Interprovincial bridge crossing discussion

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

I may be mis-remembering but I believe the traffic study used to choose the location said otherwise. East of the bridge or even just west of it would save time over lots of routes. Carleton and points south for sure, DFAIT and Byward Market and I would argue even Centretown which is a very quick drive from points on Hemlock right now. You could argue it would be the fastest route to Portage though of course the increase in traffic might negate that route. I had a girlfriend who lived in Manor Park and I could make it to the side streets this side of Portage usually in 15 minutes.

But we are talking about if access to/from Hemlock was blocked from the bridge. The detour via Montreal Rd would be considerably longer, especially after it has been narrowed to 3 lanes.

[Acajack]

I am also trying to think of how many traffic lights there are on the Montreal-Rideau from Aviation Parkway to the Rideau Centre. Several dozen at least.

Also the right hand lane on Montreal Road is a bus lane during rush hour, and it's also a bus lane for much of Rideau as well.

So during rush hour this route basically functions with one traffic lane in each direction.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I am also trying to think of how many traffic lights there are on the Montreal-Rideau from Aviation Parkway to the Rideau Centre. Several dozen at least.

Also the right hand lane on Montreal Road is a bus lane during rush hour, and it's also a bus lane for much of Rideau as well.

So during rush hour this route basically functions with one traffic lane in each direction.

Not for much longer. They will be replacing the bus lanes on Montreal Road with bike lanes, which will make it even more congested than it is today. Once completed, between Vanier Parkway and St. Laurent Boulevard there will be:

• Three lane cross section, two lanes in the westbound direction and 1 lane in the eastbound direction
• Westbound curb lane is a transit lane during the AM peak and a parking lane at all other times
• Raised unidirectional cycle tracks and concrete sidewalks on both sides of the roadway

see: Montreal Road Revitalization

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by roger1818

But we are talking about if access to/from Hemlock was blocked from the bridge. The detour via Montreal Rd would be considerably longer, especially after it has been narrowed to 3 lanes.

Yes this would be totally different story. I know people who live further east in Beacon Hill where they have inconvenient access to Rockcliffe Parkway and their commute is substantially longer.

For all my complaining if we build this bridge it seems crazy to me we wouldn't put access on the Parkway or Hemlock. No Parkway access would be typical for Ottawa as we like to pretend these are scenic routes not jammed with commuters, but removing the ramps on Hemlock as well seems really excessive and would limit the usefulness of the bridge.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Not for much longer. They will be replacing the bus lanes on Montreal Road with bike lanes, which will make it even more congested than it is today. Once completed, between Vanier Parkway and St. Laurent Boulevard there will be:

• Three lane cross section, two lanes in the westbound direction and 1 lane in the eastbound direction
• Westbound curb lane is a transit lane during the AM peak and a parking lane at all other times
• Raised unidirectional cycle tracks and concrete sidewalks on both sides of the roadway

see: Montreal Road Revitalization

That doesn't exactly scream "new rush hour commuter route from Buckingham to downtown Ottawa - yay!" to me.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Yes this would be totally different story. I know people who live further east in Beacon Hill where they have inconvenient access to Rockcliffe Parkway and their commute is substantially longer.

For all my complaining if we build this bridge it seems crazy to me we wouldn't put access on the Parkway or Hemlock. No Parkway access would be typical for Ottawa as we like to pretend these are scenic routes not jammed with commuters, but removing the ramps on Hemlock as well seems really excessive and would limit the usefulness of the bridge.

The local residents would need to decide which is more important, easy access to the bridge or quiet streets. I am not a fan of dumping large amounts of traffic onto residential streets, so if it were up to me, I would lean towards restricting access to the bridge.

As long as access to the 417 is good, I don't think the usefulness of the bridge would be restricted. Also having access to key arterials (like Ogilvie and Montreal Rds) would boost the usefulness.

Interestingly, checking the TMP, Hemlock/Beechwood is designated an Arterial west of St. Laurent, but only a collector (not even a major collector) east of it; however, that is just a designation and could be changed. I do find that surprising though as the entire length feels more like a major collector to me, but what do I know.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by roger1818

The local residents would need to decide which is more important, easy access to the bridge or quiet streets. I am not a fan of dumping large amounts of traffic onto residential streets, so if it were up to me, I would lean towards restricting access to the bridge.

As long as access to the 417 is good, I don't think the usefulness of the bridge would be restricted. Also having access to key arterials (like Ogilvie and Montreal Rds) would boost the usefulness.

Interestingly, checking the TMP, Hemlock/Beechwood is designated an Arterial west of St. Laurent, but only a collector (not even a major collector) east of it; however, that is just a designation and could be changed. I do find that surprising though as the entire length feels more like a major collector to me, but what do I know.

I suspect a very large percentage of Rockcliffe and Manor Park residents would agree with you. New Edinburgh and Linden Lea too, because New Edinburgh and Linden Lea ..

[JM1]

+1 on this one.

The East End bridge doesn't solve the truck problem. If we are just looking at moving people and not goods, then invest in transit connections, not new traffic lanes.

New traffic lanes which will only encourage more people to commute longer distances -- by car -- thereby lowering quality of life in the city.

Originally Posted by YOWetal

So you live in Eastern Ottawa and frequently go to eastern Gatineau? There must be like 20 people fitting this description.

Destroyed is of course hyperbole but Manor Park will be swamped by traffic from this proposal. The Rockcliffe Parkway will become total gridlock. It will certainly hurt more peoples commutes than vice versa. I commuted to Gatineau for several years and there certainly isn't a need for more capacity in that direction. Even from Rockland to almost anywhere in Gatineau where there is employment you would be better off continuing to the 5. Well after this it might make sense as the west bound routes will be so much worse in Ottawa.

