Pedestrian Mall in the Exchange District

[The Diva]

OK, but the current situation is not yielding anything. I'm sorry, but if you choose to be the owner of a heritage building in a designated district, you should not be permitted to allow it to deteriorate.

The housing market in this city is strong enough, and of course Waterfront's success is testimony, that Reiss can develop lofts in the Ryan Building and they would sell; it is the family's ignorance and perhaps desire to tear the Ryan Block down for a parking lot that prevents this. The same can be said of other buildings. They are either holding out to suck as much money as they can from potential buyers of their buildings/land, or are just f*cken assholes who do not care about this city and its heritage buildings.

Look around this forum, and in other cities where there is little demand for office space, empty buildings are being converted to residential. There is no reason why this should not happen here; building owners here are pretty stupid and ignorant. Greentree cannot find tenants to fill the Union Bank Building...Okay, so it will sit idle. Um, well, our rental vacancy rate for apartments is so low that, like the Lindsay Building, it would fill fast. Even Detroit is converting so many vacant buildings into residential because it does not need office space.

With a 25 year exemption from rent control, the many vacant buildings we have can be converted. I think there is something that exists only here...some strange ignorance or refusal to follow what other cities are doing. Housing market is strong, vacancy rate is low, population growth = economic factors conducive to filling empty buildings and surface lots. With about 2,000 well-paid Hydro employees coming downtown, I have faith that some would want to relocate nearby, but wait, there is nowhere to move to.

I do not buy your economics theory newflyer.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by rgalston

Yes, the day-to-day street life on Albert Street pales in comparison to those of great cities, but can you think of any better local examples downtown?

it pales in comparison to average cities....edmonton, calgary, ottawa, quebec, victoria and from the looks of it even regina have urban retail strips that make albert look like a back lane.

graham, broadway, portage and osborne have more street life, but just because it has minimal success doesnt mean it can be considered successful or that we should not search for ways to actually meet its potential.

a third line centre man on a tier four hockey team can hardly say there is nothing to strive for....

[trueviking]

buildings that have been designated as 'heritage structures' should have an increasing tax levy every year as they sit empty and if someone buys one and renovates it they should recieve a tax break in the same sliding scale.

this might be tough with normal buildings, but a plan like that could be implemented for historically listed buildings.

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by trueviking

buildings that have been designated as 'heritage structures' should have an increasing tax levy every year as they sit empty and if someone buys one and renovates it they should recieve a tax break in the same sliding scale.

this might be tough with normal buildings, but a plan like that could be implemented for historically listed buildings.

What has been done with a building or two in Calgary is the city has agreed to freeze taxes (for example for 15 years), if someone renovates, so they can enjoy the increased revenue from the renovated building for 15 years at the tax rating the less valuable dilapidated version was assessed at.

[IntotheWest]

Closing that street to traffic would be great! Then, you can grab your burger at Albert Street Burgers, and cross the street to go sit down without looking for cars :-)

Seriously, I think this a good idea - at least somewhere in the Exchange - and Albert street actually makes great sense being so close to Portage and Main.

[The Diva]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

What has been done with a building or two in Calgary is the city has agreed to freeze taxes (for example for 15 years), if someone renovates, so they can enjoy the increased revenue from the renovated building for 15 years at the tax rating the less valuable dilapidated version was assessed at.

Well, the city is going to create anytime now incentives, as posted a couple of pages back, to spur residential activity; if that doe snot work, we might as well close up shop and abandon this city because I am affraid the people we have left in this city (the ones who have NOT moved to Alberta and BC) are not smart enough to realize that what works in Detroit can work here. I am hopeful that Centreventure (the city's downtown redevelopment agency) has a new President who (gasp) has the vision and knowledge of what downtown needs. For instance, we are not in a situation (like Vancouver--but that is another story) where we need office space, but potential residents of downtown do complain about parking (esp. safe parking) so Centreventure is going to have a few parkades built at strategic points downtown; I have travelled across the states and have seen numerous modern, funky parking garages with glass cladding, shrubs, etc atop, retail on the main level...you better believe I will take this over a surface lot adorned with weeds.

