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  #41  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2018, 6:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Vixx View Post
That's not true. Harper pumped a lot of $ into infrastructure.
He was coerced into it because the economy was so threatened. But as soon as the immediate threat passed, it was all about cutting. He was also spending the surplus that he had inherited from the previous government.

So much of that infrastructure investment was shortsighted while the best projects require several years of planning. I still drive by a traffic signal that was funded by the Conservative infrastructure program that is never used. Small bananas but still a waste of my tax money.

When the Conservatives talk about tax cuts, we are permanently cutting our ability to fund infrastructure renewal.

Now listen to Doug Ford. Isn't he talking about tax cuts? How does this allow for ongoing infrastructure funding? He may allow current projects to continue but future projects will come to a grinding halt.

It is a whole political debate whether tax cuts or government spending is more effective at stimulating the economy. Has there ever been a study on this? Regardless, at some point, government has to spend money on public infrastructure. At that point, the political debate is irrelevant. The money needs to be found and that is tax money. If the government has given it all back to the public to make purchases at the dollar store or Walmart, were those tax cuts money well spent? Walmart is not going to fix our potholes or invest in a subway line. Instead, they would rather spend money in Bangladesh to increase their profits, while demanding lower corporate tax rates.

Last edited by lrt's friend; Apr 18, 2018 at 6:41 PM.
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  #42  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2018, 6:46 PM
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Now listen to Doug Ford. Isn't he talking about tax cuts? How does this allow for ongoing infrastructure funding? He may allow current projects to continue but future projects will come to a grinding halt.
Although he is running in Ontario, not Quebec (I doubt if any Ontario government would fund Gatineau's LRT system ).

I think Trudeau has a good shot at another mandate, which would give enough time to have the project far enough along to make it hard for a new government to axe the project. The fact that it is in Quebec will make it even harder.
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  #43  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2018, 6:48 PM
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Do we have any idea what this theoretical LRT line will look geographically? IE line, stations, etc.?
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  #44  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2018, 6:50 PM
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Do we have any idea what this theoretical LRT line will look geographically? IE line, stations, etc.?
We haven't even decided if it will be one of two corridors (Allumettières to the north, or Taché-Aylmer-Principale to the south) or if we'll use both corridors.

But it will be one of those three options I am pretty sure.

The direct linkages with the O-Train system (if any) have not been determined yet either.
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  #45  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2018, 7:02 PM
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Although he is running in Ontario, not Quebec (I doubt if any Ontario government would fund Gatineau's LRT system ).

I think Trudeau has a good shot at another mandate, which would give enough time to have the project far enough along to make it hard for a new government to axe the project. The fact that it is in Quebec will make it even harder.
According to the polls at the moment Quebec will elect its first CAQ government this fall.

They're a bit further to the right than any of the other parties in this province but they're far from slash and burn right-wingers of the Mike Harris/Doug Ford variety.

Unless you wear a niqab face veil and want to become a cop you won't have much to worry about...
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  #46  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2018, 7:51 PM
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
He was coerced into it because the economy was so threatened. But as soon as the immediate threat passed, it was all about cutting. He was also spending the surplus that he had inherited from the previous government.

So much of that infrastructure investment was shortsighted while the best projects require several years of planning. I still drive by a traffic signal that was funded by the Conservative infrastructure program that is never used. Small bananas but still a waste of my tax money.

When the Conservatives talk about tax cuts, we are permanently cutting our ability to fund infrastructure renewal.

Now listen to Doug Ford. Isn't he talking about tax cuts? How does this allow for ongoing infrastructure funding? He may allow current projects to continue but future projects will come to a grinding halt.

It is a whole political debate whether tax cuts or government spending is more effective at stimulating the economy. Has there ever been a study on this? Regardless, at some point, government has to spend money on public infrastructure. At that point, the political debate is irrelevant. The money needs to be found and that is tax money. If the government has given it all back to the public to make purchases at the dollar store or Walmart, were those tax cuts money well spent? Walmart is not going to fix our potholes or invest in a subway line. Instead, they would rather spend money in Bangladesh to increase their profits, while demanding lower corporate tax rates.
Point being that he still spent the money, doesn't really matter if he was "coerced" or not. And at least the nation's finances were in half decent shape (not saying perfect, but a hell of a lot better then now); I can also come up with ways this government has wasted tax dollars in ways that go far beyond small bananas.

