Italian neighborhoods in North America

[Docere]

"Little Italies" and other urban Italian neighborhoods are of course a shadow of once they were as old immigrants died off and younger generations moved to the suburbs and became more assimilated (although suburban enclaves did develop such as the South Shore of Staten Island, St. Leonard outside Montreal and Woodbridge outside Toronto). What are some of the most intact Italian neighborhoods at this point?

My guess is the most intact at this point are Bensonhurst/Dyker Heights/Bath Beach in SW Brooklyn, and the Dufferin-St. Clair "Corso Italia" in Toronto (a further flung neighborhood from Toronto's Little Italy). They've declined significantly from the 1990s on and are now quite ethnically mixed but still retain a lot of old school Italians who can still get by in the mother tongue.

[Docere]

AFAIK Bensonhurst and environs it really wasn't a major Italian area until the 1950s and 1960s, when it saw an influx of postwar immigration. The Federal Writers Project report on the city's Italians, written in 1938, didn't mention Bensonhurst among the city's major Italian areas. Glazer and Moynihan's Beyond the Melting Pot, written in the early 1960s, neglected to mention it when the discussed the city's Italian neighborhoods even as this immigration was underway.

I think it was mainly Jewish in the 1930s and 1940s - some famous Jews from Bensonhurst include Larry King, Carl Sagan and Sandy Koufax.

[north 42]

Via Italia (Erie St.) is the "Little Italy" in Windsor, but also for Detroit. It has grown organically and is still the Italian area of the city. Lots of shops and amazing restaurants, bars and cafes.

http://viaitalia.com

[the urban politician]

Little Italy's in the US basically don't exist any more beyond being a collection of Italian restaurants

[montréaliste]

Montreal's Little Italy, or "Petite Italie" is situated near Jean Talon street around St Lawrence boulevard. It is still teming with Italian businesses and some residential holdouts. St Leaonard in the east end of Montreal Island is bigger and more recent from the fifties on and is now becoming more Latin American and Arabic. But the now old money is definiteley Italian, they are the builders of condo towers and own property in the billions.

Little Italy is also becoming more Latin American, Arabic, and Vietnamese but always comprised an important Lebanese Syrian community dating back to the turn of the century.

There are many small clusters of Italian neighborhoods in Montreal, like the ones in LaSalle, and NDG with a fair amount of specialized businesses.

[Beedok]

I'm used to cities which are Italian enough that neighbourhoods get defined by having a lack of Italian presence.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Docere

AFAIK Bensonhurst and environs it really wasn't a major Italian area until the 1950s and 1960s, when it saw an influx of postwar immigration.

Correct. Bens:onhurst was mostly Jewish until the 1960's. When these Jews (mostly liberal, secular Jews) started moving to Long Island/New Jersey, they were replaced by Italian migrants from Sicily and Calabria.

Bensonhurst was probably "peak Italian" in the 1980's, once the Jews had moved out/passed on and before the Chinese and Russians had moved in.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Beedok

I'm used to cities which are Italian enough that neighbourhoods get defined by having a lack of Italian presence.

In the NYC area, any regular white middle class neighborhood within 100 miles or so of Manhattan will have an Italian presence. Of course Italians are suburbanized alongside everyone else, but there are still some old-school urban enclaves.

Putting aside the touristy Little Italies of the region, places that are both old-school Italian and where you may hear Italian spoken would be:

Dyker Heights Brooklyn (around 13th Ave.)
Morris Park, Bronx (around White Plains Road and Williamsbridge Road)
Middle Village, Queens (along Metropolitan Ave.)
Howard Beach, Queens (along Cross Bay Blvd.)

Then there's the South Shore of Staten Island, which is definitely Italian, and where you are very likely to hear Italian, but the problem is it's newer and more suburban, so you lose the feel, even if the shopping plazas are full of salumerias and Italian bakeries.

