[Halifax] RBC Waterside Centre | 37 m | 9 fl | Completed

[sdm]

Armour appeal dates up in the air

By MICHAEL LIGHTSTONE and AMY SMITH Staff Reporters
Sat. Nov 8 - 5:34 AM


It's unclear when Armour Group's appeal of a Halifax planning decision on the developer's Waterside Centre proposal will be heard. (PETER PARSONS / Staff/ File)




Nova Scotia recently streamlined its process governing appeals of municipal planning decisions.

But a scheduling conflict involving the Armour Group’s Waterside Centre proposal for downtown Halifax means tentative appeal dates the province’s Utility and Review Board had suggested are now up in the air, a board spokesman said Friday.

The developer is appealing Halifax regional council’s decision last month that killed its commercial project. Board executive director Paul Allen said a letter from city hall asks that an early public meeting, proposed for Nov. 18 to deal with any preliminary issues, be moved to a later date. If the parties agree the main appeal hearing may begin later, that session won’t begin as tentatively scheduled.

"The full public hearing is currently scheduled to start on . . . Jan. 6," Mr. Allen told The Chronicle Herald. "However, we have a request to change the dates from Halifax Regional Municipality which we will have to consider."

According to a letter from city lawyer Karen Brown, dated Friday, she’s available for a preliminary hearing on Nov. 20, 24 or 26.

"It will be my intention at the preliminary hearing to request new dates for the filing of evidence and for the hearing of this appeal," she said. "The reasons will include that the timeline falls within the holiday season, which will make it difficult to prepare given that (municipal) staff have scheduled vacations."

Halifax council rejected the developer’s proposal in a 9-9 vote on Oct. 21, despite a recommendation from municipal staff that the project should go ahead.

Waterside Centre was designed to occupy most of the city block bordered by Upper Water, Duke and Hollis streets in the Historic Properties district.


Mayor Peter Kelly said Friday he spoke with Armour Group chairman Ben McCrea twice last week and "encouraged him to appeal" council’s decision.

The Armour Group doesn’t want any third parties, including the government, to intervene when it appeals council’s rejection of its proposal, Mr. McCrea said recently, because the dispute is between his firm and the city.

Premier Rodney MacDonald said the province will give consideration to Mr. McCrea’s position, but he suspects other groups will also want to intervene.

"I am not about to let opportunities in the downtown go by the wayside," Mr. MacDonald said in an interview.

"That means standing up for downtown development. It’s not just about one project. For us, this is about the entire downtown core and really showcasing that as a capital city that Halifax needs to focus both on the past and on the future."

( mlightstone@herald.ca)

( asmith@herald.ca)

[sdm]

Ok so what happend to the streamlined process? Now the city wants to delay due to vacations?

Noticed that Kelly says to appeal to the developer and that rodney believes other parties will try and become apart of this appeal, wonder who that is?

[hfx_chris]

Originally Posted by Empire

If you don't think shells of buildings from the past are worthy of picture taking then I was wondering what you thought was?

Working heritage buildings from our past. When you drive by the NFB wall, what do you see? You see boarded up windows, dirty walls, posters taped all over it at street level and homeless people sleeping on the steps. If that was an occupied, working building, you wouldn't see any of that. The owner would take greater care of the exterior, there would be less incentive for homeless folks to camp out in the doorway, and there would be an actual building with offices and people behind the windows.
The fact that you think the NFB wall is something tourists are flocking to take pictures of is laughable. It's a disgusting run down boarded up wall. That's it.

How much of a tax generator do you think the NFB wall on Barrington is for the local economy?

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by hfx_chris

Working heritage buildings from our past. When you drive by the NFB wall, what do you see? You see boarded up windows, dirty walls, posters taped all over it at street level and homeless people sleeping on the steps. If that was an occupied, working building, you wouldn't see any of that. The owner would take greater care of the exterior, there would be less incentive for homeless folks to camp out in the doorway, and there would be an actual building with offices and people behind the windows.
The fact that you think the NFB wall is something tourists are flocking to take pictures of is laughable. It's a disgusting run down boarded up wall. That's it.

