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  #6121  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2023, 3:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Quixote View Post
A6 is the best, although Metro's proposal should include using Bechtel's proposed construction methodology (only using a larger TBM) and running automated trains.

They should also have an elevated version of A6.
Nooo.... the single bore is a bad idea. A bigger tunnel bore needs to be much deeper to avoid surface disruption, so any stations will be many stories deep underground. Several minutes to get from the street level down to the platform. Heavy reliance on elevators and escalators, when most transit agencies don't have the resources to keep them in good working order all the time.

Also there are (or should be) no "station boxes" with this construction type. The sole advantage is that station platforms (and crossovers) can be constructed within the single bore. In theory the tunneling is much more expensive with single bore, but the savings on stations and crossovers outweighs that for a slightly lower cost overall. If Bechtel is planning station boxes, they're doing it wrong! There is a shaft to the side of the tunnel for vertical access, though.
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  #6122  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2023, 4:29 AM
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
Nooo.... the single bore is a bad idea. A bigger tunnel bore needs to be much deeper to avoid surface disruption, so any stations will be many stories deep underground. Several minutes to get from the street level down to the platform. Heavy reliance on elevators and escalators, when most transit agencies don't have the resources to keep them in good working order all the time.

Also there are (or should be) no "station boxes" with this construction type. The sole advantage is that station platforms (and crossovers) can be constructed within the single bore. In theory the tunneling is much more expensive with single bore, but the savings on stations and crossovers outweighs that for a slightly lower cost overall. If Bechtel is planning station boxes, they're doing it wrong! There is a shaft to the side of the tunnel for vertical access, though.

STP (Bechtel) isn't doing a large single bore like San Jose or Barcelona... its more of like twin plus.... think just a bit bigger than our twin method. They are doing station boxes differently too. I put up the diagram several pages back (pg 298) on their method and its quite an interesting concept. 2 major things shrink the diameter in this proposal from other single bores.

1. Staggered Platforms
2. Low clearance trains by removing on board rotary propulsion systems

When I go back to the meeting, I will take pictures.

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Originally Posted by Quixote View Post
Yep. Watch the train pull out of the station at 13:25... 20 seconds later at 13:45 you see another train approaching!

Video Link
Whoa. That's crazy! I went back to page 298 to reference the tunnel stuff and realize I never watched this video before. That was 25 seconds between trains. on an automated system. Yeah, this could be LA

Last edited by hughfb3; Jan 23, 2023 at 11:17 PM.
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  #6123  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2023, 10:55 PM
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Ah. So the "station box" is just a small shaft from which they can widen the TBM tunnel in each direction for the side platforms, using Sequential Excavation Method or similar. It's an interesting concept. I imagine this solution would also simplify the construction of infill stations in the future.

Seems like these trains are just glorified airport trams, though (broadly, a "medium capacity rail" system) so why are they projecting significantly higher capacity than the monorail options? Obviously the underground alignment is much better than anything BYD is proposing.
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  #6124  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2023, 11:28 PM
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I am not a transit planner.

That said my gut tells me a for a city like LA, and for a city that has already established a certain heavy rail model that is currently in the midst of being expanded, carrying on with the established longer trains at slightly wider intervals is better than this construction proposal based entirely around the premise of permanently shorter trains but at closer intervals. It just has major mistake written all over it to me. I could be wrong. I and others remind me of that frequently.
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  #6125  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2023, 11:56 PM
hughfb3 hughfb3 is offline
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
Seems like these trains are just glorified airport trams, though (broadly, a "medium capacity rail" system) so why are they projecting significantly higher capacity than the monorail options? Obviously the underground alignment is much better than anything BYD is proposing.
Guangzhou's line 5 with the same type technology as Alt 4/5 saw 1.485 million daily riders on 19 miles of route in 2019. Out of their 14 Metro rail lines, 3 of them use this technology.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_5_(Guangzhou_Metro)

Tokyo's Toei Ōedo Metro line on 25 miles of track did 933,621 daily riders in 2016.