There are other Italian enclaves, but I would say less intense these days. These would be East Williamsburg around Metropolitan Ave. (yeah, hipsterville still has an Italian section, where you still see little old Italian ladies making "gravy" outside their house), Bensonhurst around 18th Ave. (though the Chinese are really taking over this section), Whitestone, Queens, Mill Basin, Brooklyn, Gravesend, Brooklyn (which has some really good Sicilian places still) and even Carroll Gardens, Brooklyn (though this area is also super yuppieville).

In the suburbs, the South Shore of Long Island tends to be very Italian, as is Eastchester (Westchester County), parts of Yonkers (which has a Little Italy), parts of SW Connecticut.

In NJ, Garfield, Lodi, Belleville, Bloomfield would probably be the most Italian towns, and are old enough that they have a bit of the urban Italian-American feel, with street-corner shopping. There are old school Little Italies in Newark, Paterson, Trenton.

[Xing]

Chicago has its original Little Italy near University of Illinois - Chicago, and an unofficial neighborhood on the Near West Side on Grand Avenue, near Grand and Noble (mostly a high concentration of ITALIAN restaurants and businesses).

St Louis has, "The Hill." It Produced some famous ITALIAN American athletes - Yogi Berra, Joe Garragiola, and the 1950's US Men's World Cup soccer league. The Hill is also known for its restaurants and Italian businesses.

[JivecitySTL]

The Hill in St. Louis is still over 80% Italian.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by JivecitySTL

The Hill in St. Louis is still over 80% Italian.

If that's true, it's probably the most urban Italian neighborhood in North America. That's an incredibly high %.

[Jawnadelphia]

Yo Cuz! The Italian Market area and a lot of South Philly .... YOOOO! (well historically, although - today, the Italian Market is a mix of - Italian, Vietnamese, and Mexican). Attaboy Bo!

[dc_denizen]

South philly is the most authentic urban Italian neighborhood left.

[James Bond Agent 007]

Kansas City used to have a halfway decent Little Italy in an area just north of downtown, but to be honest, I find few remnants of any Italian-ness around here at all, even in the suburbs. They seem to have been almost completely absorbed into all the other ethnicities.

[Docere]

In the US, South Philly is probably the largest contiguous "Little Italy" - though they've moved further away from the Italian Market itself. There are still several Italian-majority census tracts. It may be the Italian American neighborhood par excellence - I don't think Philadelphia received much postwar immigration.

Largest "Italian Italian" (i.e. where Italian is still commonly spoken) is certainly southwestern Brooklyn. Though I'm pretty sure the remaining Italian enclaves in the Bronx, Queens and Staten Island today is heavily made up of postwar immigrants and their descendants as well (i.e. Howard Beach, the South Shore of Staten Island, Morris Park).

[fflint]

There is a residual 'little Italy' in San Francisco's North Beach. Lots of Italian restaurants and bakeries among the more general fare, and because of rent control, there are probably still more Italian-Americans living there, pound for pound, than in any other specific part of the city. But it is, like so many other US Italian urban enclaves, a shadow of its former self as first-generation immigrants die out and their descendants move to other places. Its attrition has allowed Chinatown to take over a good chunk of the old 'little Italy' .

[Docere]

It's interesting that San Francisco really doesn't have any Italian or "white ethnic" neighborhoods to speak of, even though it was (I believe) over 10% Italian at one time. Certainly when they suburbanized, they did not form new concentrations in the suburbs, they just melted in with other whites.

I believe the majority of SF Italians came from northern rather than southern Italy.

ETA: I don't know if North Beach is any more "authentic" than Manhattan's Little Italy, but it probably has more symbolic importance in some ways, since NYC has plenty of other, more authentic Italian areas.

[fflint]

San Francisco does have a 'white ethnic' neighborhood: the Russian neighborhood between maybe 20th and 27th Avenues in the Richmond District. It's mostly residential, but there are restaurants and shops, and the landmark Holy Virgin Cathedral on Geary Boulevard, which Wikipedia states is the "largest of the six cathedrals of the Russian Orthodox Church outside Russia."

