LAS VEGAS | Boom Project Rundown! 2.0

[future29]

bargain hunters can go to downtown. the strip should be reserved for 4 and 5 stars. theres plenty of space in downtown and south strip to build resorts for the penny pinchers.

[gmcclenon]

Originally Posted by mdiederi

The obnoxious neon clown out front is already 125 feet tall.

Circus Circus is a nickel and dime cow. Sure, MGM makes a profit off of Circus Circus, because they practically got if for free in the Mandalay Resorts deal. A handful of baccarat tables at Bellagio probably have higher revenue than Circus Circus's entire casino drop. I can't find exact figures on Circus Circus's revenue, anybody have the break down on MGM's properties? Seems MGM's nicer properties get two to three times higher average prices for rooms on normal nights than Circus Circus does on its busiest nights, do the math. Even though Circus Circus shows a profit, I think they are losing money compared to what they could do on that property.

I say build cheap stuff south of the airport and make the entire Strip high class.


Las Vegas Wet is already planning all that stuff on 200 acres with several themed "Lands", even indoor snow skiing, SOUTH of the airport on Las Vegas Blvd. The cheap places on the Strip won't be able to compete with some of the theme park stuff that is going to be built to the south. I really think McCarran airport will be the dividing line in the future for Vegas's high budget and low budget visitors. Station Casinos also owns a big chunk of land just south of South Point.

I also heard that the county is seriously considering accelerating development of the Ivanpah airport because McCarran is maxing out much faster than expected. They're almost half way through the Environmental Impact Study already. And of course they are talking of some sort of public transport rail system from Ivanpah International, which will stop at major resorts, obviously hitting the ones south of McCarran first. Las Vegas Blvd already extends all the way to Jean. Also, MGM is developing a major subdivision in Jean.

What is going to happen to Circus Circus is a pure business decision. It generates over $80,000,000 per year in free cash flow. Compared to MGM as a whole, which generates about $800,000,000/yr in cash. $80 mil is not insignificant. So, while the revenues for CC are fairly low, the net margins there are quite high due to the absolute lack of capital expenditures at that site. What MGM will most likely attempt to do is try not to upset the apple cart during the 2 years of planning and 3 years of building PCC II. The last thing it wants to do now is panic all the employees there. After all - $400,000,000 in cash generated from that hideous clown over the next 5 years will put a nice down payment on the new construction. They'll save the clown for last. Maybe like what Echelon is doing with the Ho land. Given the likelihood that the government of the UAE is putting up the money behind this massive project, they will most likely ultimately not allow CC to exist in any form. Would not quite fit in with what I'm sure they are envisioning as being quite Dubai-esque. IMNSHO

[Superfish]

MGM Deal for Land May Inspire Building

-It says the main reason for seeking partners is to get the capital, and if that happens, construction can stat before CityCenter is finished.

http://www.lvrj.com/business/7116856.html


Project CityCenter cost has been increased to $7.4 Billion due the increases the overall project size.

http://www.lvrj.com/business/7132401.html

On semi related note Echelon is said to be $4.4 Billion now. Wouldn't be surprised in a few years to see the Sahara MGM project at $10 billion even. Rising costs?

The day we see a pedestrian bridge system finally built at Sahara intersection... oh man. the joy seeing the strip come full circle.

[Superfish]

At least the CircusCircus has some historical value. This NEW Tropicana expansion however is an atrocity.

[mdiederi]

Shot this from way down south by the entrance to the Four Seasons at Mandalay Bay. You can see that the upper floors of Trump will have a spectacular view of the entire south end of the Strip.

[mdiederi]

Originally Posted by Superfish

At least the CircusCircus has some historical value. This NEW Tropicana expansion however is an atrocity.

Yikes.

Forget where I read it, but one of the columns in the press recently said they thought they might run into some problems putting that project together.

[mttbox]

[QUOTE=mdiederi;2784147]You can see that the upper floors of Trump will have a spectacular view of the entire south end of the Strip.

trumps north view will be nice too...well, will be nice soon with all the big project on the north end.

