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  #61  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2008, 4:04 PM
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We turn on TVs for entertainment, but 1/3 of the time they are on, we are being instructed on what products to buy, how to look, where to shop, what behaviours are acceptable. If that wasn't crazy enough, we are paying a premium for it. Cable/satellite bills...

The internet is fundamentally different as its an interactive experience and allows independant thought. I would consider this message board an important part of Hamilton's media.
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  #62  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2008, 1:01 AM
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Originally Posted by adam View Post
We turn on TVs for entertainment, but 1/3 of the time they are on, we are being instructed on what products to buy, how to look, where to shop, what behaviours are acceptable. If that wasn't crazy enough, we are paying a premium for it. Cable/satellite bills...

The internet is fundamentally different as its an interactive experience and allows independant thought. I would consider this message board an important part of Hamilton's media.
The advertising to programming ratio on TV is more like 25%, or 1/4 the air time. I find that advertising on television pales in comparison to advertising on the internet. As I post here, there is an ad banner flashing at me 100% of the time. There is a direct correlation between the popularity of the internet and its advertising potential. At least you can PVR a television program and fast-forward through those ads. On the internet, there is no escape from the ad banner.
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  #63  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2008, 2:08 AM
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Originally Posted by markbarbera View Post
The advertising to programming ratio on TV is more like 25%, or 1/4 the air time.
Nope. I have a few 1 hour long shows on my computer minus commercials and they are 42 minutes long. That's 30% commercials.

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Originally Posted by markbarbera View Post
I find that advertising on television pales in comparison to advertising on the internet. As I post here, there is an ad banner flashing at me 100% of the time. There is a direct correlation between the popularity of the internet and its advertising potential. At least you can PVR a television program and fast-forward through those ads. On the internet, there is no escape from the ad banner.
I don't know what you mean about the banner ad - you aren't forced to stare at the banner ad for 30% of the time, are you?

Also you can download firefox and get a variety of ad blocking software. Then you don't see the ads unless you want to.
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  #64  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2008, 3:51 AM
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Those ads that you are blocking are less revenue to support SSP's server.
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  #65  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2008, 2:30 PM
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Originally Posted by adam View Post
Nope. I have a few 1 hour long shows on my computer minus commercials and they are 42 minutes long. That's 30% commercials.
Check your times. According to the Canadian Broadcasting Act:

Quote:
ADVERTISING MATERIAL


11. (1) Except as otherwise provided by a condition of its licence and subject to subsections (2) to (4), the maximum number of minutes of advertising material that may be broadcast by a licensee is


(a) 12 minutes in any clock hour in a broadcast day before September 1, 2008; and



(b) 15 minutes in any clock hour in a broadcast day on or after September 1, 2008 and before September 1, 2009.



(2) If a program occupies time in two or more consecutive clock hours, a licensee may broadcast more than the maximum number of minutes of advertising material during any of those clock hours if the average number of minutes of advertising material broadcast during the clock hours occupied by the program does not exceed the maximum.


(3) In addition to the maximum number of minutes of advertising material, a licensee may broadcast


(a) during each clock hour, a maximum of 30 seconds of advertising material that consists of unpaid public service announcements; and



(b) partisan political advertising during an election period.



(4) A licensee may broadcast 14 minutes of advertising material in a clock hour between 7:00 p.m. and 11:00 p.m. in a broadcast day on or after September 1, 2007 and before September 1, 2008.
15 minutes is 1/4 of the broadcast hour. Either your timing is incorrect or the broadcaster is in violation of the Broadcasting Act. Or there are political announcements as part of the broadcast, which are seperate from advertising time.
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  #66  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2008, 2:56 PM
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Originally Posted by adam View Post
On a broader scale, TV is dying.. get used to it.
It's true. TV as we know it won't exist in 5-10. Especially network tv. Why? Ask anyone under 25 if they watch network TV. Do they sit around and wait for Thurs night to watch one ep of Enterage. Or do they watch the entire season on a burned DVD, on YouTube, or Torent etc. The only reason why network tv is still on the air is because advertisers are still buying spots. Someday soon advertisers will realize they aren't getting the value for the dollar advertising on tv because of TIVO and DVD recorders that skip the ads. Even with older generations whom still watch TV in the traditional sense the 'mute' button works just fine on the ads.

