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  #21  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2014, 7:40 PM
worldlyhaligonian worldlyhaligonian is offline
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Originally Posted by JET View Post
I'm guessing if you 'love Halifax', you can't also love protected woodland?
I sort of like the Discovery centre, but six million dollars, wow
who's next in line for a handout?
Well, I mean, its for kids and is a needed attraction downtown.

I have no issue with that money with all these other expenses. Now, we just need a stadium contribution of 10x that amount from the province
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  #22  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2014, 8:25 PM
Drybrain Drybrain is offline
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I've got no problem with the money either. It's not THAT much, and I know people who work there--it's a good organization, and they're not paying exorbitant salaries, so I know the funds are being well used.
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  #23  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2014, 11:15 PM
counterfactual counterfactual is offline
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The new government definitely seems keen to spend money; good to hear that there is a new source of money to be spent, it's not like it will have to be borrowed or anything.
While the Province needs to make some cuts to balance the budget, there is always money. The difference is that in Nova Scotia, the money is usually thrown all over the province, usually in money sinks or propping up dying 19th century industries, basically, anywhere but Halifax.

Other than pitching in for the library and convention centre, NDP followed that tradition. They took Halifax for granted, did really nothing for the city, and they paid for it in the election. Now the Liberals are looking to solidify those gains across HRM with some proper investment. Good for them.

And, being present and future of this province's economy, entirely makes sense to invest in Halifax, particularly downtown.

In fact, I'm tired of all the bitching and moaning whenever some public money is finally invested in a downtown Halifax project.

Both the City and the Province have seriously neglected downtown Halifax investment over the last 20 years:

http://metronews.ca/news/halifax/261...stment-report/

From 2000-2013, HRM/Provincial Governments invested a grand total of $34 million in downtown Halifax.

Canadian comparisons:
  • Fredericton, NB, invested almost TWO and a HALF TIMES more than Halifax, in a SHORTER time period: $84 million from 2006-2010.
  • Saskatoon: invested almost THREE TIMES more than Halifax in a comparable period of time: $94 million from 1998-2011.
  • London, Ontario, invested FIVE TIMES more: $174 million from 1998-2011
  • Edmonton, AB, invested FOUR TIMES more than Halifax in a SHORTER time frame: $136 million from 2002-2011
  • Vancouver invested FOUR and a HALF TIMES more than Halifax in a SHORTER time frame: $148 million from 2002-2002

Data: https://www.ida-downtown.org/eweb/do...0DT%205-15.pdf

Basically, since amalgamation, Halifax has fallen far, far, behind in terms of downtown investment.

Those numbers are beyond embarrassing. They're actually outrageous.

So, I say: bring on the Discovery Centre millions. Long overdue.
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  #24  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2014, 11:49 PM
RyeJay RyeJay is offline
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Originally Posted by counterfactual View Post
While the Province needs to make some cuts to balance the budget, there is always money. The difference is that in Nova Scotia, the money is usually thrown all over the province, usually in money sinks or propping up dying 19th century industries, basically, anywhere but Halifax.
I would say most cities in Canada would complain that other municipalities/regions throughout the province get too much, while the cities don't get enough.

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Originally Posted by counterfactual View Post
Other than pitching in for the library and convention centre, NDP followed that tradition. They took Halifax for granted, did really nothing for the city, and they paid for it in the election. Now the Liberals are looking to solidify those gains across HRM with some proper investment. Good for them.
Disagree.
The Liberals won because of Trudeaumania. The NDP didn't take Halifax for granted so much that people would have switched their vote for a party that wasn't promising change anyway.
The Liberals won because of celebrity power.

(...a celebrity power I'm relieved to see beginning to diminish on the federal stage.)


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Originally Posted by counterfactual View Post
Basically, since amalgamation, Halifax has fallen far, far, behind in terms of downtown investment.
Agreed.

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Originally Posted by counterfactual View Post
So, I say: bring on the Discovery Centre millions. Long overdue.
Certainly.
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  #25  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2014, 2:25 AM
counterfactual counterfactual is offline
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I would say most cities in Canada would complain that other municipalities/regions throughout the province get too much, while the cities don't get enough.
Maybe, but then, I have the data (above) to prove it. Halifax has been starved of investment. It's irresponsible and stupid.

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Disagree.
The Liberals won because of Trudeaumania. The NDP didn't take Halifax for granted so much that people would have switched their vote for a party that wasn't promising change anyway.
The Liberals won because of celebrity power.
I think it was too much of a complete and total landslide victory, to attribute it to Trudeau. And he only came twice.

Look, I had high hopes for the NDP, but they turned out to be a complete and total let down.

I honestly can't think of anything they did for Halifax, other than contributing to the library and Nova Centre.

In fact, I found they were pretty anti-Halifax. They shipped government jobs out of town, which made no sense because no civil servants agreed to go anyways, which meant you had to re-train new workers for jobs out of town and also find different jobs for public servants around Halifax, for which they were properly less fit for, and also having to re-train, making everything more costly and less efficient. They also dragged their feet on pretty much every change to the city charter that HRM requested; took them like 5 years to pass some simple density bonusing amendments, FFS.