[drew]

Originally Posted by The Diva

The housing market in this city is strong enough, and of course Waterfront's success is testimony, that Reiss can develop lofts in the Ryan Building and they would sell; it is the family's ignorance and perhaps desire to tear the Ryan Block down for a parking lot that prevents this. The same can be said of other buildings. They are either holding out to suck as much money as they can from potential buyers of their buildings/land, or are just f*cken assholes who do not care about this city and its heritage buildings.

^ well said.

I understand Newflyer's economics argument - but here in Winnipeg, you cannot discount the delinquent owner factor. I think it is a very safe assumption that many of the blocks in the exchange/downtown have been held tight by your typical "looking for a deal" Winnipeggers, who bought these properties for next to nothing years ago, and won't relinquish them till they get some outrageous offer that's never coming.

[The Diva]

Yes. For instance, I met a gentleman about a year ago who owns 112 Market Avenue:


I asked him about converting the building to residential, and his response was "ugh, no" I asked why. He really did not have a reason, but this guy is incredibly cheap, so I assumed that was why. I talked to him a couple of months ago, and he actually warmed up to the idea. I think he is typical of building owners who just do not care about the area. We need people with vision to buy and renovate these buildings. This is where the city needs to come in.

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by The Diva

Yes. For instance, I met a gentleman about a year ago who owns 112 Market Avenue:


I asked him about converting the building to residential, and his response was "ugh, no" I asked why. He really did not have a reason, but this guy is incredibly cheap, so I assumed that was why. I talked to him a couple of months ago, and he actually warmed up to the idea. I think he is typical of building owners who just do not care about the area. We need people with vision to buy and renovate these buildings. This is where the city needs to come in.

That would be a cool residential building.

[newflyer]

Originally Posted by The Diva

With a 25 year exemption from rent control, the many vacant buildings we have can be converted. I think there is something that exists only here...some strange ignorance or refusal to follow what other cities are doing. Housing market is strong, vacancy rate is low, population growth = economic factors conducive to filling empty buildings and surface lots. With about 2,000 well-paid Hydro employees coming downtown, I have faith that some would want to relocate nearby, but wait, there is nowhere to move to.

I do not buy your economics theory newflyer.

You say you don't buy my "theory", which is really economic fact, but with that aside you suggest factors such as population, restrictive rent control, population growth, and the relocation of MB hydro are all factors to be considered.

All these are economic factors .. which do/has and will impact the realestate market. It really all comes down to supply vs demand .. and the return of investment in the Winnipeg market verus other forms of investment. Most investors have held properties waiting for the economic factors to improve.

As we are seeing business taxes slowly decline, as well as suggestions of cutung the capital tax, Manitiba is still among the most taxes places on the continient. To be blunt many investment dollars are bypassing Manitiba or leaving Manitoba, for greener pastures, as we aren't very investment friendly, nor is there much demand for downtown development. You can tell yourself it can't be this all you wish, but the reality definatly would agree with me.

If investors would make a good return on investment by filling demands for new buildings they would be lining up. I don't think I've ever met a businessman who would snub a profitable opportunity.

The laws of economics don't bypass Winnipeg .. its really very alive and well. If we want better than things have to change. Pushing for government to make Manitoba a "have province" is probibly the biggest thing you could do to make downtown a better place. As the MB Chamber is pushing.

-------------------------------------------

The Manitoba Chamber of Commerce holds its 76th annual meeting this weekend in Winnipeg.
Chamber president Graham Starmer says they'll be sticking to their theme of making Manitoba a "HAVE" province..
Starmer also told the Winnipeg Business report on CJOB Tuesday night they plan to make an announcement Friday about the Museum of Human Rights. He says they'll be attempting to form a partnership with other Chambers and businesses around the province with the aim of raising funds towards the construction of the facility..

Starmer adds the keynote speakers at the Annual Conference are from Chicago, Toronto and Atlantic Canada..

