NEW YORK | 175 Park Avenue (Grand Hyatt) | 1,575 FT | 86 FLOORS

[Zapatan]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

I wouldn't underestimate the long-term deference to the WTC1 thing. Remember this is still the city that puts a big American flag sticker on buses and trains just in case you forget what country you are in while you are riding the subway. It was a patriotic, righteous and appropriate gesture at the time but it's seemingly become permanent probably because, inertia, and nobody wants to be the first guy that suggests they no longer do it out of fear of being labelled unpatriotic.

Then they could build a 2001 foot tower, with special FAA permission for that extra foot

That would symbolize rebirth even more tbh, and NY is probably the only place on earth where a tower like that would even come close to making economic sense.

[DCReid]

My gut feeling is that it will be driven by perceived office demand and competition, and we won't know until the existing hotel on the site is demolished. But there has been a tendency to downsize office buildings in the city lately - such as 1 Vanderbilt and Manhattan West.

[Zapatan]

Originally Posted by DCReid

My gut feeling is that it will be driven by perceived office demand and competition, and we won't know until the existing hotel on the site is demolished. But there has been a tendency to downsize office buildings in the city lately - such as 1 Vanderbilt and Manhattan West.

If 1,486 is the last of the "downsizing" I'm fine with that. Much lower and it would be really disappointing.

I think once things rebound from Covid at the end of this year the world (including office/hotel markets) will be a much more optimistic place.

[pianowizard]

Originally Posted by DCReid

My gut feeling is that it will be driven by perceived office demand and competition, and we won't know until the existing hotel on the site is demolished. But there has been a tendency to downsize office buildings in the city lately - such as 1 Vanderbilt and Manhattan West.

As NYguy reminded us, the 1,486' version has the same number of floors as the earlier 1,646' version, so they satisfy the demand for square footage equally well. If there is no demand for high ceilings, then the developer will probably opt for the shorter version to save money.

[JMKeynes]

NY has way more Fortune 500 HQs than any other city, including huge financial institutions which have very deep pockets. It also has a legal market that has no parallel in the world in terms of wealth and size. The amount of enormous wealth in NY also is unparalleled.

Like 1 Vandy, this will fill up ASAP.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by jbermingham123

What worries me most is that "Dont Surpass 1WTC's Spantenna" may become an unofficial (or even worse, official) rule for the city

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

I wouldn't underestimate the long-term deference to the WTC1 thing.

There's no such rule, and honestly, how often do proposals for towers taller than 1,776 ft get built in the US? The answer is, we're still waiting for one. Don't assume if the Freedom Tower spire wasn't built, we'd for sure be getting a proposal to top 1,776 ft. That's not how it works. Developers, at least here, don't just build for height.

Originally Posted by DCReid

My gut feeling is that it will be driven by perceived office demand and competition, and we won't know until the existing hotel on the site is demolished. But there has been a tendency to downsize office buildings in the city lately - such as 1 Vanderbilt and Manhattan West.

One Vanderbilt wasn't downsized (the space allocation is different, resulting in less floors). Manhattan West wasn't really downsized either, the tower was split into two towers to create the residential building. Office towers like 50 Hudson and the Spiral were bumped up above initial proposals.

Originally Posted by pianowizard

As NYguy reminded us, the 1,486' version has the same number of floors as the earlier 1,646' version, so they satisfy the demand for square footage equally well. If there is no demand for high ceilings, then the developer will probably opt for the shorter version to save money.

There's always a demand for higher ceilings, especially in that area of midtown, and the type of building that this is. They're coming on the heels of the success of Vanderbilt, and it's what they want to emulate. Like I said earlier, I'd be shocked if they didn't build the higher floor plates. The size of the crown also plays a role in how tall the tower ultimately ends up being, though probably to a lesser extent.

Even so, the tower could still end up being shorter, we'll just have to wait and see. But for now, its still at the 1,646 ft status as we prepare for ULURP.

[Raysiri]

Cool, let’s hope if this awesome supertall tower be able to keep the 1,646’ height. What I dislike about buildings is reduced height, simple.

[Zapatan]

Funny how the smaller version has a higher floor count, unless 83 is not including certain mech. etc.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Zapatan

Funny how the smaller version has a higher floor count, unless 83 is not including certain mech. etc.

