2019 CFL Season

[craner]

^Ahh - so that's it.
Guess I was mislead by Stampeders radio who were speculating that Leblanc & Ambrosie would make an announcement about the Schooners starting play in Moncton in 2020.

[EpicPonyTime]

I do wonder if the group behind the Schooners believe Halifax is the be-all-end-all, or if they consider Moncton to be a potential fallback in case their Halifax plans do not pan out. It definitely seems like they have a sweetspot for the city.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by craner

^Ahh - so that's it.
Guess I was mislead by Stampeders radio who were speculating that Leblanc & Ambrosie would make an announcement about the Schooners starting play in Moncton in 2020.

This is starting to feel like the emperor with no clothes. The league keeps talking about it, but nothing is actually happening beyond endless amounts of claptrap.

The CFL website even has a section for the Schooners despite there being no actual team, no stadium and no realistic prospects for one that I'm aware of. This pretend Halifax football team is becoming an embarrassment to the CFL. Put the damn thing in Moncton where there is a stadium and be done with it.

[MonctonRad]

In the article about the announcement for Touchdown Atlantic IV in the Moncton Times & Transcript, Anthony LeBlanc seemed more adamant than ever that the first 1-2 seasons for the Atlantic Schooners will be played out of Moncton, while a stadium is built in Halifax.

Anthony LeBlanc BTW is a New Brunswick native.

[25grapes]

I don't think this will cause the masses to fall in love with a Halifax stadium. When I first saw the picture I thought it was perfect but then the article says it will possibly only have 12,000 permanent seats and will be expandable to accommodate CFL games. Surprised if the CFL gives a deign like that their blessing.

https://3downnation.com/2019/03/30/a...tadium-design/

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

In the article about the announcement for Touchdown Atlantic IV in the Moncton Times & Transcript, Anthony LeBlanc seemed more adamant than ever that the first 1-2 seasons for the Atlantic Schooners will be played out of Moncton, while a stadium is built in Halifax.

Anthony LeBlanc BTW is a New Brunswick native.

I think that’s a bad idea. Unless the team is a huge on-field success right off the bat, this approach could negate the novelty and curiosity factors that would otherwise help to get people to come to the games for the first year or two, in the city whose fan response is ultimately the one that really matters.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Andy6

I think that’s a bad idea. Unless the team is a huge on-field success right off the bat, this approach could negate the novelty and curiosity factors that would otherwise help to get people to come to the games for the first year or two, in the city whose fan response is ultimately the one that really matters.

I don't think it is a good idea. Take those two years to get out and sell the team that isn't a dream, like right now, but when it becomes reality.

[q12]

Updated render of the Atlantic Schooner's future home in Halifax:

[EpicPonyTime]

Looks to be a permanent grandstand on one side and temporary bleachers for the rest. Definitely a concern in terms of comfort and amenities.

[esquire]

^ Doesn't look like temporary seating so much as it looks like a fairly basic grandstand. Which makes sense on some level if you're trying to keep costs at an absolute minimum... concentrate everything on one side, and literally just use the other side for seating, washrooms and concession stands.

Was there an actual capacity announced? My estimate is that as shown, it appears to have about 20,000 seats.

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Doesn't look like temporary seating so much as it looks like a fairly basic grandstand. Which makes sense on some level if you're trying to keep costs at an absolute minimum... concentrate everything on one side, and literally just use the other side for seating, washrooms and concession stands.

Was there an actual capacity announced? My estimate is that as shown, it appears to have about 20,000 seats.

The proposal calls for 12K in permanent seats (paid for by the government), and 14K temporary seats (paid for by the Schooners) which will be used for football games.

The actual proposal is pretty iffy on whether or not the temporary seats are bleachers similar to what you'd see at the Grey Cup, or something with a bit more permanency.

[esquire]

^ I suspect it would have to be something more permanent than the meccano-set stuff you see for one-time use. Those 'temporary' stands could be in place for years, even decades.

Anyway, those numbers don't really mesh with the drawings. It doesn't look like the left-side and end zone stands have 14,000 seats... at least to my eyes.

[EpicPonyTime]

From the article 25grapes shared:

“We’re finally getting to the point to getting a building that makes sense but it ties into the vision that we’re talking about. The first thing they’ll say is that a community stadium doesn’t have to have the amount of seats that a CFL team may need and we agree,” LeBlanc said Saturday at an event in Halifax hosted by the CFL. “From a community perspective, what is needed is a fixed facility that will house roughly 12,000 permanent seats so this structure is what we’re talking to our friends and partners at the municipal, provincial and federal level.”

LeBlanc says his group at SSE would then be responsible for paying for the construction of an additional 10,000 seats, along with 4,000 temporary seats, for a total of 26,000.