How much of a tax generator do you think the NFB wall on Barrington is for the local economy?

That trio of buildings -- the Khyber, NFB, and City Club -- are a huge drag on Barrington and really add nothing to the street. They are dark, dirty, depressing and foreboding presences on that block. Interestingly, even though the HT decries "facadism" as a Disneyfication exercise, that is exactly what they fought for with the NFB building, and that's what we now have -- a mostly worthless facade.

But unfortunately HRM by Design will enshrine them forever and prevent that block from ever being fully developed. Look at the fawning praise for them in the HbD documents:

The Khyber:

Built for the Church of England Institute in 1888, this building is one of the trio of free-standing, 19th century, institutional buildings that contribute strongly to the late Victorian architectural ambience of this part of the Historic District.

It was designed by architect Henry F. Busch, who also designed many other buildings in Halifax including the Halifax Academy and the Public Gardens Bandstand. Busch was known as the province’s best exponent of the Second Empire style but here, on the Church of England Institute, he chose to work in a highly decorated Gothic mode, retaining only the Second Empire’s trademark mansard roof.

Built of brick, the building’s most prominent feature is an ornate corner oriel window connected to a single engaged column below and a turreted spire above. Windows are designed in a variety of arched forms and trimmed with elaborate sandstone caps with prominent keystones.

The entrance is set in a slightly projecting centre bay that rises up through the eaves and culminates in a steeply pitched Gothic dormer. Other dormers accent the roofline both on the front and on the south side.

Horizontal articulation is provided by a solid sandstone foundation, a dentiled string course at first floor height, and a prominent, bracketed cornice at the eaves.

The old institute is one of the more intact historic buildings on Barrington Street, having suffered little if any alteration to its exterior. It is owned by Halifax Regional Municipality and has recently undergone a major roof strengthening to accommodate increased snow loads resulting from the adjacent Neptune expansion, as well as a major interior re-fit to meet fire codes and building standards for public use. It is currently leased to the Khyber Arts Society, a community arts group. It also houses the office of the Heritage Trust of Nova Scotia.


To me, Gothic architecture is among the ugliest and most threatening forms there is. But this is old, so it's automatically good. Plus, the HT has offices there, so you know they are going to love it.


Next up, the City Club:

This building is one of the oldest buildings on downtown Barrington Street, dating back to 1821,when it was constructed as a Georgian mansion for the Honourable Simon Bradstreet Robie, who held several high offices including Solicitor General and Member of the Legislative Council.

The City Club, a fashionable retreat for young men from the city’s upper classes, took the mansion over in 1858. In 1888, the northern part of the Robie Estate was sold to the Church England for construction of the Church of England Institute (1588 Barrington) and, in 1891, the southern portion was sold for construction of the St. Mary’s Young Men’s Total Abstinence and Benevolent Society building (1572 Barrington). In the same year, 1891, the facade of the old Robie/City Club mansion was transformed into the building we see today.

Hmmm... so facadism was used even back in Victorian times. Guess the HT didn't want us to know that. But I digress:

Designed by architect J.C. Dumaresq, the building is comparable in style to the St. Mary’s Glebe House (1508 Barrington), which he also designed in the same year.

Constructed of brick and sandstone, it has a mansard roof and two prominent projecting bays that rise to connect with large roof dormers. The entrance is set between the bays, under a sturdy porch. Windows are arched and set in the facade in pairs under sandstone hoods with prominent keystones.

The facade is lavishly ornamented with fancy brickwork belt courses and elaborate stone window hoods and window sills. Like those on the St. Mary’s Glebe House, the dormers are of painted wood, which provides an interesting contrast with the darker brick surfaces of the main walls.

The City Club was acquired by the City of Halifax in the early 1990s, following the fire which heavily damaged the adjacent NFB building. In 1996, it was incorporated into the expanded Neptune Theatre, to which it is now connected, and is now enjoying new life as the home of the Neptune
Theatre School.


At least this building is less threatening-looking than its neighbors, and it is being used, though not to any appreciable extent and it does not contribute in any way to the commercial nature of the street.

