[Halifax] Oxford North (6395 North) | 20 m | 7 fl | U/C

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by curnhalio

The area could use a little street level retail, actually. I could overlook the downgrading of the building itself if it's accompanied by an upgrade of the street area. The intersection has some of the better transit connections in the city, but has precious little growth potential.

My sentiments exactly.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

And opposing street level retail appears to be an old page taken right out of the Anti-Urbanist Almanac.

You really should write that, by the way. I give you permission to use that catchy title: Keith's Anti-Urbanist Almanac (tm).

No thanks. Planners have all the hackneyed phrases all tied up already.

Are you at all familiar with the area? There's a great little coffee shop just up the street, which IMHO has added a lot to the local. As curnhalio says, a little more street level retail like that could be a real plus for the area and IMHO, help build a sense of local, walkable, community-- maybe another cafe, maybe a small grocer; some of small local business-- anything, really.

I lived adjacent to the convent when I was a little kid - I remember seeing the nuns come and go and wondering why they always wore what I later learned was called a habit. Later in life I lved a block away for many years. I know the area very well. And because of that I know that there is zero retail anywhere along North until you go east almost to Agricola, and damn little even after that. It is an overly narrow, heavily trafficked street with no stopping/parking along most of it, hardly ideal for retail. Maybe that's why there is none. The little cafe you mention up on Chebucto is one I've been to several times and while there are usually a few people around most of them spend $2.50 and stay there for an hour. I don't know how they stay in business.

Your dogma just got run over, sorry to say.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I lived adjacent to the convent when I was a little kid - I remember seeing the nuns come and go and wondering why they always wore what I later learned was called a habit. Later in life I lved a block away for many years. I know the area very well. And because of that I know that there is zero retail anywhere along North until you go east almost to Agricola, and damn little even after that. It is an overly narrow, heavily trafficked street with no stopping/parking along most of it, hardly ideal for retail. Maybe that's why there is none. The little cafe you mention up on Chebucto is one I've been to several times and while there are usually a few people around most of them spend $2.50 and stay there for an hour. I don't know how they stay in business.

Let me go out on a limb, and suggest it might just be the case that things have changed in the area since, you know, you were a kid and nuns used to "habit" the area.

You don't understand how the cafe survives? Well, let me go out on a limb again and say it might also be the case some people out there don't think the way you do-- maybe there's people out there who like it? Who don't mind spending $2.50 for a coffee? Wouldn't mind a few more cafes or other small local businesses around? Maybe some people prefer to *walk* for coffee, rather than drive?

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Planners have all the hackneyed phrases all tied up already.

Are you sure? How about this one:

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Your dogma just got run over, sorry to say.

And your dogma just ran itself over.

[Keith P.]

Lame. Give it up, you're just not clever enough.

[Waye Mason]

I am not sure retail would work there, but one of the things that was contemplated in the Centre Plan was requiring 14.5 foot first floors, so if at a later date thing changed (these buildings have a life span of say 40-several hundred years) then retail would fit. That makes sense to me.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Lame. Give it up, you're just not clever enough.

I'm definitely not clever enough.

But sorry, I'm never going to give it up. Never gonna to let SSP down.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

I am not sure retail would work there, but one of the things that was contemplated in the Centre Plan was requiring 14.5 foot first floors, so if at a later date thing changed (these buildings have a life span of say 40-several hundred years) then retail would fit. That makes sense to me.

Yeah, I wouldn't say the entire street level area needs to be retail, but reserving the space to make it possible makes sense; much better than what is in the design proposal right now.

[ILoveHalifax]

Nothing adds to a city more than a bunch of run down empty store fronts.

[Phalanx]

There are a handful of restaurants/cafes/takeouts/convenience stores within a block of this location. Not sure if there's really a demand for more given the proximity of Quinpool/HSC/Sobeys at this point. That said, I do think, to borrow an expression, 'fitted for but not with' retail (as Waye mentioned) to allow for future developments/neighbourhood changes is a wise idea.

That said, I really do not like the design of the building as proposed. I'm assuming they want to use the stone because it's reminiscent of the convent building, but it just looks out of place with the rest of the building. The aesthetic doesn't really fit with the rest of the neighbourhood, either. I'm not opposed to redeveloping the site, but I'd really hope that it would be a better design. I wonder if there's any way to incorporate the existing building into a redevelopment? There's a not-insignificant parking lot behind the building, and the building itself is 'U' shaped, leaving a lot of area for expansion/reconstruction.

And for the sake of full disclosure, I actually live at the current 6399 North.

[curnhalio]

If retail were to be made part of this, I doubt there is room for more than four or five storefronts, that would likely front onto Oxford. I wouldn't necessarily make room for parking either. Let's test out the theory that most people are in fact walking and biking to businesses in urban settings.

I like the idea of mandating ground floor heights to allow for retail, without having businesses go in right away.

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Street level retail? Why? It is not a retail area. That sounds like yet another old chestnut from the planner's book of maxims that must be used in every discussion.

Actually, I think the area is developing into a bit of a neighbourhood hub... I vote retail-appropriate. Use-based zoning is a relic that contributes to poor quality cities. If we look at this form-wise, the concrete wall is still an inappropriate response.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

Actually, I think the area is developing into a bit of a neighbourhood hub... I vote retail-appropriate. Use-based zoning is a relic that contributes to poor quality cities. If we look at this form-wise, the concrete wall is still an inappropriate response.

Yes. And better put than I ever could.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

I am trying to keep an open mind but I think it is inappropriate in 2014 to allow concrete walls up against the sidewalk so you can save some money on excavating the parking. It is just such bad urban design.

Agree!!! Why not just lower the building, suck up the cost and create some planter dividers between the units with amenity space on the ground and the sidewalk. This way; they could have a direct gate access to the sidewalk in dependant of the building. Out here in Calgary (and in Toronto and Vancouver from what I understand) units that have those sorts of features fetch higher prices.

Plus you then have eyes on the street when the outdoor amenity space is used and the people in the units can put plants in the planters. Creates a better urban experience.

[Dmajackson]

Halifax Planning Website

6399 North has been revised. The new building is rectangular with a prominant corner at North & Oxford, lighter colours, and ground floor townhouses on all three frontages.

Case 18388 Details

[Hali87]

Looks pretty nice! Honestly this seems like an alright trade-off now. With the previous proposal I honestly would have preferred they just kept the existing building.

[fenwick16]

I think it is a big improvement. It looks good.

[portapetey]

Not bad. Looks like they took halifaxboy's advice.

But with the slated roof on the corner facing out, one of the apartments is going to have no balcony. Or a ramp.

[Hali87]

I think it might just look that way because of the perspective.

[portapetey]

Originally Posted by Hali87

I think it might just look that way because of the perspective.

I dunno, I like the idea of a ramp. Skateboard right off that baby.

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by portapetey

I dunno, I like the idea of a ramp. Skateboard right off that baby.

It would fit with the existing character of the neighbourhood. Lotta skaters around there