And, finally, they gutted university funding more so than any other provincial government in recent memory. 4% cuts initially, then 3% year over year.

Ask anyone who works in venture capital, R&D, or innovation sector in Nova Scotia / Halifax. The only game in town (or in province) are universities. They're the only places innovating, often creating new spin off companies and jobs, thus retaining a few of the skilled young people we lose every year, and the NDP gutted universties year over year.

Meanwhile, NDP did nothing on youth hiring and just kept throwing money at healthcare, which is the real money sucker in this province; promised to keep the 42 or whatever health authorities across the province, each with their own costly CEO. Universities (who collective receive approx $310m a year) are a drop in the bucket compared to healthcare which costs $4.5 billion, over half of our budget: http://thechronicleherald.ca/novasco...ealth-spending

Not even the Tories under John Hamm cut university funding; they actually increased it. What was Dexter thinking?! I know what he was thinking; he assumed Halifax and university students were "in the bag". HRM has been an NDP stronghold for over a decade. He took it all for granted. And paid for it.

Anyways, I've hijacked this thread.

Last edited by counterfactual; Jan 22, 2014 at 6:38 AM.
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  #26  
Old Posted May 20, 2014, 7:44 PM
xanaxanax xanaxanax is offline
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I was talking to them about a new exhibit to include in the flight gallery and found out the opening date is now pushed back to 2016. I'm told they are set to break ground at the end of this summer.
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  #27  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2014, 8:47 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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  #28  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2014, 9:35 PM
hokus83 hokus83 is offline
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I was sent this in a email a while back in August "The design development phase of the project begins next week, which would see actual construction at the new site beginning in 4-6 months. Exhibit design and fabrication is underway now.

The public campaign for the project begins in October

If all goes according to plan in the next phase, opening will be in June/July of 2016."

seems like a tight deadline to meet
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  #29  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2014, 11:03 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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I am surprised that construction isn't already underway. The Board of Directors seem to be taking a very cautious approach by having most of the funding arranged before proceeding. It is hard to argue with that approach but I wonder if the owners of 1595 Barrington Street (the current Discovery Centre location) aren't getting impatient?
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  #30  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2014, 2:28 AM
counterfactual counterfactual is offline
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I am surprised that construction isn't already underway. The Board of Directors seem to be taking a very cautious approach by having most of the funding arranged before proceeding. It is hard to argue with that approach but I wonder if the owners of 1595 Barrington Street (the current Discovery Centre location) aren't getting impatient?
Why wouldn't they drag their feet? They've been doing it for years; and when their lease was up, Ghosn (landlord at current location) was working to provide the DC with temporary space elsewhere until new location built. But no, all of HRM council and staff basically pistol whipped Ghosn into allowing an extension-- and most SSPers supported this allowance too-- which is also holding up his residential development on a primary downtown location. With all the current Barrington development happening, would have been great for this one to be going too, so the congestion pain would not be spread out over more years than necessary.