CJOB's Robert Holland reporting


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[viperred88]

NOw if the underground mall would close down then u would see positive effects to this albert st. plan.

[The Diva]

Quebec is burdened with high taxes, and a not-so-hot economy. Have you seen the projects being developed there (Montreal)? The country of Quebec--sorry, the province of Quebec...he he...receives many Immigrants of course. So, at the end of the day, it is not always a matter of taxes. The fact of the matter is that we are growing, and the number of people wanting an urban lifestyle here is on the rise, but (again) when you have no new apartments being built downtown, it makes it challenging to increase the population of downtown. We have a sizeable workforce downtown, and in order to brng them downtown to live, the housing needs to be built.

If investors would make a good return on investment by filling demands for new buildings they would be lining up. I don't think I've ever met a businessman who would snub a profitable opportunity.

If you are talking office space, I agree. I still say though that the market downtown is ripe for increased residential development. I think the property owners we have are disgustingly cheap, and are waiting for Centreventure to buy their land/buildings, or they are asking too much (like that idiot who owns the former McDonalds across from CBC on Portage). Another building that has sat vacant for so long is a charming little building on Fort:



It has been on the market for a reeeealy long time; convert this into a few apartments. That would involve vision. With a apartment vacancy rate as low as ours, come on, there is your supply and demand. The demand IS present, but no freakin' supply.

It is too easy to blame "economics" as you repeatedly preach NewFlyer; I do agree our tax environment is not good; so are many other jurisdictions. Small business is important; well, we do have the lowest small business tax in the country. Has that really helped?

[Lee_Haber8]

What's holding Winnipeg back is not just the underlying conditions, but image as well. Being such a miserable place for so long (it still is, but less so), Winnipeg is the 'laughing stock' of the country. Someone asked me where I was from and I said Winnipeg. He then replied 'I would've said cool, but it's Winnipeg'
Anybody who knows people from other parts of the country know that is very common. Even though stories about the city are often exaggerated, there are mostly based on a grain of truth; Winnipeg is a poor city with a dead downtown and boring, ugly suburbs.

How do you reverse the city's image? You have to 'flip the table' and completely change the things that cause the negative image. How do you solve mediocrity - build a spectacular museum at the Forks. Dead Downtown - Get tens of thousands of people living there, kickstarting with tax incentives. Ugliness - Give city planners power and listen to them! Poverty - Improve the economy by getting of regressive taxes. Poor transportation - Build a state of the art rapid transit system. Boring place to live - Greenbelt to stop sprawl and again good city planning.

Now that I think about it, the way you reverse image is you reverse the underlying problems. The only way Winnipeg will be seen as dynamic, beautiful , prosperous city is if it institutes the necessary (and likely unpopular) reforms that will make it one.

[The Diva]

My brother in law, his wife and new baby are moving here from Halifax, and the first question out of the mouths of many people was "why"? He is a Dentist, and he is coming here to go to school to become a periodontist. Some of their initial reactions to touring the city included questioning the decrepit neighborhoods around the HSC (where he will be attending his classes). Halifax, with a smaller population, and not the best economy, has a downtown that is much hipper and a lot more attractive than our hideous downtown. Then again, most cities across this country do not have numerous Aboriginals staggering around downtown scaring people away (not me of course). Our civic leaders over the decades have allowed our downtown and its surrounding areas (Spence, Point Douglas, etc) to become nasty ghettos. As soon as Aboriginals strted coming to our city from reserves about 30 years ago, affordable housing should have been built throughout the city for them; rather, they took what they could get, and we know what the result was. Now, we are desperately trying to play catch up, and creating more opportunites for urban Aboriginals. The Neeginan expansion sounds wonderful. Apparently, there will be some sort of office building built at the north west corner of Main, and designs of this are underway. Once Main Street is filled, and Portage Avenue is rejuvinated, so many things will change.

When I was in Halifax a year ago, walking around downtown, I felt like I did not want to return to Winnipeg because of how it pales in comparison. Throughout downtown Halifax, I found awesome little pubs, and restaurants, etc.