Most people from outside the region probably don't realize Russians have been living in what is now the Bay Area since 1812. They set up a nearby military fort, Fort Ross, and their trappers completely wiped out the beaver population in the aptly-named Russian River. They traded those pelts for food and supplies with the Spanish, who first settled in San Francisco proper in 1776.

Holy Virgin Cathedral (Russian Orthodox), San Francisco:


Source: Wikipedia

[dc_denizen]

north beach and Manhattan's little Italy are just restaurants...not the real thing.

I need to check out Arthur Ave in the Bronx. Still Italian?

In NJ there is enormous Italian influence everywhere, but it's not always so concentrated.

In south Philly you have an Italian population that never left, the descendants of immigrants from 100 years ago. Whereas the Italians (and Irish) left NYC for the suburbs 50 years ago.

[dc_denizen]

to my point:

In the 60’s the safest place in the Bronx was on the corner of Arthur Avenue and 187th street. That was ground zero. All the wise guys hung out there: The Arthur Avenue Boys, The Fordham Daggers, and The Boys from Napoli. They kept their sections of the Italian ghetto safe.

Regardless of the physical prowess of the Bronx Boys, Frankie Falani was the caporegime, the captain. He answered to Mr. Davia, the boss. If you had a problem, you went to Frankie.

In Italy there was man called a codega. At night, he would walk in front of you carrying a lantern, and show you the way. He would scare off the bad guys and protect you from anyone who would harm you. Frankie was a codega. You’d often see him escorting women home at night. He also hi-jacked trucks loaded with valuables crossing into the Bronx over the Macombs Dam Bridge. I am intrigued by the duality of the soul.

In the Italian Ghetto, families were safe; you could walk the streets with impunity.

It’s different today. Have you read the crime blotters in the local newspaper? The neighborhoods of La Canada are being pilfered by roving thieves preying on unsuspecting residents. Thousands of dollars in cash and valuables have been stolen. We have a prowler sneaking in the night bringing terror to our neighborhoods.

Communities have rights just like individuals,

the right to live in peace, and feel safe and free from criminal intrusion. However, in the village of La Canada, there is a “Clear and Present Danger.”

We have drugs in our schools, alcohol at children’s parties, businesses under siege, homes being violated, and a prowler. Robert Kennedy said, “Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves.”

I have a different philosophy of what it takes to protect a community. I’ll never defer to the police to guard my well-being. Where I’m from it wasn’t done that way. We have to arm ourselves, but we do that in different ways. Some of us with real guns, some of us with more passive weapons: like vigilance and a resolve to end this malaise or a plan that will protect us and keep us safe. But a weapon nonetheless!

Please forgive me! I’m not trying to tell law enforcement how to do their job, but guys! You have to leave Foothill Boulevard! Go beyond the wire! Stop writing tickets, and do some aggressive patrolling into the heart of La Canada. You gotta’ get the bad guys! And when you get them, show no quarter and prosecute them to the full extent of the law. Aggressive patrolling has saved me more than once. Sometimes we capitulate too easy deferring to others to do our bidding for us.

I became a Bronx Boy and did a few tours as a capo, a soldier under the guise of Frankie. I learned that security is something that we individually build; it comes from our own initiative and is rooted in commitment. It’s making an affirmation that the demise of our security will not happen under our watch. Maybe we need our civic leaders to mimic the words of Lenny Kravitz from the movie, Apollo 13. “Failure is not an option.”

I outgrew Frankie; I no longer saw life as he did. I became a street gang counselor and brought tough love too the punks on the street. However, I vividly remember Frankie’s message. Although he didn’t express it, as I will, I think this is what he meant. We have a moral stature because we have a free will. The will of man is often used for evil purposes, but in the world, there is more good than evil. Evil cannot always be persuaded to the path of righteousness, so good men with commitment must correct them. That’s exactly what we did!