The other point is that the CRTC recently made a ruling that will allow for commercial spots longer then 90 seconds. Which could pave the way for a Euro style format of mini branded content movies that are 5 minutes long and worth watching because they are entertaining. But to make them entertaining more restrictions will have to be lifted regarding nudity, swearing and actually allowing beer commercials to show people drinking etc. But if it ever happens, it will be likely too late, and too little to save network/commercial TV as we know it.
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  #67  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2008, 3:42 PM
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Originally Posted by realcity View Post
It's true. TV as we know it won't exist in 5-10. Especially network tv. Why? Ask anyone under 25 if they watch network TV. Do they sit around and wait for Thurs night to watch one ep of Enterage. Or do they watch the entire season on a burned DVD, on YouTube, or Torent etc. The only reason why network tv is still on the air is because advertisers are still buying spots. Someday soon advertisers will realize they aren't getting the value for the dollar advertising on tv because of TIVO and DVD recorders that skip the ads. Even with older generations whom still watch TV in the traditional sense the 'mute' button works just fine on the ads.

The other point is that the CRTC recently made a ruling that will allow for commercial spots longer then 90 seconds. Which could pave the way for a Euro style format of mini branded content movies that are 5 minutes long and worth watching because they are entertaining. But to make them entertaining more restrictions will have to be lifted regarding nudity, swearing and actually allowing beer commercials to show people drinking etc. But if it ever happens, it will be likely too late, and too little to save network/commercial TV as we know it.
So true and look how many other things one can watch on the net now. "Even with older generations whom still watch TV in the traditional sense the 'mute' button works just fine on the ads."

Too bad we couldn't do that with people in real eh.
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  #68  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2008, 5:42 PM
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The ads on the internet don't go as far as telling us how to live our lives, what clothes to wear, what we need to get, etc. At least not yet. The ads on this forum are not intrusive and I do not block them at all.
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  #69  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2008, 6:20 PM
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Originally Posted by adam View Post
The ads on the internet don't go as far as telling us how to live our lives, what clothes to wear, what we need to get, etc. At least not yet. The ads on this forum are not intrusive and I do not block them at all.
This forum has ads?

/Firefox + Adblock Plus
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  #70  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2008, 6:28 PM
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Originally Posted by BCTed View Post
I don't really know if we can objectively measure what makes one "smarter" versus making one "dumber"
Several researchers have tried to do just that.

The Program on International Policy Attitutes (PIPA) found that people who get most of their news from TV were more likely to believe empirically false statements about Iraq, including false claims that the US found WMD and false claims that Saddam Hussein was somehow connected with al-Qaeda.

The Pew Research Centre found that people who got most of their news from newspapers (and, incidentally, watch The Daily Show) were the most knowledgeable about political affairs while people who got most of their news from TV (particularly FOX News) were the least knowledgeable.

A study from Leeds University on the first Gulf War found that "the correlation between TV watching and knowledge was actually quite often a negative one. ... [O]verall, the more TV people watched, the less they knew."

A study by the American Journal of Managed Care found that people who learn about health from TV news were more likely to hear false and dangerous advice. Another study, by the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, found that children and adolescents who watch more TV are more confused about what foods are healthy to eat.

It might be a stretch to state that TV makes you dumber as such, but it is clearly correlated with higher levels of confusion and misinformation.
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  #71  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2008, 6:47 PM
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Sorry for the triple-post, but you may be interested in this column by former Mayor Larry Di Ianni on Hamilton's media, posted on Chris Ecklund's website.

