't accommodate future growth much at all and that $15B will be spent to maintain the status quo. Such a large investment in a project that will merely prop up an unsustainable commute pattern should be called into question.

Now if you want to talk about rail reactivation, expanding services, and figuring out how to get most of those people one seat rides into Manhattan I'm all ears however NJ shows no political appetite for any expansion of NJT rail service and can barely keep it operating as is. Even if the PA spent the $15 building out that kind of infrastructure NJT couldn't afford to run it.

So if NJT can't fiqure out to pay for things , how will shifting the terminal onto the NJ fix anything? Neither side wants to pay for anything... If the 7 does come to NJ it should go to Hoboken Terminal or into Jersey City which badly needs alt to the overcrowded PATH & local bus. If it went to Hoboken Terminal you can easily reactivate Rail lines in Central Jersey and Western Jersey where most of the bus volume is coming from... Hoboken Terminal is underused so you can easily double the amount of trains without causing issues.. I would also raise the Terminal 15ft and add high level platforms... The Gateway would still be needed , but by targeting the key bus regions you wouldn't need to build a second terminal as the volume would shift over to the Rails... The only reason the 7 seems to be sent to Secaucus is for Real Estate redevelopment of Secaucus...it would be better if it went to Jersey City or Hoboken Terminal at least it would address some major transit congestion issues that are 2x worse then the NEC/Bus congestion...

[k1052]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

So if NJT can't fiqure out to pay for things , how will shifting the terminal onto the NJ fix anything? Neither side wants to pay for anything... If the 7 does come to NJ it should go to Hoboken Terminal or into Jersey City which badly needs alt to the overcrowded PATH & local bus. If it went to Hoboken Terminal you can easily reactivate Rail lines in Central Jersey and Western Jersey where most of the bus volume is coming from... Hoboken Terminal is underused so you can easily double the amount of trains without causing issues.. I would also raise the Terminal 15ft and add high level platforms... The Gateway would still be needed , but by targeting the key bus regions you wouldn't need to build a second terminal as the volume would shift over to the Rails... The only reason the 7 seems to be sent to Secaucus is for Real Estate redevelopment of Secaucus...it would be better if it went to Jersey City or Hoboken Terminal at least it would address some major transit congestion issues that are 2x worse then the NEC/Bus congestion...

Your plan probably spends more money and still gives those former bus commuters (a longer now) two seat ride. Also, NJT can't afford to operate reactivated rail lines even if the PA built everything and handed it over.

As far as the MTA expanding into NJ it should be a no brainer if the political situation were not so balkanized. Logically the L and the 7 should both run into Hudson Country and service multiple local stops.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Originally Posted by k1052

Your plan probably spends more money and still gives those former bus commuters (a longer now) two seat ride. Also, NJT can't afford to operate reactivated rail lines even if the PA built everything and handed it over.

As far as the MTA expanding into NJ it should be a no brainer if the political situation were not so balkanized. Logically the L and the 7 should both run into Hudson Country and service multiple local stops.

The regional rail expansions combined are a few billion , I would estimate around 300,000 riders could be pulled off the bus network and out of their cars... It would most likely be same in terms of costs and you could sell some of the NJT Air rights in Hoboken to pay for at least half of it... The L into Hoboken and then down into Jersey City would be easier then the 7 now that I think about it.. I expect once Christie leaves off for their to be a Rail expansion boom again...so it is very possible for the expansions and restorations to happen... The commute if feed into Hoboken would be a one seat ride + a short subway or path connection. The Hoboken division of the PATH is underused so you could easily add more riders to it...

[BBMW]

More political rancor. This is going to be a pretty big fight. Nadler getting involved is important, as I'm sure the PA will be looking for federal money to fund at least part of this project.

http://www.politico.com/states/new-y...meeting-104635

[TechTalkGuy]

Do they have any idea how many people would be running late for work as they commute into the city during the week?
Sometimes you just park in the garage and walk a few blocks to your destination, skipping mass transit.

I am a huge fan of the terminal as it is.
My SkyscraperPage profile pic was taken from the rooftop parking!
Beautiful rooftop parking, immediate subway access, exit portal to 8th Ave.
You just can't imagine the massive undesirable results of this ridiculous idea.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by TechTalkGuy

Do they have any idea how many people would be running late for work as they commute into the city during the week?
Sometimes you just park in the garage and walk a few blocks to your destination, skipping mass transit.

I am a huge fan of the terminal as it is.
My SkyscraperPage profile pic was taken from the rooftop parking!
Beautiful rooftop parking, immediate subway access, exit portal to 8th Ave.
You just can't imagine the massive undesirable results of this ridiculous idea.

The argument is not if it should be replaced but how and where. The existing structure has a finite lifespan before it becomes unusable. It will be going away eventually one way or another.

[Crawford]

The terminal is done. It will be replaced by something bigger and more efficient.

There will probably be a battle, though, as with almost all major land use decisions in Manhattan. The NIMBYs will fight the new terminal, as it will be gigantic, and will level a few blocks. Probably less likely they protest the huge towers that will replace the current terminal, as practically no one lives around there. They could build 2,000 ft. towers and I doubt the NIMBYs would care.

[TechTalkGuy]

Originally Posted by Crawford

The terminal is done. The NIMBYs will fight the new terminal, as it will be gigantic, and will level a few blocks.

This is just wrong!