It was always 83-89, depending on if you count those upper levels. It’s the same way with Vanderbilt, sometimes they count the levels above the observation deck, which don’t count as floor space.





Also, the exact mix of which floors account for hotel or office space changes a little.



A look again at what we would typically expect of buildings of this caliber, as far as slab heights go...


50 Hudson





350 Park





15 Penn





One Vanderbilt

[chris08876]

We'll have to wait until its 100% official. Its still early in the game.

[NYguy]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...o-reshape-city

NYC’s Developers Plow Ahead With Ambitious Plans to Reshape City


By Patrick Clark and Natalie Wong
April 19, 2021

New York City’s builders have had a curious reaction to a pandemic that emptied Manhattan’s office towers, shuttered restaurants and kept tourists home.

Over the past year, as scores of businesses closed and many residents beat it out of town, developers doubled-down on visions of steel-and-glass grandeur, hatching plans that could transform the city.

Vornado Realty Trust recently said it will demolish the Hotel Pennsylvania and add an office tower taller than 1,200 feet (366 meters) at the site by Madison Square Garden.

Near Grand Central Terminal, giant towers are sprouting, including a project to redevelop the Grand Hyatt next to the transit hub. The developers are proposing a 1,600-foot skyscraper that would be among the tallest in the Western Hemisphere.

Manhattan has been one of the hardest-hit places in the U.S. over the past year. But even as Covid-19 has crushed commercial-property values, developers are making big-money bets that it’s only a matter of time before Manhattan is Manhattan again.

“Developers are optimistic by nature,” said Jim Costello, senior vice president at Real Capital Analytics. “The market they care about isn’t the here and now. It’s about where the market will be when their project is complete.”

After office construction in New York City ground to a virtual halt in the second and third quarters of last year, developers began work on $2.7 billion worth of projects in the final three months of 2020, according to data from Real Capital Analytics.

That was down roughly one-third from the fourth quarter of 2019, but large enough to show builders and lenders haven’t lost their appetite for risk.

Still, New York City landlords are digging out of a deep hole. The city has estimated that the value of Manhattan office buildings will drop 25%, with hotels worth 31% less. Apartment rents have slid amid a flood of vacancies, while key retail corridors are plagued by empty storefronts.

Vornado Realty Trust Chief Executive Officer Steven Roth’s ambitious plans for the area around Penn Station are a bet that office workers will eventually stream back into Midtown, which is key to Manhattan’s recovery.

“The success of our business will continue to depend upon talented workers gathering together,” Roth wrote in a recent letter to shareholders. “I guess the kitchen table has a place for some, but I continue to believe the urban office is the future of work.”

Across town, the project to build a new office tower at the site of the Grand Hyatt is now nearly 30% bigger than when it was introduced two years ago. And developers RXR Realty and TF Cornerstone are moving forward with plans to put a 500-room hotel at the top of the building.

SL Green Realty Corp., the city’s largest office landlord, secured a $1.25 billion construction loan to redevelop a giant office tower in the tech-friendly Flatiron district. The firm also opened One Vanderbilt in September, a $3.3 billion skyscraper near Grand Central that is about 75% leased and features a restaurant by Daniel Boulud.

A couple blocks away, Boston Properties Inc. has proposed an office tower that may rise more 1,000 feet at a former MTA building on Madison Avenue.

[JMKeynes]

[Busy Bee]

Too bad none of us know the architects personally, we could just call and ask them was the real height is.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Too bad none of us know the architects personally, we could just call and ask them was the real height is.

You'd probably get the same answer, floor heights are being finalized.

[SkyHigher]

NYguy?

I wanna take you to a gray bar....gray bar....gray bar terrace!

[citybooster]

I'm just in love with that base, even in a diagram.

[faridnyc]

This what we should have , and give a breath for chrysler building.

[faridnyc]

Almost 1700ft and helpful to Chrysler building to have some breathing .

[SkyHigher]

Yeh I like that faridnyc. Not sure about the pink facade though. But to be honest Met Life could do with rainbow reclad at this point.

[Raysiri]

Originally Posted by faridnyc

This what we should have , and give a breath for chrysler building.

This is better I guess? Slimmer buildings like 111 W 57th and 432 Park Avenue make them look taller. I say this should be around 1,670'. Why? To beat Taipei 101 to become the 10th tallest (if built now) in the world!