Los Angeles' entire system of bus and rail did 1.096 million daily riders in December 2019
https://isotp.metro.net/MetroRidership/

-----------------*UPDATE*-------------------------------
Metro just sent out an email to (me) all those that attended the meeting. There is a lot and I didnt post anything Alt 1-3. If there is anything you want to see, just let me know, otherwise Ill just post this...

The Circles are the station entrances, the blue is the Sepulveda Pass station boxes and the green are other metro rail stations

Below Alt 4/5 (1st/Left); Alt 6 (2nd/Right) Van Nuys/Metrolink Terminus

4/5 create what looks to be a pedestrian bridge to the Van Nuys Light Rail and easier access to Metrolink. 6 has easier access to the Van Nuys LR and a pedestrian tunnel to the Metrolink

Below Alt 4/5 (1st/Left); Alt 6 (2nd/Right) Wilshire/Westwood

4/5 add 2 more station entrances, 6 has the one entrance 2 blocks north

Last edited by hughfb3; Jan 24, 2023 at 1:45 AM.
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  #6126  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2023, 4:29 AM
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Originally Posted by hughfb3 View Post
Guangzhou's line 5 with the same type technology as Alt 4/5 saw 1.485 million daily riders on 19 miles of route in 2019. Out of their 14 Metro rail lines, 3 of them use this technology.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_5_(Guangzhou_Metro)

Tokyo's Toei Ōedo Metro line on 25 miles of track did 933,621 daily riders in 2016.

Los Angeles' entire system of bus and rail did 1.096 million daily riders in December 2019
https://isotp.metro.net/MetroRidership/
The technology isn't the issue, but the platform length and the number of cars per train. If the trains are automated you can run them 2 minutes apart for a very high capacity even with short trains and platforms (assuming the signals can support it) but if you have drivers, then I doubt Metro can afford the labor costs to run trains that often. And LA is still a pretty "pro-labor" city so I have to imagine there will be strong opposition to any driverless systems.

Personally I think capacity is kind of a red herring issue; LA is still an extremely car-oriented city and the anchors along Sepulveda don't have strongly peaked traffic like a CBD office district. Students and faculty arrive at UCLA at various times. I think even a low-capacity technology will not get maxed out within my lifetime. But if people want to attack the BYD monorail options based on capacity issues, then the Bechtel subway may have similar issues in practice (even if not in theory).
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  #6127  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2023, 7:40 AM
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Amtrak to restore weekend rail service between San Diego and Orange counties


Crews conduct hillside stabilization work in November at the site of a recurring landslide near San Clemente.(Charlie Neuman / For the San Diego Union-Tribune)

Phil Diehl
San Diego Union-Tribune
January 23, 2023

Amtrak passenger service between Orange and San Diego counties, which has been suspended since Sept. 30, could resume on weekends as soon as Feb. 4, a transportation official said Monday.

Passenger service has been on hold because of ongoing efforts to stabilize the site of a recurring landslide near San Clemente that was activated again by heavy rain last fall. A contractor hired by the Orange County Transportation Authority is installing 220 ground anchors drilled deep into bedrock to steady the slope.

“Construction progress to date has ceased any appreciable slope movement over the last few weeks,” said Jim Beil, the agency’s executive director of capital programs.

“As a result of that, we’ve recommended reestablishment of the weekend passenger service,” Beil told the Orange County Transportation Authority board Monday morning. “We believe it’s now safe for Metrolink and Amtrak Pacific Surfliner to resume the weekend service.”

Metrolink trains ran as far south as Oceanside before the suspension. Currently, those trains go only as far south as the San Clemente Pier station, and OCTA officials have not said when service might resume to Oceanside.

Metrolink and Amtrak passengers were asked to check pacificsurfliner.com/alerts and metrolinktrains.com for updates on rail service and schedules.