I don't mean to derail the thread as there are threads discussing politics, just wanted to point this out.
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  #47  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2018, 8:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Aylmer View Post
Google translation:
Which just makes the Rapibus system all the more infuriating; they had the rail right of way, they could have linked it to Bayview, and then expanded LRT west into Aylmer.
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  #48  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2018, 8:09 PM
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Infrastructure spending by the federal government is a rounding error, no matter what party is in power, and really has nothing to do with whether taxes are cut or not.

Infrastructure Canada spent 3.2B in 16-17 (down from 3.8B in 12-13).

In comparison total government spending was 330B in the last budget.
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  #49  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2018, 8:58 PM
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To build these big ticket projects, there needs to be financial support from both the province and the feds. On occasion these projects proceed with only the province on board. But if the province is not on board, it is no go for big infrastructure projects. If the province has a policy of austerity or tax cuts, forget it.
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  #50  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2018, 9:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
We haven't even decided if it will be one of two corridors (Allumettières to the north, or Taché-Aylmer-Principale to the south) or if we'll use both corridors.

But it will be one of those three options I am pretty sure.

The direct linkages with the O-Train system (if any) have not been determined yet either.
Will a two transfer plan via Bayview be palatable to Gatineau residents?

Or will they not notice it until it is too late?
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  #51  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2018, 9:04 PM
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Will a two transfer plan via Bayview be palatable to Gatineau residents?

Or will they not notice it until it is too late?
I really, really doubt that the "two transfer via Bayview" plan will end up being what they choose.

Given that most of the corridor going west (either the north or the south routing) through the Plateau and Aylmer is low density, that actually means a three transfer trip for most people.
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  #52  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2018, 11:04 PM
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Will a two transfer plan via Bayview be palatable to Gatineau residents?

Or will they not notice it until it is too late?
A Bayview-only option won't happen. Beyond considerations for Gatineau commuters, OC Transpo knows that having some 60 000 people transferring at one point will overload the station and further worsen the unbalanced passenger loads. After all, LRT west of downtown will be carrying passengers from two branches PLUS the Trillium Line while the east has only one branch.

For once, the interest of STO and OC Transpo users are aligned: A Bayview-only option would be terrible for everyone involved. Barring a tunnel under the river between downtown Hull and Ottawa, the only realistic and viable option is the Alexandra Bridge.
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  #53  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2018, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
Do we have any idea what this theoretical LRT line will look geographically? IE line, stations, etc.?
This was posted in the Rapibus forum last fall, sourced from Twitter and attributed as the plan championed by Greg Fergus, Hull/Aylmer MP. It may or may not represent what the Aylmer LRT plan might be, but at least gives a good visual perspective.



https://twitter.com/GodefroyChabi/st...78752797528064

Note that this graphic implies a POW bridge crossing by the Trillium Line
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  #54  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2018, 2:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Horus View Post
This was posted in the Rapibus forum last fall, sourced from Twitter and attributed as the plan championed by Greg Fergus, Hull/Aylmer MP. It may or may not represent what the Aylmer LRT plan might be, but at least gives a good visual perspective.



https://twitter.com/GodefroyChabi/st...78752797528064

Note that this graphic implies a POW bridge crossing by the Trillium Line
Actually looks good. Unless you live in the Gatineau sector.
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  #55  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2018, 3:16 AM
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That's a really good plan. It uses a link to Rideau as the main interprovincial link while reserving the PoW bridge for being a more niche-needs link.

In the future, the Rapibus roadway could be converted to LRT and then interline with the other two lines from UQO to Rideau.
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  #56  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2018, 3:43 AM
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Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
That's a really good plan. It uses a link to Rideau as the main interprovincial link while reserving the PoW bridge for being a more niche-needs link.