I stand by my previous position: extension should not have been granted. They'll drag their feet forever. Had they been moved to a temporary location elsewhere, there would have been much stronger incentives to develop and complete the new location. Instead, here we are, months later, and nothing is happening. Who is surprised?
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  #31  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2014, 1:24 PM
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Keith P. Keith P. is offline
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I say again: I do not understand how the Discovery Center operates. Is it a charity? One would think so given all their fundraising and govt support. But they have well-paid execs and a Board full of the Halifax Elite. Now they are to build a $16M facility? People treat it like some sort of sacred institution. But I do not see it. Something doesn't seem right to me about this outfit. It just doesn't add up.
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  #32  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2014, 2:04 PM
JET JET is offline
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I say again: I do not understand how the Discovery Center operates. Is it a charity? One would think so given all their fundraising and govt support. But they have well-paid execs and a Board full of the Halifax Elite. Now they are to build a $16M facility? People treat it like some sort of sacred institution. But I do not see it. Something doesn't seem right to me about this outfit. It just doesn't add up.
I agree Keith, it is not a service available to the masses. Too many families could not afford to visit. Apparently there is a membership available, but I can't get to a membership info page. "The not-for-profit Discovery Centre is Nova Scotia’s only hands-on science centre whose mandate is to stimulate interest, enjoyment and understanding of science and technology through innovative, exciting, hands-on experiences for all Nova Scotians. "
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  #33  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2014, 2:12 PM
Drybrain Drybrain is offline
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I agree Keith, it is not a service available to the masses. Too many families could not afford to visit. Apparently there is a membership available, but I can't get to a membership info page. "The not-for-profit Discovery Centre is Nova Scotia’s only hands-on science centre whose mandate is to stimulate interest, enjoyment and understanding of science and technology through innovative, exciting, hands-on experiences for all Nova Scotians. "
What is with this grudge against the Discovery Centre? It costs 10 bucks for an adult and 7 for a kid to get in. That's less than a movie. Less than AGNS and most museums. Not sure how that's unaffordable.
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  #34  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2014, 2:30 PM
JET JET is offline
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What is with this grudge against the Discovery Centre? It costs 10 bucks for an adult and 7 for a kid to get in. That's less than a movie. Less than AGNS and most museums. Not sure how that's unaffordable.
Dry, there are lots of families that can't aford to go to movie theatres; so for a family of four, would that be $34 to go to the Discovery Centre?
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  #35  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2014, 3:03 PM
Drybrain Drybrain is offline
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Dry, there are lots of families that can't aford to go to movie theatres; so for a family of four, would that be $34 to go to the Discovery Centre?
Compared to a meal out, or a day at a a fairground, or a lot of things, that's quite affordable. I get that not all families can afford it, but you can't really get much lower with prices before it becomes unsustainable to operate. I don't think it's nearly expensive enough to be considered "not available to the masses." The masses can afford 10 bucks a head.
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  #36  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2014, 4:24 PM
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Given those prices I wonder why govt is handing them millions in freebies.
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  #37  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2014, 5:22 PM
JET JET is offline
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Compared to a meal out, or a day at a a fairground, or a lot of things, that's quite affordable. I get that not all families can afford it, but you can't really get much lower with prices before it becomes unsustainable to operate. I don't think it's nearly expensive enough to be considered "not available to the masses." The masses can afford 10 bucks a head.
Far too many families cannot afford what many of us see as affordable:
"Canadians who experience low income may not have the resources to afford food, shelter, and other necessities or to ensure their financial security."
http://www4.hrsdc.gc.ca/.3ndic.1t.4r@-eng.jsp?iid=23
yet you recommend that they should be able to go to the Discovery Centre, I suppose we should also suggest that they eat cake?
It's intersting that in London England most museums have free admission to all members of the public, now there's something to get behind.
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  #38  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2014, 5:47 PM
Drybrain Drybrain is offline
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Far too many families cannot afford what many of us see as affordable:
"Canadians who experience low income may not have the resources to afford food, shelter, and other necessities or to ensure their financial security."
http://www4.hrsdc.gc.ca/.3ndic.1t.4r@-eng.jsp?iid=23
yet you recommend that they should be able to go to the Discovery Centre, I suppose we should also suggest that they eat cake?
It's intersting that in London England most museums have free admission to all members of the public, now there's something to get behind.
I agree that it'd be ideal for cultural institutions to be free, as they are in much of Europe. However, that would require far more government financial support. It's not the Discovery Centre's fault they have to charge admission; they couldn't exist without it. Nor could the AGNS or any of our museums and cultural institutions. It's not like they're saying, "Screw you, poor families." It's the reality of operating such a facility in Canada.

And if they did receive enough government support to go without admission, we'd have to listen to Keith et. al. decrying the government handouts, etc. So I don't know what you're suggesting they do. Shut down because they may be too expensive for a small percentage of the population?
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  #39  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2014, 6:12 PM
JET JET is offline
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I agree that it'd be ideal for cultural institutions to be free, as they are in much of Europe. However, that would require far more government financial support. It's not the Discovery Centre's fault they have to charge admission; they couldn't exist without it. Nor could the AGNS or any of our museums and cultural institutions. It's not like they're saying, "Screw you, poor families." It's the reality of operating such a facility in Canada.

And if they did receive enough government support to go without admission, we'd have to listen to Keith et. al. decrying the government handouts, etc. So I don't know what you're suggesting they do. Shut down because they may be too expensive for a small percentage of the population?
What I'm suggesting is that the Discovery centre should do what they can with what they can fundraise, (shouldn't be hard with the number of high wage supporters that they have) and from what they raise on admission. I'm also suggesting that the province use that $6,000,000 to help low income families, that struggle with basic needs.
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  #40  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2014, 7:57 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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What I'm suggesting is that the Discovery centre should do what they can with what they can fundraise, (shouldn't be hard with the number of high wage supporters that they have) and from what they raise on admission. I'm also suggesting that the province use that $6,000,000 to help low income families, that struggle with basic needs.
I don't want to get caught up in the middle of this, but IMHO, perhaps it would be better to find a way to give low-income families a break on the admission - I'm not an administrator, so I'm not quite sure how they would do it at street level - but there must be a way that it could be done.

Again, IMHO, facilities like this have a valuable coexistence of education and entertainment, and I feel that it is a good place for all kids to visit and learn regardless of family income. In some cases, it might even help spark an interest in science which could eventually lead to a career for them some day.

Getting kids interested in education could be much more valuable, in the long run, than simply diverting funds from facilities such as this to needy families. Not that it can be a replacement for immediate help for the needy, but there should be a balance between the needs of the immediate and the benefits for the future.

Teach 'em to farm, feed 'em for life...
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