“Even with the recent heavy rain and high tides, our approach to this project has proven effective in keeping the track from moving and we’re pleased to announce that passenger service can safely resume on weekends,” OCTA Chairman Gene Hernandez, the mayor of Yorba Linda, said in a news release Monday afternoon. “I want to thank the public for their patience and I hope everyone can understand that ensuring passenger safety guides all of our actions.”

Weather permitting, the contractor will continue working 12-hour weekday shifts, officials said. Passenger service will remain suspended on weekdays to ensure the safety of construction crews and the efficient completion of the project. Freight service, which usually runs at night, has continued across the repair site, although at reduced speeds and frequency.

“The beach area is constrained and the work requires the operation and movement of large construction equipment with personnel on and around the tracks,” said OCTA spokesman Eric Carpenter.

Two rows of ground anchors are being installed in the slope above the tracks. The top row has been completed; work on the second row has begun and should be completed by mid-March. After that, the site will be regraded, cleaned up and closed out.

North County Transit District continues to operate its Coaster commuter line between San Diego and Oceanside. Amtrak also makes runs between those two cities, and offers a “bus bridge” link between Oceanside and the Amtrak station at Irvine in Orange County that allows passengers to take trains farther north.

The seaside route is the only rail connection between San Diego and Los Angeles, and the rest of the United States.

The segment is part of the LOSSAN corridor between San Diego, Los Angeles and San Luis Obispo, which is the second-busiest passenger train route in the United States, surpassed only by the Northeast Corridor between Washington and Boston.
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  #6128  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2023, 2:12 PM
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Transit projects in San Fernando Valley, Inglewood, OC, IE, win state grants
Though pushed by LA Metro, the L (Gold) Line extension from Pomona into Claremont and Montclair wasn't funded


Construction project on the L Line (formerly known as the Gold Line) where it passes through San Dimas on Tuesday, Jan. 31, 2023. The project is funded through to Pomona. However, hopes were dashed once again on Tuesday, Jan. 31, 2023 when the state transportation agency did not fund the extension to Claremont and Montclair in San Bernardino County. (Photo by Dean Musgrove, Los Angeles Daily News/SCNG)

By Steve Scauzillo
LA Daily News
Jan 31, 2023

"A first-ever light-rail line for the San Fernando Valley, a streetcar in central Orange County, a people-mover in Inglewood and a dedicated bus project serving Ontario International Airport were all winners in a major grant allocation from the state’s transportation agency on Tuesday, Jan. 31.

However, an extension of the L (formerly Gold) Line from Pomona into Montclair in San Bernardino County was left off the list, causing waves of disappointment from representatives of the San Gabriel Valley cities and cities in the Inland Empire, who have tried several times and failed to secure gap funding for the project.

“This is very disappointing news, as we believe the shovel-ready project was very competitive and could have utilized the funding quickly to create jobs and economic output for our region,” wrote Habib Balian, CEO of the Foothill Gold Line Construction Authority, in a statement released Tuesday..."

https://www.dailynews.com/2023/01/31...-state-grants/
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  #6129  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2023, 5:49 PM
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I think this has been discussed before, but do we know if the Inglewood people mover's technology is compatible with the LAX people mover's? I know there's no plan to connect them, but it would be great to leave that possibility open in the future. A one-seat people mover ride straight from the airport terminals to one of the biggest sports and entertainment centers in the region would be pretty cool.
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  #6130  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2023, 12:59 AM
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I think this has been discussed before, but do we know if the Inglewood people mover's technology is compatible with the LAX people mover's? I know there's no plan to connect them, but it would be great to leave that possibility open in the future. A one-seat people mover ride straight from the airport terminals to one of the biggest sports and entertainment centers in the region would be pretty cool.
Are there hotels and other amenities adjacent to the stadium? If not, what's the point.
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  #6131  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2023, 1:20 AM
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Here's Urbanize's take on the good news:

L.A. area passenger rail projects nab more than $1B in state funding

Light rail in the Valley, a people mover in Inglewood, and more

Steven Sharp
Urbanize Los Angeles
February 1, 2023

A report issued yesterday by the California State Transportation Agency announces more than $1 billion in new funding for planned and under-construction passenger rail projects in Southern California - including a new people mover system in the City of Inglewood and upgrades to Metrolink's regional rail system.