In the future, the Rapibus roadway could be converted to LRT and then interline with the other two lines from UQO to Rideau.
In 2040. 10 years after the Plateau-Aylmer line opens.
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  #57  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2018, 11:33 AM
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Transportation is going to get a lot more painful in the Plateau-Aylmer area over the next decade. I don't wish for it to happen but the city keeps approving new developments like crazy and the only major road project is the widening of Pink to four lanes and it only leads to St-Raymond which is already bottlenecked.

Gatineau has expanded westward recently due to the presence of a wide flat plain between Hull and Aylmer almost all the way to the river after it veers north. This area is also blessed with no river crossings unlike the area to the east of the Gatineau River. So this makes road links easier.

At least in theory but there are only three road crossings through Gatineau Park and I doubt the NCC will be super open to widening any of them. And certainly there won't be any new ones. (Though I am sure they will be accommodating for a transit link of some kind through the park - provided it's in the same corridor as one of the roads.)

It doesn't affect me but I wonder if the STO shouldn't be putting together a cheapo BRT or at least expanded buses only lane network as a temporary solution even as they also move towards a rail system that's still a long way away.

In some cases the new roadway for buses could form a basis for the rail system's right of way in terms of land acquisition, clearing and even road-rail bed... I am sure this is technically possible.
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  #58  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2018, 11:57 AM
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In the future, the Rapibus roadway could be converted to LRT and then interline with the other two lines from UQO to Rideau.
Except, if you notice, the station is named UQO, not Taché-uqo, so I don't think they are the same station. I believe the station will be further west, due south of the University. I don't think they will want the trains to backtrack to there, and Rue Millar is in the way for getting direct access to the line.

I have put a guess as to where I think the line will run into Google MyMaps:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=12h...lW&usp=sharing

Downtown Hull is the big question. They may decide to follow Laurier instead.
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  #59  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2018, 1:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post

At least in theory but there are only three road crossings through Gatineau Park and I doubt the NCC will be super open to widening any of them. And certainly there won't be any new ones. (Though I am sure they will be accommodating for a transit link of some kind through the park - provided it's in the same corridor as one of the roads.)
That would likely be the existing Gamelin ROW through the park, the one the NCC partially shut down some 5 or so years ago to "preserve frog habitat". While neither were great options before, it did make St-Raymond and des Allumettières worse ever since. That route doesn't really jive with the route presented in the map above, but seems to be the most likely place for a transit-only crossing, perhaps even for a temporary BRT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
It doesn't affect me but I wonder if the STO shouldn't be putting together a cheapo BRT or at least expanded buses only lane network as a temporary solution even as they also move towards a rail system that's still a long way away.

In some cases the new roadway for buses could form a basis for the rail system's right of way in terms of land acquisition, clearing and even road-rail bed... I am sure this is technically possible.
The transit report released earlier this year did offer some suggestions for BRT-lite options for the west end that could offer some temporary relief and improvements in service, and some were relatively inexpensive to implement, such as painting bus lanes on Allumettières or Principale. I'd think that if any new ROW were to be used, they would be unlikely to use it for buses and then quickly switch it to LRT, if they are already planning to commit to LRT. This isn't quite like what OCTranspo has done with the Phase 2 extension to Moodie, which had already been committed to BRT.

Even a stop-gap solution will have to overcome the challenges of the limited number of Gatineau Park crossings and the congestion leading up to the Champlain bridge approaches from the West on Lucerne and Principale. Those are the key choke points in traffic between Aylmer and Hull.
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  #60  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2018, 1:13 PM
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post

I have put a guess as to where I think the line will run into Google MyMaps:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=12h...lW&usp=sharing

Downtown Hull is the big question. They may decide to follow Laurier instead.
I don't know how much tunnelling vs. surface will be considered, but Laurier as opposed to the routing you've chosen through the heart of Vieux-Hull would reduce the amount of tunnelling considerably. Or at least minimize disruption to existing built-up areas if they're staying on the surface of this segment.
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