[drobar]

Yes! I am not against a resort for a more frugal type of clientelle, I am against a resort that has not aesthetic value whatsoever. They can keep their Circus Circus, just do something with it that will not scream "Tacky Vegas". It is painful to my eyes to see a beautiful building like "Sky" right next to the pink pile of dung that is Circus Circus.

Originally Posted by vegasrain84

I really think Circus Circus needs a good implosion job.. Cash cow or not.. It's a hideous Pink Nightmare! MGM should just cut its losses, build a non-themed resort rivaling CityCenter's size, but keep it affordable so that it still appeals to the middle income folks. For that matter, I think they should get rid of Excalibur, and Monte Carlo. Monte Carlo should go because it looks like a prison, and because it would allow for an expansion of CityCenter.. Excalibur because it looks like something out of disney world, only more tacky.. But first and foremost, that Pink Nightmare has got to go..

[drobar]

OMG! What is that? That is worse than "Blue Aladdin"!

Originally Posted by Superfish

At least the CircusCircus has some historical value. This NEW Tropicana expansion however is an atrocity.

[MrV]

Originally Posted by mdiederi

Yikes.

Forget where I read it, but one of the columns in the press recently said they thought they might run into some problems putting that project together.

I think I read somewhere (I think it was via a link on the Las Vegas Death Watch website, but I'm not sure) that they might not be able to do it as they had planned when they made this rendering (business as (almost) usual in the resort during renovations and keeping the two current towers), and that there new plan might consist of getting rid of one tower, laying off people (I guess during construction), probably because of a complete or partial closing of the resort. It would'nt surprise me if they eventually decide to implode the whole thing, nor would it surprise me if nothing significant happens the next 5 years or so with the property, especially if Circus Circus and/or Frontier closes within the next couple of years and more mid-market tourists need a new 'home'.

It generates over $80,000,000 per year in free cash flow. Compared to MGM as a whole, which generates about $800,000,000/yr in cash. $80 mil is not insignificant. So, while the revenues for CC are fairly low, the net margins there are quite high due to the absolute lack of capital expenditures at that site.

Maybe I misinterpretet your calculations/numbers, but if a resort that requires minimal investments, but still generates 10% of your cash flow, what does it say about the performance of the other 9(?) MGM resorts on the strip? 10% Would be pretty significant especially if you have as many resorts as MGM. Or dit you mean the MGM Grand?

If MGM thinks or, (more probably) calculates and forecasts that they can make more money out of their acres by replacing Circus Circus, then they'll do so, but for us to make any kind of reasonable guess, we will have to wait for more information on their plans with the aquired land and/or new rumours/inside information. I personally can't imagine that MGM expects/plans Circus Circus in its current form to last competitive for more then 5 to 10 years, but I might be completly wrong and they probably know a bit more about this business then I do.

I do agree with you that it is very likely that they will wait with any signigicant changes to Circus Circus after they have finished,or are well on their way developing their newly aquired parts plus probably the rv park and motel.

Maybe like what Echelon is doing with the Ho land.

Echelon in its current form does not offer any residential program, does it? Will they use the Ho land for hotel condo's or whatever kind of residence/hotel combination they can think of, or will they use it to expand the resort and/or add a boutique hotel?

[jazfingr]

In all fairness concerning the Trop design, this is obviously a quick, first rendering showing how the property can hold the extra towers. I sincerely hope and believe that it could finally morph into a good looking resort.

I think 10,000+ rooms is a little extreme for 40 acres.

I love the idea that it will still be the Trop and be a mid-roller place.

Did you guys see my new Trop page

My two cents.

[Taurus702B]

Originally Posted by VegasMatt

I’m not sure why some seem to think MGM cares if there is a pink monstrosity next to their
competitor’s luxury resort. MGM’s Gem is south strip. If I was MGM, I’d build a fifty foot clown
on Circus Circus to steer the higher cliental away from Echelon place towards CityCenter.
Circus Circus is MGM’s Walmart Brand and it’s making lots of money.
I wouldn’t wager money on a classy resort replacing too soon.