“The projects funded represent critical transportation and will provide alternatives to driving with access to a modernized, public transit system,” said Governor Gavin Newsom in a news release. “California is unwavering in our commitment to our world-leading climate agenda, including record levels of investments in public transportation projects to electrify fleets, expand and improve service, and spark ridership growth.”

The new round of funding, which supplements projects that have already received money from California's Transit and Intercity Rail Capital Program, will go toward L.A. area projects including:

Inglewood Transit Connector ($407 million)


Rendering of a people mover station in Downtown Inglewood

The City of Inglewood will receive $407 million for a more than $1.5-billion people mover system which is intended to connect the recently-opened K Line with destinations such as SoFi Stadium and the future home of the Los Angeles Clippers. That funding, combined with existing local funding streams, is expected to allow Inglewood to compete for a Federal New Starts grant, with the aim of opening the people mover system prior to the Olympics in 2028. That would require a full funding agreement by the end of 2023.


East San Fernando Valley Transit Corridor ($600 million)


Route of East San Fernando Valley light rail line

Metro will receive $600 million for the construction of a long-planned light rail line down Van Nuys Boulevard in the San Fernando Valley, supplementing local tax return that is already allocated to the project, as well as more than $900 million in Federal funds. Utility work began late last year for the East San Fernando Valley Line, which is expected to cost upwards of $2 billion and feature 11 stops on a 6.7-mile route between the G Line busway and Pacoima.


OC Streetcar ($149.8 million)


Map of the OC Streetcar system

The Orange County Transportation Authority will see nearly $150 million in supplemental funding for the OC Streetcar project, now under construction between Santa Ana and Garden Grove. The project, which will include four miles of track, is slated to open in 2024.


Metrolink SCORE ($106.9 million)


Metrolink service map following the proposed improvements.

Southern California's regional rail provider Metrolink is set to receive nearly $107 million to implement three projects in its $10-billion SCORE program, which calls for strategic investments to enable 30-minute service intervals across the more than 500-mile network. The new state money will go toward the extension of a siding track at the El Monte Station, the addition of roughly two miles of double-track along the Ventura County Line in Simi Valley, and the construction of a new stretch of triple-track in Fullerton.

Besides the above, the LOSSAN Rail Corridor Agency was awarded more than $20 million for the construction of a new layover facility and right-of-way repairs to the north of Los Angeles County. Additionally, the San Bernardino County Transportation Authority has received $15.7 million to transition from diesel multiple units to zero-emission vehicles on its Redlands Passenger Rail project, as well as $18.7 million for its West Valley Connector Bus Rapid Transit system.
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  #6132  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2023, 1:58 AM
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We took this trip to Garden Grove
It smelled like Lou Dog inside the streetcar...

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OC Streetcar ($149.8 million)


Map of the OC Streetcar system

The Orange County Transportation Authority will see nearly $150 million in supplemental funding for the OC Streetcar project, now under construction between Santa Ana and Garden Grove. The project, which will include four miles of track, is slated to open in 2024.
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  #6133  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2023, 3:09 AM
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What a sublime comment
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  #6134  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2023, 6:52 PM
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THIS is news!! Money to start these projects!

I'm not worried about the Gold (L) line Authority eventually getting funding... the San Gabriel Valley seems to be the most "well-oiled machine" in LA County and maybe California around a specific transit project

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalKid View Post
I think this has been discussed before, but do we know if the Inglewood people mover's technology is compatible with the LAX people mover's? I know there's no plan to connect them, but it would be great to leave that possibility open in the future. A one-seat people mover ride straight from the airport terminals to one of the biggest sports and entertainment centers in the region would be pretty cool.
We don't know yet. Inglewood has been pretty hush about it and I've been looking all. Does anyone know? It would be great if it was compatible with either the LAX people mover or Sepulveda Pass Rail.