While promising, it is still a rather vague plan. LeBlanc's comments do make it sound like the seats will be permanent, but in other parts of the article it suggests they will be temporary. I think they might go for something similar to the old endzone seating at Taylor Field.

[25grapes]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I suspect it would have to be something more permanent than the meccano-set stuff you see for one-time use. Those 'temporary' stands could be in place for years, even decades.

Anyway, those numbers don't really mesh with the drawings. It doesn't look like the left-side and end zone stands have 14,000 seats... at least to my eyes.

Ya I agree. When I first saw the photo I thought it looked like the original BMO Field design which is what was said they would be using as a template about 2 months ago. But then then you read 14K permanent seats and the drawing becomes a bit of a marketing decoy. The temporary seating could easily be similar to a Grey Cup style or what they had in place at McMaster for the Ticats but they just clean up all of the under belly scaffold for the picture to make it look nice. I hope it's something where they put a plan in place where after 5 years they add permanent seating to the other side. The permanent structure looks nice, very THF-esque.

[esquire]

^ It's not bad, but to my mind they've downgraded the proposal to something that really covers the bare essentials... I'm not sure that there is any fat left to trim. Cut it back from the rendering and you end up with something that is not any better than the stadium in Moncton, and at that point you wonder if it's just setting the team up for failure.

[q12]

Some higher resolution stadium renders:

https://www.facebook.com/schoonersat...4992051890451/


https://www.facebook.com/schoonersat...4992051890451/


https://www.facebook.com/schoonersat...4992051890451/

[elly63]

After seeing this latest plan, I think I am convinced that this is realistic enough to come to fruition. Worst case scenario for me is that this will be Renegades 2.0, I would rather the stadium not be built than for that to happen.

[craner]

I don't like the idea of 12,000 temporary stands for CFL games.
Here is a TSN article.

http://https://www.tsn.ca/schooners-partner-with-sport-nova-scotia-on-proposed-stadium-1.1282277

[elly63]

Originally Posted by craner

I don't like the idea of 12,000 temporary stands for CFL games. Here is a TSN article.

We still don't really know much yet, that drawing doesn't look like 130 million to me, if it is, it might be somewhat luxurious. I wouldn't be too disheartened about temporary stands, if you recall what the Riders did at Taylor Field and "Tempire" Stadium in BC.

Here are some numbers for comparison purposes:

June 2010
The $14 million, 27,500-seat temporary stadium contract with Nussli Special Events (Canada) was completed on time and on budget. The temporary stadium has 20,500 covered seats, 7,000 additional end zone bench seats and 12 hospitality suites.

[blueandgoldguy]

Having a team play its first 2 seasons in Moncton assuming a stadium will be built in Halifax is a terrible mistake and will put the team in a huge deficit. First of all, the stadium will not have the capacity (16,000 - 20,000) nor the amenities to provide them with the adequate game day revenue to cover their expenses. Second, the team will not even sell out the stadium on a consistent basis since everyone in Moncton will know the team will be moving a few hundred kms away - this will exascerbate the first point.

It does not matter how they sell it - this will be your team too Moncton! It's an Atlantic team! It will be just as much your's as it is Halifax. The team will be gone in two years and the people of Moncton will be fully aware of this going into this hypothetical agreement. No sense getting invested emotionally and financially when your team will be leaving in short order.

Recent history has proven this. When the Hartford Whalers moved to Greensboro for 2 seasons while they waited for an arena to be built in Raleigh for the "Carolina" Hurricanes, the team averaged around 8,000 per game in a 20,000 seat arena. It didn't matter that the team was marketed as a state team and thus, a pro hockey team for all of North and South Carolina to cheer for. People in Greensboro saw little reason to invest time and money in a pro sports entity that would be leaving town in short order.

The same thing happened when the Houston Oilers moved to Memphis for two seasons while they waited for a new stadium to be built in Nashville. Memphis had been repeatedly denied an NFL expansion franchise in the past, and the league and the owners were actually hopeful fans would show up for 2 years only to have the team move to Nashville in 1998/99. Of course, we know what happened. Despite being marketed as the Tennessee Titans, the team drew poorly in Memphis for its 2 seasons, frequently filling half the stadium.

Sorry Moncton, you are not that special. If this Halifax Stadium is actually approved and Leblanc somehow manages to convince the CFL board of governors to approve an expansion team to commence play in Moncton for 2 seasons prior to the move to Halifax, it will be a financial disaster. The team will not come close to selling out 18 regular season games unless they are massive giveaways akin to the 2018-19 Ottawa Senators. There is no special camaraderie or culture that only exists in Atlantic Canada that will overcome this. The people from Moncton know they are a placeholder and nothing more. No amount of convincing them that this will an Atlantic team will result in positive long term attendance.

Hopefully Randy and BOG nip this in the bud.