Besides, what fun would Vegas be if it lost all its tacky grandeur.


Side Note: The Clown’s giant pink ass would be facing Echelon’s luxury suites

Hell yeah.

[Taurus702B]

Originally Posted by vegasrain84

I really think Circus Circus needs a good implosion job.. Cash cow or not.. It's a hideous Pink Nightmare! MGM should just cut its losses, build a non-themed resort rivaling CityCenter's size, but keep it affordable so that it still appeals to the middle income folks. For that matter, I think they should get rid of Excalibur, and Monte Carlo. Monte Carlo should go because it looks like a prison, and because it would allow for an expansion of CityCenter.. Excalibur because it looks like something out of disney world, only more tacky.. But first and foremost, that Pink Nightmare has got to go..

They can't just remove the Monte Carlo because it is ugly. I really don't like this new classy Vegas too much. I remember I went to the Venetian and asked if they have any arcades and they don't have ANY at all. If companies keep building these new resorts for the high-class/wealthy people then there will be nothing much for the average joe left. I miss Wet N' Wild!

[vegasrain84]

Originally Posted by Taurus702B

They can't just remove the Monte Carlo because it is ugly. I really don't like this new classy Vegas too much. I remember I went to the Venetian and asked if they have any arcades and they don't have ANY at all. If companies keep building these new resorts for the high-class/wealthy people then there will be nothing much for the average joe left. I miss Wet N' Wild!

Sure they can! Its Vegas! They got rid of Stardust and it was only 4 years older than Monte Carlo. They got rid of the Desert Inn, and the newer towers were only a few years old.. Look at all the Resorts that have been imploded over the last 10 or 15 years.. If there is a market for new classy resorts, then they will build it, and they will come. When they stop coming, then they will have to rethink their plans, but until then, there's no reason to stop progress..

[Patrick]

Nonono, I dont think Monte Carlo will be leaving anytime soon. I dont really have a problem with its towers.

I'm glad they are keeping the original Tropicana Towers, good call.

[philip]

Monte Carlo is my favorite moderate resort. The rate is affordable, the swimming pools are amazing (many pools with a lazy river and a wave pool!), and the interior still looks great. Besides, the hotel just received a AAA 4-diamond rating, I think (and I hope) it will stay for a while.

I don't know how you guys calculate the profit at Circus Circus. But the last time I went there, the place is VERY crowded, and that includes the Adventure Dome, the Circus show area, and the casino floor. The place is very popular among Latinos because they are budget travelers and they have lots of kids who love to spend the whole day at the dome. If this place is not generating profit, then I don't know what is.

The new Tropicana looks more like a hotel need to be imploded, not to be built. The old towers look, well old. The building on the right looks oh so tacky, the building in the back looks like Aladdin, the building on the far left looks like an old office building, the building on the near left looks the best however it does not fit in with the others. It's like the face of Michael Jackson, the more they try to fix it, the worse it gets.

[Patrick]

Originally Posted by VegasBound

That's what they said about the Eiffel Tower after it was first built.

Yes, but the Eiffel Tower was originally Temporary, and it wasnt shaped like a ding-dong.

[Patrick]

New Panorama Towers Promo Video
Features New Renderings of Tower III and is pretty cool.
http://www.panoramatowers.com/volume...avideoweb.html

4275 Dean Martin Still Alive
Yeah, New but boreish renderings:
http://www.rockertower.com/

[mdiederi]

4275 Dean Martin Still Alive

They say it will have "robotic parking".

Hey, wait a minute, isn't that the same land where they're trying to pitch this West Strip concept?

[mdiederi]

Originally Posted by StatenIslander237

Yay! Someone feels the same way as me about Barbary Coast....I say knock it down and put some kind of pedestrian plaza there. the last thing that space needs is another narrow, ridiculous development.

Here's another concept render for that lot.