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Are there hotels and other amenities adjacent to the stadium? If not, what's the point.
Yeah, it's a whole district with 4 major sport/performance venues, movie theaters, restaurants.
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  #6135  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2023, 10:30 PM
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The Metrolink upgrades will be great to see. Having service between Burbank & downtown LA at greater than 10 minute frequencies (8 trains per hour) is fantastic. And further out, having 15 minute frequencies from places like Santa Clarita, the San Fernando Valley, Anaheim, and Irvine, along with approximately 10 minute frequencies from Fullerton (6 trains per hour) is also quite a nice upgrade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by craigs View Post

Metrolink SCORE ($106.9 million)


Metrolink service map following the proposed improvements.

Southern California's regional rail provider Metrolink is set to receive nearly $107 million to implement three projects in its $10-billion SCORE program, which calls for strategic investments to enable 30-minute service intervals across the more than 500-mile network. The new state money will go toward the extension of a siding track at the El Monte Station, the addition of roughly two miles of double-track along the Ventura County Line in Simi Valley, and the construction of a new stretch of triple-track in Fullerton.

Besides the above, the LOSSAN Rail Corridor Agency was awarded more than $20 million for the construction of a new layover facility and right-of-way repairs to the north of Los Angeles County. Additionally, the San Bernardino County Transportation Authority has received $15.7 million to transition from diesel multiple units to zero-emission vehicles on its Redlands Passenger Rail project, as well as $18.7 million for its West Valley Connector Bus Rapid Transit system.
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  #6136  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2023, 10:30 PM
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THIS is news!! Money to start these projects!



Yeah, it's a whole district with 4 major sport/performance venues, movie theaters, restaurants.
Not to mention all the housing thats coming in, retail, offices, etc
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  #6137  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2023, 5:54 AM
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Originally Posted by hughfb3 View Post
We don't know yet. Inglewood has been pretty hush about it and I've been looking all. Does anyone know? It would be great if it was compatible with either the LAX people mover or Sepulveda Pass Rail.
It depends on who wins the contract. There are separate teams that include BYD (who would not be compatible with LAX but may be compatible with Sepulveda monorail) and Bombadier/Alston (who would be compatible with LAX but not compatible with Sepulveda monorail).

https://www.cityofinglewood.org/Agen...4?fileID=13658
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  #6138  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2023, 6:26 AM
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It depends on who wins the contract. There are separate teams that include BYD (who would not be compatible with LAX but may be compatible with Sepulveda monorail) and Bombadier/Alston (who would be compatible with LAX but not compatible with Sepulveda monorail).

https://www.cityofinglewood.org/Agen...4?fileID=13658
Always be coming with the good good
Bombardier (depending) could be compatible with Sepulveda if STP (Bechtel) chooses Vancouver Skytrain tech, which they have been quoting quite a bit in their documents, although they havent officially chosen. I'm grateful for BYD putting the concept of linked projects into City of Inglewood and Metro's ear, even if they may or may not get chosen. BYD and Bombardier are in both proposals. LAX people mover is also Bombardier

Those Metrolink upgrades will be quite transformative as well.

Last edited by hughfb3; Feb 3, 2023 at 11:43 PM.
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  #6139  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2023, 9:42 AM
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Are there hotels and other amenities adjacent to the stadium? If not, what's the point.
Unless there are a lot of hotels in this plan, I also don’t see how that would be justified. Who gets off a plane and goes straight to the superbowl? They go straight to the hotel they’re staying at. And when they leave the game, they go back to their hotel, not straight to LAX for a flight back home (bringing their luggage to the game?). In other words, LAX to the stadium doesn’t really factor in anyone’s usual plans even if they are using both.
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  #6140  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2023, 4:11 PM
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There are a lot of hotels near lax though
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