Note: Di Ianni suggests that a member of the Mayor's staff was recently a "constant contributor" to RTH. I contacted him about this, and he told me he heard that someone from the Mayor's office was commenting on RTH, though he has no evidence for this and RTH does not collect personal information about anonymous commenters.

http://www.chrisecklund.com/diianni_...008_11_10.html

The Role of Media in the City of Hamilton

By Larry Di Ianni
(posted November 10, 2008)

Contrary to one of Hamilton’s urban myths that this city is a ‘one-horse’ town when it comes to the media, the Hammer is actually replete with media sources, albeit many of them would fall into the ‘alternative media’ category. Consider this list: The Hamilton Spectator, Hamilton Weekly News (formerly the Brabant papers), ChCh T.V., Hamilton Cable 14, 900Chml, Talk820Cham, K-Lite FM, CKOC, CMFU (McMaster), Mohawk College Radio, The Bay Observer (a new weekly), Raise The Hammer (an on-line interactive magazine), and even CATCH which is more of a political party than a news magazine but it does publish on-line articles regularly. And these are the ‘news’ media. There are others, of course, that are purely culture and entertainment media.

In spite of this plethora of media in our town, if I heard any repeated complaint during my tenure as Mayor and Councillor in Hamilton is that there is media concentration and media ‘group-think’ in our city. Perhaps that is true as far as the mainstream media is concerned, but less so with the alternative media. Even at that, the ‘concentration’ is more the result of poor budgets for news gathering than institutional group-think by the reporters. For example, because the radio and television stations are not given enough staff to research their own stories, the media takes its cue from each other. So, if the Spec covers a story, the others follow-up, making it seem as if there is only one source in the city.

Another complaint I often heard is that the media is too negative on the city. The Hamilton Spectator has often come under particular attack from Hamiltonians who see the paper as too negative, too parochial, filled with left-wing bias, or favouring the status quo and old-boys’ network, depending on which side of the political spectrum you happen favour. There is certainly bias within the paper. I can certainly recount personal stories; however, the paper tries the best it can. The new Editor-in-Chief is attempting to stake out an identity for the paper’s struggling viewpoints, and I can see subtle differences. The paper also tries to broaden its editorials with regular contributions by ordinary citizens and that is always fascinating to read what is on the minds of these fellow travelers.

The various community weekly papers (Stoney Creek News, Mountain News, Dundas Star etc.) formerly owned by the Brabant group, now Hamilton Community News, owned by the same company that publishes The Spectator try to cover their communities in an independent way that occasionally comes into conflict with some Spectator personalities and hierarchy. Recall the furore when the Hamilton Weekly broke the story on Mayor Fred leaking confidential information to a Spectator columnist. The mother paper was apoplectic, I understand. However, the Managing Editor of the Weekly stood by his criticism of the role of the Spectator columnist. The mother paper, however, did manage to kill the ‘scoop’ by the weekly’s reporter and the hub-hub also cost this reporter his regular column as well as a guest-column on this very website. This reporter was often critical of City Hall happenings and what he perceived as a lackluster performance by the Mayor. The Mayor’s office had a hand in exorcising what they felt to be a thorn on their side, I understand. It is interesting that this story of potential political meddling in the media has never been told.

The Hamilton Weekly paper also seemed to give better coverage to the Hamilton Waterfall story than the mother paper has so far done. That is too bad. This is a good news story that deserves major attention.

But other media have also come in for criticism. CH CH T.V., although it does have a lot of local programming and great local personalities, is controlled by Toronto and its reportage often reflects that accusation. CHML does a valiant job of covering the news and offering opinions especially with the intelligent, topical, and avuncular, Bill Kelly having taken over from the hard-edged Roy Green. Hamilton has just added a new all-talk radio station with Talk-820 and that augurs well for those who love opinions. Under my tenure as Mayor, we even began lobbying the CBC to open a Hamilton studio to give us more breadth of reporting for the city. I know that the Mayor’s office was still working on this endeavour until recently, but to what end remains a mystery.

Recently, a new ‘mainstream’ weekly paper has been published called “The Bay Observer” which writes on happenings in Hamilton and Burlington. The paper has a circulation of 30,000 readers I understand and its content seems to be blunt but fair. They have already had one scoop in apparently exposing the lack of transparency related to Hamilton’s Waterfront Trust when it comes to financial matters. Hamilton Council, I understand, will now receive audited financial statements from this group. Just for the record, the Hamilton Trust has been responsible for all the good things that are happening at the waterfront and I have always been a big fan of their work, even though, I agree that transparency is good. This paper has also raised the lack of leadership in Hamilton’s Mayor’s office as an early theme and one has to wonder if their position isn’t filling the void of scrutiny vacated by The Spectator? It will be interesting to see how this paper develops.