But let's move on to the NFB facade:

This is the facade of the St. Mary’s Young Men’s Total Abstinence and Benevolent Society building, one of several church related institutional buildings built on this part of Barrington Street in the late 1880s/early 1890s (i.e., the City Club and Church of England Institute buildings next door, and the St. Mary’s Glebe a block away). The architect was J.C. Dumaresq, who also designed the City Club and the St. Mary’s Glebe in the same year.

In 1907 (at the same time that the adjacent Brander Morris building was constructed), the Benevolent Society building became the Nickle Theatre, Halifax’s first permanent movie house. It continued to be a movie theatre, changing hands several times (the Imperial Theatre, 1941 and, later, the Family Theatre) until it was occupied by the National Film Board.

The building was heavily damaged by fire in the early 1990s, leaving only the shell. At present, the property is the subject of an agreement between the property owner and HRM whereby the municipality has contributed funds to stabilize the facade and the owner has forfeited the right to demolish or alter it. The future use of the facade and the site, however, is an open question.


In other words, the owner can't do anything with it, and there is no use for it. So we are going to be stuck with an ugly black hole of a facade for decades to come. That's heritage protection for you.

The best thing that could happen to the NFB site would be for someone to go berserk on a Cat D7 and knock the thing down.

[sdm]

Anyone know who owns the the Khyber, NFB, and City Club buildings?

I thought the city own at least one of them?

[hfx_chris]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

That trio of buildings -- the Khyber, NFB, and City Club -- are a huge drag on Barrington and really add nothing to the street. They are dark, dirty, depressing and foreboding presences on that block.

But at least they're working buildings, significantly better than a boarded up wall with an empty lot behind it.

To me, Gothic architecture is among the ugliest and most threatening forms there is. But this is old, so it's automatically good.

Thankfully your personal opinion on architecture is just that, your opinion. I like the gothic style myself, and I specifically like the Khyber building.

Originally Posted by sdm

Anyone know who owns the the Khyber, NFB, and City Club buildings?

I thought the city own at least one of them?

The city owns the Khyber building, and the City Club is owned by Neptune Theatre, I do believe.

[Barrington south]

I think I remember a couple of years ago, that the NFB building was sold to the owners of The Argyle, Seven wine bar, Opa and Mosaic. They are a couple of Greek buisness men. I have met the wife of one of them, a cardiologist, and she was a very nice woman.

[Barrington south]

"To me, Gothic architecture is among the ugliest" Do you you even consider buildings like the british parliament buildings to be ugly? personally I would kill for something of that magnitude and presence in Halifax

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by hfx_chris

But at least they're working buildings, significantly better than a boarded up wall with an empty lot behind it.

The only thing working about the NFB are the bums and winos asking for spare change on the steps. It's a facade, Chris -- there *is* no building.

Thankfully your personal opinion on architecture is just that, your opinion. I like the gothic style myself, and I specifically like the Khyber building.

That's fine. I dislike it. The style may work on larger, more impressive buildings, but on ones of this scale I find it more "haunted house"-like than anything.

[hfx_chris]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

The only thing working about the NFB are the bums and winos asking for spare change on the steps. It's a facade, Chris -- there *is* no building.

Which is exactly what I keep saying, which is also why I keep referring to the NFB wall as "a boarded up wall with an empty lot behind it."
I think you may have been misinterpreting me somewhere. I was originally responding to a comment made by Empire in which he stated that the NFB wall was something worthy of taking photographs of, suggesting it to be equal to the Imperial Oil building. He asked "If you don't think shells of buildings from the past are worthy of picture taking then I was wondering what you thought was?" - to which I responded by saying that a working heritage building is much more photo worthy in my opinion than the NFB wall, which I stated earlier is nothing more than a boarded up wall with homeless people on the doorstep fronting an empty lot. Where you got the idea that I was somehow under the impression the NFB wall was a working building, or is somehow worthy of admiration is beyond me, as I said I believe you misinterpreted me, or confused me for Empire or something...

That's fine. I dislike it. The style may work on larger, more impressive buildings, but on ones of this scale I find it more "haunted house"-like than anything.