If we are going to spend a $Billion linking Gatineau and Ottawa let's link their rapid transit systems.

[JM1]

Hemlock is an arterial road by designation, but it wont have the capacity to handle traffic coming off the bridge and heading West. It will already see a great increase in traffic from the former CFB Rockcliffe neighbourhood.

In the mornings, there is traffic stagnation on Hemlock/Beechwood Westbound when you get to Beechwood. Likewise, the intersection of St. Patrick/Vanier Parkway/Beechwood is already at capacity (or above it).

Montreal Road is no better.

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I suspect a very large percentage of Rockcliffe and Manor Park residents would agree with you. New Edinburgh and Linden Lea too, because New Edinburgh and Linden Lea ..

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by JM1

Hemlock is an arterial road by designation, but it wont have the capacity to handle traffic coming off the bridge and heading West. It will already see a great increase in traffic from the former CFB Rockcliffe neighbourhood.

In the mornings, there is traffic stagnation on Hemlock/Beechwood Westbound when you get to Beechwood. Likewise, the intersection of St. Patrick/Vanier Parkway/Beechwood is already at capacity (or above it).

Montreal Road is no better.

Yes, it is noticeably worse than it was, say, ten years ago. I've long wondered about access to the former CFB development from Hemlock - at the moment, the road is blocked, no?

[JM1]

The direct connection is blocked, but traffic will come out onto Montreal Road, go up St Laurent and then along Beechwood/Hemlock. Once they connect Hemlock to the new community and the community builds out, traffic will worsen.

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Yes, it is noticeably worse than it was, say, ten years ago. I've long wondered about access to the former CFB development from Hemlock - at the moment, the road is blocked, no?

[khabibulin]

Originally Posted by JM1

The direct connection is blocked, but traffic will come out onto Montreal Road, go up St Laurent and then along Beechwood/Hemlock. Once they connect Hemlock to the new community and the community builds out, traffic will worsen.

And don't forget that St. Laurent was recently reduced from 4 lanes to two lanes between Montreal Rd. and Hemlock.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by khabibulin

And don't forget that St. Laurent was recently reduced from 4 lanes to two lanes between Montreal Rd. and Hemlock.

Really. Why did that happen?

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Really. Why did that happen?

Good Day.

Yup.... been this way for some time now.

Reason.....traffic calming, pedestrian crossing, and the always biggie - bicycle lanes. Remember, this is Fleury's ward, and it was built at his behest, along with the b-lanes along Hemlock and Beechwood to the Vanier Parkway.
Overall, they are not terrible.....except when you get to the stretch from Marier to the V-Parkway (the dipsy-doodles are terrible there).

So, the traffic load at rush flows -sufficiently- on St.Laurent, but backs up at the smallest excuse. And it backs up totally westbound on Beechwood, on back onto Hemlock. Any additional load, such as the CanLands Rockcliffe coming online, will clog it utterly (bumper-to-bumper) the entire distance even today, let alone a bridge feed.

That would be - NoJoy!

[JM1]

If I remember correctly, there were a couple of fatalities on St Laurent between Hemlock and Montreal. I recall a child being hit there crossing from the bus stops on the West side of St Laurent to the houses on the East side.

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

Good Day.

Yup.... been this way for some time now.

Reason.....traffic calming, pedestrian crossing, and the always biggie - bicycle lanes. Remember, this is Fleury's ward, and it was built at his behest, along with the b-lanes along Hemlock and Beechwood to the Vanier Parkway.
Overall, they are not terrible.....except when you get to the stretch from Marier to the V-Parkway (the dipsy-doodles are terrible there).

So, the traffic load at rush flows -sufficiently- on St.Laurent, but backs up at the smallest excuse. And it backs up totally westbound on Beechwood, on back onto Hemlock. Any additional load, such as the CanLands Rockcliffe coming online, will clog it utterly (bumper-to-bumper) the entire distance even today, let alone a bridge feed.

That would be - NoJoy!

[eltodesukane]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Really. Why did that happen?

bicycle lanes on St Laurent

[passwordisnt123]

Interesting development. Looks like Catherine McKenna just came out in favour of a new interprovincial crossing between Ottawa and Gatineau. https://tvagatineau.ca/blogue/articl...ur-dun-6e-pont

[daud]

Originally Posted by passwordisnt123

Interesting development. Looks like Catherine McKenna just came out in favour of a new interprovincial crossing between Ottawa and Gatineau. https://tvagatineau.ca/blogue/articl...ur-dun-6e-pont

Hope springs eternal...

The holdout will be the Ontario Government. There needs to be a change of mindset from their current point of view for this to move forward.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

Reason.....traffic calming, pedestrian crossing, and the always biggie - bicycle lanes. Remember, this is Fleury's ward, and it was built at his behest, along with the b-lanes along Hemlock and Beechwood to the Vanier Parkway.

The section of St-Laurent is part of Rideau-Rockcliffe, and these lanes were implemented when Tobi Nussbaum was the councillor.

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

The section of St-Laurent is part of Rideau-Rockcliffe, and these lanes were implemented when Tobi Nussbaum was the councillor.

Good Day.

True - my bad.

But the comment still applies, to both of them.
(He cooperated with Fleury on the Beechwood stretch of redesign for bike lanes. That west part of the ward boundary is Beechwood itself. )

Thx.