It is always entertaining to read Raise the Hammer with its interactive content. This paper covers the news from a ‘progressive’ perspective and then invites readers to offer opinions. The paper’s left-of-center approach is clearly obvious; and their habit of vilifying any opposing views is readily ascertainable. They would strengthen their defence, which is that anyone can post a response to their thoughts, if they forced people to identify themselves. Anonymous opinions aren’t worth as much as transparent ones in my estimation. It is also my understanding that the Mayor’s office used to be, until some recent staff changes, a constant contributor to the opinions in these pages, but I haven’t had any independent corroboration of this.

And of course there is CATCH, a political party masquerading as a ‘media’ outlet. This group lines itself up alongside the media at city hall, records events and then writes articles slanted to their particular perspective, which is usually anti-business, and pro-unfettered taxation of Hamilton’s ratepayers. This group wants to kill the airport land development, eschews user fees on transit preferring that taxes be raised on the general levy to name just a couple of positions. What makes them an odd ‘media’ group is that at one moment they are behaving as reporters, albeit biased ones, and in the next minute some of them line up as ‘citizen’ reps making presentations to Council espousing a particular solution to a pressing problem. They are at the same time monitors and presenters, observers of the game and players in the game. It is this confused identity that some of their readers find perplexing. I find it amusing! They have one adherent on Council who usually mouths their words; and the Mayor fears them, but their influence has waned as people around the table have come to know what they are up to. The group does serve a purpose however. They offer up a different view of the world and they faithfully record verbatim conversations around the table. No one else does that!

The media, mainstream and unconventional, in its totality offer up diverse philosophies and viewpoints for readers to enjoy and be informed or entertained by. All of this is good. The media players, those who are paid and those who are dilettantes also deserve some attention, but that would be food for another column. In the meantime, let us all relish the democracy we have, especially as we approach November 11 and its historic importance, a date that allows us to say thank you to the brave Hamiltonians who fought and sometimes died to preserve the freedom of speech we often take for granted.
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  #72  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2008, 8:07 PM
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Advertising keeps the lights on--doesn't matter if it's radio, print, television or internet. End of story. If there continues to be a shift toward "new media"--the advertising (and volume of advertising) will simply continute to shift.
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  #73  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2008, 8:15 PM
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Advertising keeps the lights on--doesn't matter if it's radio, print, television or internet. End of story. If there continues to be a shift toward "new media"--the advertising (and volume of advertising) will simply continute to shift.
And if the advertising is blocked en masse, then delivery will shift from free to a user pay format.
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  #74  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2008, 10:42 PM
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Just curious.. when you say ads, do you mean the tiny little banner at the top of each page?
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  #75  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2008, 10:51 PM
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Advertising keeps the lights on--doesn't matter if it's radio, print, television or internet. End of story. If there continues to be a shift toward "new media"--the advertising (and volume of advertising) will simply continute to shift.
exactly.... the lights will go out on radio, tv and print.

There is very little tolerance for advertising in these media formats.

Radio: the station is tuned out with another push of the button (since it is basically listened to in vehicles

tv: commercials are skipped/muted/erased. plus the audiences are not going to be there for network programming in another generation.

print: advertising has some hope but only if the content keeps it's end of the bargain by delivering eyeballs. that is people who want to read current news (*emphasis on current, not yesterday's news today) and interesting and varied commentary on issues.
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  #76  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2008, 11:21 PM
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Several researchers have tried to do just that.

The Program on International Policy Attitutes (PIPA) found that people who get most of their news from TV were more likely to believe empirically false statements about Iraq, including false claims that the US found WMD and false claims that Saddam Hussein was somehow connected with al-Qaeda.

The Pew Research Centre found that people who got most of their news from newspapers (and, incidentally, watch The Daily Show) were the most knowledgeable about political affairs while people who got most of their news from TV (particularly FOX News) were the least knowledgeable.