Maybe that's what I like about the Khyber building.. if I owned that one, I would do some pretty awesome things to the exterior at halloween

[someone123]

I think many people like the Khyber and City Club buildings. I don't have a problem with them really, although I agree that a large commercial building would be better for that block. The prospect of moving those buildings is an interesting one, but something I don't think the city would be able to handle based on how inept it is.

I am still disappointed with the lack of progress on Barrington. A few years ago there were a number of renovation projects. This should have continued but instead we have seen things stall because of a total lack of leadership. Who knows how council will handle tax incentives on Barrington, or streetscape improvements, or the redevelopment of the Roy Building..? Even if council had a "hands off" policy regarding the downtown the situation would be much better, but the constant meddling and government involvement coupled with total lack of direction is crippling.

The state of Barrington is roughly similar to what you'd find in some small Midwestern city where all the jobs are gone and people are leaving. Meanwhile, the downtown in Halifax has record low vacancies, the city's economy is doing well, and it is still a mess simply because of how awfully it is being managed.

It really annoys me how Halifax, more than I think any other city I've been to, performs so poorly relative to its potential.

[Jonovision]

I really like those buildings on Barrington. There was a fourth I believe as well that was even nicer then the Kyber. Which by the way I really like. Sure it's not great for the retail aspect of the city, but it is unique and worth preserving. I knew the facade of the NFB building was owned by the Argyle. I thought I heard some rumours of the owners wanting to redevelop the facade and the Argyle with a few floors of condos on top? It might have just been a rumour though. I would love to see that happen. I don't think the facade is unusable and could make for something really interesting. Perhaps that quality blend of old and new that we are looking for in this city.

Don't forget though, this thread is about the Waterside. Maybe we should start a heritage rant thread in the urban design section.

[someone123]

Yes, I also heard about the NFB plans.. apparently there was some federal program for heritage restoration that the owner at the time (I don't know if the current owner is the same one or not) was trying to take advantage of that has since been cut. Unfortunately, these "moving targets" are a common theme in the downtown area and they really put a damper on development.

Re: thread topic, I don't mind if this is interleaved with Waterside Centre talk. It's pretty closely related, but people can of course make other threads whenever and if more relevant ones exist then I think discussion will naturally migrate over to those.

[Dmajackson]

Somewhat back on topic I am surprised at the government for not realising that there are other Class 'A' office projects around with more possible to convert. I've been checking up on some projects lately and not only does International Place have some proposed, a government funded project, Queen's Landing has 8 floors of Class A office proposed. Of course they could also convert either Trinity or Roy Building to some if not completely office if they wanted to.

EDIT: the amount of Class A office space in Queen's Landing is estimated to be 120'000 sq ft

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Bedford_DJ

EDIT: the amount of Class A office space in Queen's Landing is estimated to be 120'000 sq ft

Something interesting to note is that the provincial government recently funded a new building to replace the BioScience building on the waterfront. That was one key piece of the Queen's Landing proposal.

I would guess that there are about 1 million square feet of office space proposed for the downtown. The bigger issue is that there are zero square feet of office space under construction.

[spaustin]

Rodney has a little blurb in yesterday's paper. Nothing new in it, except a cheap shot at the NDP.


Waterside Centre must go ahead

By PREMIER RODNEY MACDONALD Progressive Conservative Party
Mon. Nov 10 - 5:58 AM


Halifax is a beautiful city, steeped in tradition and with a long and storied history. Nova Scotians are right to treasure that history, but it is a mistake to try to freeze the city in time.

Development is essential for Halifax Regional Municipality to grow, prosper and fulfil its great potential. In these times of economic uncertainty, Halifax must move forward, not step back. That’s why I spoke out against the decision to reject the proposed Waterside Centre at Historic Properties.

It’s a decision that sends a message to the business community that Halifax is not open for business. It tells our young people that it’s OK to head down the road to build their lives because we aren’t interested in attracting the businesses, careers and salaries that will allow them to stay in Nova Scotia.

There isn’t enough Class A office space in the downtown area to accommodate companies that want to establish themselves in Halifax. We have a real opportunity to establish the city as a financial services centre that will bring good, high-paying jobs to Nova Scotia. But it’s an opportunity I fear will slip away if the NDP, now known as the No Development Please party, has its way.