Many parts of the North End need to be razed, and the people relocated.

[drew]

Halifax is beautiful, and the downtown is really cool - but they also have their own troubles with homeless people and begging in their downtown.

When I was there about 6 years ago, the amount of homeless people in the downtown there really surprised me.

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by The Diva

My brother in law, his wife and new baby are moving here from Halifax, and the first question out of the mouths of many people was "why"? He is a Dentist, and he is coming here to go to school to become a periodontist. Some of their initial reactions to touring the city included questioning the decrepit neighborhoods around the HSC (where he will be attending his classes). Halifax, with a smaller population, and not the best economy, has a downtown that is much hipper and a lot more attractive than our hideous downtown. Then again, most cities across this country do not have numerous Aboriginals staggering around downtown scaring people away (not me of course). Our civic leaders over the decades have allowed our downtown and its surrounding areas (Spence, Point Douglas, etc) to become nasty ghettos. As soon as Aboriginals strted coming to our city from reserves about 30 years ago, affordable housing should have been built throughout the city for them; rather, they took what they could get, and we know what the result was. Now, we are desperately trying to play catch up, and creating more opportunites for urban Aboriginals. The Neeginan expansion sounds wonderful. Apparently, there will be some sort of office building built at the north west corner of Main, and designs of this are underway. Once Main Street is filled, and Portage Avenue is rejuvinated, so many things will change.

When I was in Halifax a year ago, walking around downtown, I felt like I did not want to return to Winnipeg because of how it pales in comparison. Throughout downtown Halifax, I found awesome little pubs, and restaurants, etc.

Many parts of the North End need to be razed, and the people relocated.

raze only what is to far gone to fix aka fucked......

whats still good why not get more school programs going like what rb russle is doing with its building construction and get the students out in the real world with hands on experiance get the schools working together on projects and bring people in from the feild to teach the students........ instead of just having them sit in a school and make things that make you feel good but don't realy acomplish anything inless your going to make furnature.... but then you can get thoughs students making custom wood working for people at cost....
ect??

has sujested that to some teachers at techvoc but they said the unions would protest


witch point douglas you talking about the civic ward or the one i call home?
(when i talk pointdouglas i talk the area from redwood to the museam of man and nature, and main st to the red....)

[DizzyEdge]

Anyone have any pics of what the 'north end' looks like, as far as razing, assuming any of these buildings were once jewels, I've seen amazing pics of burnt out husks in detroit restored to unbelievable homes.

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

Anyone have any pics of what the 'north end' looks like, as far as razing, assuming any of these buildings were once jewels, I've seen amazing pics of burnt out husks in detroit restored to unbelievable homes.

rgalston has some..

the north end is a vast area of the city it has every thing from gehto to well kepted homes

manitoba ave for instance (bad rep) has blocks and blocks of slum lords with little pockets of owners who take pride in their homes that have hung on... you find that all over the north end..

the bigest blight in the north end is the slum loards manitoba housing is also part of the problem.........

heres a set with some of the worst homes in the north end... also one nice 1960's home also in the north end but way off in gardencity per say...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/odessa_...7600063757843/

witch reminds me bike ride through winnipeg....... hmm slurpees hmm so home sick

[rgalston]

Originally Posted by The Diva

Many parts of the North End need to be razed, and the people relocated.

Hey Maureen O' Hara, here's a photo of a part of the North End that needed to be razed 45 years ago. Thousands or residents and dozens of businesses were displaced, and it rapidly developed into the city's most dangerous ghetto.


It's at the corner of King Street N. and Dufferin Avenue. Been there lately?

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by rgalston

Hey Maureen O' Hara, here's a photo of a part of the North End that needed to be razed 45 years ago. Thousands or residents and dozens of businesses were displaced, and it rapidly developed into the city's most dangerous slum.


It's at the corner of King Street N. and Dufferin Avenue. Been there lately?

theres a thing on that project in winnipeg modern

would be nice to raze that mess and build student housing......