A study from Leeds University on the first Gulf War found that "the correlation between TV watching and knowledge was actually quite often a negative one. ... [O]verall, the more TV people watched, the less they knew."

A study by the American Journal of Managed Care found that people who learn about health from TV news were more likely to hear false and dangerous advice. Another study, by the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, found that children and adolescents who watch more TV are more confused about what foods are healthy to eat.

It might be a stretch to state that TV makes you dumber as such, but it is clearly correlated with higher levels of confusion and misinformation.
Ryan i enjoyed that article when you first wrote it and enjoyed again as much.

However I have a problem with those one-off, snap-shot stats. They are like that stats that claim 'babies that are breastfed grow to be smarter adults'. This may be true, but not from the breast feeding alone. The number crunchers fail to see other environment factors. Such as, perhaps the mother that choose to breast feed is more likely to be a more nuturing, caring, selfless mother, that devotes time and sacrifices... result.... a better mother? Whom likely has an equally present father, provider, and stable family life. I can also assume the baby formula user is a low-income, young single mother that puts their baby on formula so she can get back to her desired lifestyle, or the super-successful lawyer mom that takes 6 weeks off for her baby then it's daycare and formula. Is it the actual breast milk making babies smarter? I think not.

This is what actuaries and marketers do, it's less politically correct but more accurate then a one-off scientific study (which for the most part are done to benefit the author's career). Actuaries and marketers take a big picture stat to draw conclusions. Similarly to how two people applying for life insurance may score identically on tests, except for one thing.... occupation.... 1. is a truck driver.... 2. is a teacher. The teacher will pay a lower premium based on this one factor. There are several assumptions one can draw from occupation alone.

Similarly, I can assume that people whom largely get their news from TV are less educated and less motivated then people that read. People that choose a newspaper for their primary source of news are more likely to be better educated, more likely to read more then one newspaper, are more likely to get a larger variety of opinions.

While I believe PIPA results. This study, like many, fail to account for the big picture.

Is it the actual viewing of TV that makes one dumb? I think not.
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  #77  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2008, 11:37 PM
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However I have a problem with those one-off, snap-shot stats. They are like that stats that claim 'babies that are breastfed grow to be smarter adults'. This may be true, but not from the breast feeding alone. The number crunchers fail to see other environment factors. Such as, perhaps the mother that choose to breast feed is more likely to be a more nuturing, caring, selfless mother, that devotes time and sacrifices... result.... a better mother? Whom likely has an equally present father, provider, and stable family life. I can also assume the baby formula user is a low-income, young single mother that puts their baby on formula so she can get back to her desired lifestyle, or the super-successful lawyer mom that takes 6 weeks off for her baby then it's daycare and formula. Is it the actual breast milk making babies smarter? I think not.
Waaay off topic, but the study you you're citing took those factors into consideration. There is a chemical in breastmilk that can't be duplicated in formula that helps all those little neural pathways form. The physical closeness helps with brain development as well.
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  #78  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2008, 1:29 AM
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i believe i pointed that out. the other point i was attempting to make was that there are other factors that make babies 'smarter'.

Likewise other factors must be considered whether or not TV (media... what this thread is about) makes people dumb. the point is... they were dumber in the first place.
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  #79  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2008, 2:35 AM
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Similarly, I can assume that people whom largely get their news from TV are less educated and less motivated then people that read. People that choose a newspaper for their primary source of news are more likely to be better educated, more likely to read more then one newspaper, are more likely to get a larger variety of opinions.

While I believe PIPA results. This study, like many, fail to account for the big picture.

Is it the actual viewing of TV that makes one dumb? I think not.
For once, I agree with you. There may well be a selection bias at play in that people who have a predilection for TV may be less intelligent to begin with. Beyond that, intelligence is extremely difficult to define and measure ----
ryan_mcgreal's study seems to measure level of adopted misinformation rather than "smartness" or "dumbness". Even further beyond that, for every study of this type that comes to this conclusion, there is probably another one that comes to the opposite conclusion.
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  #80  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2008, 2:43 AM
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Please, feel free to show us one that comes to the opposite conclusion.
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