The companies want to come, but they don’t want to be isolated from the downtown. They need to be part of a vibrant community with similar businesses.

If we don’t work with businesses and remove the obstacles that keep them from locating in Nova Scotia, they will surely go somewhere else. We are competing with markets around North America and beyond. Those markets understand the value of streamlining the process of getting things built and welcoming opportunity. They open the door to development.

This development needs to move forward. It will bring significant employment for trades. It would encourage businesses to move to Halifax, bringing meaningful jobs, and it would broaden the tax base.

If Waterside Centre does not move ahead, everyone loses. The developer can’t build and the heritage sites will be torn down. That situation is simply unacceptable. The only way to save the heritage buildings is to incorporate them into a modern, dynamic city.

We have the opportunity now to build on our proud history and build a city and province that will prosper.

(rmacdonald@herald.ca)

[Dmajackson]

Well thaat was expected to happen sometime.

Can someone please tell Rodney that if they province wants more development downtown they should of course make it easier somehow but most importantly they have to push ahead with their own projects. Both the Salters Block and Queens Landing have been delayed for unknown reasons to me for years when both would help with almost all aspects of downtown living.

You can't expect people to develop downtown if your own projects are ignored.

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by spaustin

Rodney has a little blurb in yesterday's paper. Nothing new in it, except a cheap shot at the NDP.


Waterside Centre must go ahead

By PREMIER RODNEY MACDONALD Progressive Conservative Party
Mon. Nov 10 - 5:58 AM


Halifax is a beautiful city, steeped in tradition and with a long and storied history. Nova Scotians are right to treasure that history, but it is a mistake to try to freeze the city in time.

Development is essential for Halifax Regional Municipality to grow, prosper and fulfil its great potential. In these times of economic uncertainty, Halifax must move forward, not step back. That’s why I spoke out against the decision to reject the proposed Waterside Centre at Historic Properties.

It’s a decision that sends a message to the business community that Halifax is not open for business. It tells our young people that it’s OK to head down the road to build their lives because we aren’t interested in attracting the businesses, careers and salaries that will allow them to stay in Nova Scotia.

There isn’t enough Class A office space in the downtown area to accommodate companies that want to establish themselves in Halifax. We have a real opportunity to establish the city as a financial services centre that will bring good, high-paying jobs to Nova Scotia. But it’s an opportunity I fear will slip away if the NDP, now known as the No Development Please party, has its way.

The companies want to come, but they don’t want to be isolated from the downtown. They need to be part of a vibrant community with similar businesses.

If we don’t work with businesses and remove the obstacles that keep them from locating in Nova Scotia, they will surely go somewhere else. We are competing with markets around North America and beyond. Those markets understand the value of streamlining the process of getting things built and welcoming opportunity. They open the door to development.

This development needs to move forward. It will bring significant employment for trades. It would encourage businesses to move to Halifax, bringing meaningful jobs, and it would broaden the tax base.

If Waterside Centre does not move ahead, everyone loses. The developer can’t build and the heritage sites will be torn down. That situation is simply unacceptable. The only way to save the heritage buildings is to incorporate them into a modern, dynamic city.

We have the opportunity now to build on our proud history and build a city and province that will prosper.

(rmacdonald@herald.ca)

Well said Mr Premier! and nice swipe at the NDP.... I like it.

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by Bedford_DJ

Well thaat was expected to happen sometime.

Can someone please tell Rodney that if they province wants more development downtown they should of course make it easier somehow but most importantly they have to push ahead with their own projects. Both the Salters Block and Queens Landing have been delayed for unknown reasons to me for years when both would help with almost all aspects of downtown living.

You can't expect people to develop downtown if your own projects are ignored.

What does the provincial government have to do with these projects. Salters Gate has been approved and is suppose to start this spring and Queens Landing is waiting for federal funding.

[Dmajackson]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

What does the provincial goverment have to do with these projects. Salters Gate has been approved and is suppose to start this spring and Queens Landing is waiting for federal funding.

They are both developed by the WDCL which is a provincial government run company.