[Halifax] The Cunard (1475 Lower Water) | 57 m | 19 fl | U/C

[Jonovision]

I've not yet seen the revised designs for this but it has started. There was a pile driver on site when I drove by earlier this week and saw an announcement on DevelopNS facebook page.

[someone123]

This is visible on the Pier 21 webcam: https://www.novascotiawebcams.com/en/webcams/pier-21/

[someone123]

Source

[kph06]

Crane base is in place now.

[someone123]

Source

[kph06]

This crane is half up.

[someone123]

I believe these are slightly different from what was posted before:




Source

Maybe that second one shows a slightly different ground floor treatment along Lower Water Street?

In the first rendering, the 2 developments seem to play off each other nicely, and create a better-defined space than what's there now. It's traditionally been popular to call for big open waterfront green spaces (e.g. turn all of the Cunard lot into a park) but I'm not even sure that's ideal from a public space perspective. The art gallery and nearby expanded boardwalk will offer more outdoor space. Seems like the waterfront is changing a lot now after many years with little change (after Bishop's Landing but before Queen's Marque).

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by someone123

... In the first rendering, the 2 developments seem to play off each other nicely, and create a better-defined space than what's there now...

I would agree - I think the scale of the outdoor space is decent. After seeing some of the details at Queen's Marque though, I feel like the quality of the space is a little lacking (or not yet developed?). Looks like a hardscaped plaza with no relief/interest... a few small trees and planters separating the plaza from the boardwalk. Not very interactive/interesting, in my opinion, but may be flexible in terms of hosting events (about which the residents will make noise complaints).

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

Not very interactive/interesting, in my opinion, but may be flexible in terms of hosting events (about which the residents will make noise complaints).

This is a very good point. As much as I like to see development happen on the waterfront, I wish there had been more large spaces left in which they could hold public events, like concerts, ribfest, etc. With a lot of the spaces being converted to residential, I fear that enjoyment of the waterfront will morph to being only open to small, quieter events (re: noise complaints).

While most often change is good, this feels like what has been a busy vibrant waterfront eventually being limited in its usage due to the desire to fill it with condos. Hopefully I'm wrong.

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

This is a very good point. As much as I like to see development happen on the waterfront, I wish there had been more large spaces left in which they could hold public events, like concerts, ribfest, etc. With a lot of the spaces being converted to residential, I fear that enjoyment of the waterfront will morph to being only open to small, quieter events (re: noise complaints).

While most often change is good, this feels like what has been a busy vibrant waterfront eventually being limited in its usage due to the desire to fill it with condos. Hopefully I'm wrong.

The trick, I think, is that for it to serve the city best, it has to encourage day-to-day use for residents as well as special events use. The waterfront/harbour is an important psychological part of the city and we should seek opportunities to enhance its importance.

[someone123]

Maybe events will shift toward the seaport area, or change a bit in character so they are interspersed more around these smaller outdoor spaces (which are actually still pretty large).

I interpreted the empty public space in the rendering as a kind of blank canvas. Maybe some of that space will be used by the businesses. Not sure what part of it will be up to Southwest and what will be managed by Develop NS but I'd imagine Develop NS kept some control over it as part of the deal.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Sure, it may be just fine, though I believe part of the Seaport area, where the farmers' market was located, is being converted to office space. The other end near the Cunard Centre might be able to host events, and then there's the Alderney Landing area on the Dartmouth side.

I agree that the layout of the waterfront area should encourage day-to-day use as well as special events, but I also recognize the potential for conflict and complaints when a space that was mostly open to the public becomes chipped away by private residences. Kinda like the people who build a house next to a pig farm, and then petition to have the farm shut down because they don't like the smell of pig poop. An extreme example, I suppose...

Maybe it won't be much of a loss, as these events could just move elsewhere (like Dartmouth Crossing or some suburban mall parking lot?), but it always felt like being in a special part of Halifax when you could enjoy a special event while looking over the harbour.

Not a big deal, though, as change will always continue to occur. Fifty or sixty years ago, it was still a working waterfront with a lot of industrial and marine-based businesses operating - not a place to go for an evening stroll. Forty years ago it was a stripped out desolate area dominated by surface parking and empty lots. Today it is much better and continuing to evolve, though I still think it's important to recognize the changes.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

This is a very good point. As much as I like to see development happen on the waterfront, I wish there had been more large spaces left in which they could hold public events, like concerts, ribfest, etc. With a lot of the spaces being converted to residential, I fear that enjoyment of the waterfront will morph to being only open to small, quieter events (re: noise complaints).

While most often change is good, this feels like what has been a busy vibrant waterfront eventually being limited in its usage due to the desire to fill it with condos. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Well, you can't have it both ways. The owners of million-dollar harborfront condos do not want to put up with the noise of a jazz festival or a ribfest in their front yard. And really, why do those events need to be there anyway? Access to the waterfront and DT generally is becoming more and more difficult, people who do not live DT already generally are made to feel unwelcome if they try to go there, and there are plenty of unused open spaces elsewhere for such uses, such as the Common.

[IanWatson]

I kind of wonder if the giant new wharf being built by the canteen huts is intended to fill some of that role. It doesn’t look suitable for a concert but it does seem like it could host a Ribfest.

[Summerville]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Well, you can't have it both ways. The owners of million-dollar harborfront condos do not want to put up with the noise of a jazz festival or a ribfest in their front yard. And really, why do those events need to be there anyway? Access to the waterfront and DT generally is becoming more and more difficult, people who do not live DT already generally are made to feel unwelcome if they try to go there, and there are plenty of unused open spaces elsewhere for such uses, such as the Common.

The restrictive covenants of Bishops Landing condos explicitly state that the owners have to put up with the nightlife of waterfront.

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by Summerville

The restrictive covenants of Bishops Landing condos explicitly state that the owners have to put up with the nightlife of waterfront.

That would be an interesting covenant to read. Restrictive covenants are very tricky things. Is it definitely a covenant (and referred to as such), or could it perhaps be a requirement included in the condominium bylaws?

[Summerville]

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

That would be an interesting covenant to read. Restrictive covenants are very tricky things. Is it definitely a covenant (and referred to as such), or could it perhaps be a requirement included in the condominium bylaws?

My bad,...it was in the original Agreement of Purchase and sale which was incorporated into the Condo documents....

"Each Residential Owner acknowledges that the property includes both residential and commercial components, and that the Residential Unit is part of a vibrant mixed-use community surrounded by active public space with inherent inner-city levels of noise, odour or traffic."


And one of the original agreements between southwest and WDCL contemplated the helipad construction...which is also on title

[Keith P.]

It would be an easy argument for a lawyer to make that a large festival parachuted in adjacent to my million-dollar condo is not the same as "inherent inner-city levels of noise, odour or traffic". It is anything but inherent.

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

It would be an easy argument for a lawyer to make that a large festival parachuted in adjacent to my million-dollar condo is not the same as "inherent inner-city levels of noise, odour or traffic". It is anything but inherent.

I'm not so sure the argument would be that easy, but putting that aside, what remedy would you expect to get?

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

I'm not so sure the argument would be that easy, but putting that aside, what remedy would you expect to get?