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  #7101  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2019, 6:57 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
Twice the size and three of the teams are hockey.
I think there is some truth to the idea that CMA population numbers alone don't tell the full story.

The two cities seem to have pretty similar regional level amenities. For example they both have full-sized IKEAs and they both have similarly busy airports. For the most part I think if a regional-level attraction is viable in Winnipeg, it's reasonable to think it could work in Halifax.

The settlement pattern in NS is very different than in Manitoba. NS has a lot more scattered towns and exurbs and the CMA statistics don't capture this very well. West Hants for example is something like 45%+ commuters. Meanwhile the eastern part of HRM is included because it's in one big census division but it isn't really part of the metro area. The boundaries only approximately represent the true metro area and the population total doesn't fully capture the market size of the area.

The "real" Halifax metro or economic region is something like a circle extending out to about Windsor, Shubenacadie, Musquodoboit Harbour, and Chester. I'd guess this area has something like 550,000 people in it, and is not much larger than the current HRM. There's an extended area that encompasses the clusters of towns around Lunenburg/Bridgewater, Truro, and Kentville. This is what I'd consider "Central Nova Scotia". This isn't so much a commutershed but people in this area can easily get to Halifax for special events like a sports game, shopping, or appointments.
     
     
  #7102  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2019, 7:05 PM
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Indeed, it takes a lot more than looking at population numbers on wikipedia and average attendance numbers to try and draw comparisons between two different places. At the end of the day Winnipeg has been able to support both an NHL team in the short-term and a CFL team in the long-term, whereas Halifax hasn't had a chance, yet, to support a larger-scale professional team for any length of time. Halifax does support their CPL team a bit more than Winnipeg, though, with the very small sample size we have so far.
     
     
  #7103  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2019, 7:21 PM
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Should we dare bring up Ottawa next?

Cough...Cough Sens attendance 11,600. We could put over 11,000 in the Scotiabank Centre with standing room every night for an NHL team.

Oh and their pro soccer team folded...
     
     
  #7104  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2019, 7:26 PM
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Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
I think there is some truth to the idea that CMA population numbers alone don't tell the full story.
Yeah I did this map last night based on latest population estimates, showing 750,000 people at max distance of 125 km from Halifax or roughly 1 hour and 30 min maximum drive to the Halifax area.

     
     
  #7105  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2019, 8:11 PM
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Support still growing despite the misnomer of calling it an exclusively CFL stadium. LeBlanc promises no more timelines from him, as he stated from what the Redblacks owners told him, "it'll get done when it gets done"

Last edited by elly63; Dec 17, 2019 at 4:06 AM.
     
     
  #7106  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2019, 10:19 PM
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Should we dare bring up Ottawa next?

Cough...Cough Sens attendance 11,600. We could put over 11,000 in the Scotiabank Centre with standing room every night for an NHL team.

Oh and their pro soccer team folded...
You realize you're trolling at this point, right?
     
     
  #7107  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2019, 10:48 PM
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You realize you're trolling at this point, right?
Four words: Biggest, Pot, Kettle, Black
     
     
  #7108  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2019, 7:29 AM
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WHL team attendance is averaging 1400, and their AHL team is averaging 5,000.

AA Team averages 4,000 and CPL Team averages 5,000

You could argue the Winnipeg market may be saturated. But why bother it's easier to pick on the east coast of Canada as a bunch of bums that aren't a proven market of supporting pro sports....
To be fair the Ice are playing at the Max Bell Centre at the University of Manitoba currently. It's capacity is only 1400...

Their new arena will be ready in a few years
     
     
  #7109  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2019, 4:58 PM
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I'm not trolling here, but I think that a more realistic CFL comparison should draw from Saskatchewan instead of Manitoba.
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  #7110  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2019, 5:40 PM
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I almost think it’s useless to compare the prairies to the maritimes. I’ve never lived in the prairies but my impression is that they are totally different societies.
     
     
  #7111  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2019, 9:26 PM
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I almost think it’s useless to compare the prairies to the maritimes. I’ve never lived in the prairies but my impression is that they are totally different societies.
I was going to agree with you but then I got to thinking about some of the few people from Saskatchewan I have met, and they were as close to a Maritime mentality (if such a generalization exists) than anyone else in the country. And I don't think you can lump all the Prairies together the same as each Maritime province has differences (as I contradict myself)
     
     
  #7112  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2019, 12:09 AM
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I almost think it’s useless to compare the prairies to the maritimes. I’ve never lived in the prairies but my impression is that they are totally different societies.
Having lived out there for a few years, though there is some differences in who to blame for some social ills. They're similar to the rest of Canada in more ways then the small regional differences. Manitoba is a prime example, half of the province lives in one urban area. They're more aware of that fact in Winnipeg compared to here and acts more like a regional capital, even for some of the smaller northern states. You can also take a train from North to South in Manitoba which would help in here in NS.

People in Halifax are quite starved for entertainment IMO, this concept of a over saturated market is hard to believe. When Junior sports is the marquee at the SB/Metro Centre, with the NLL still in it's infancy here. With the CPL and NBL being newer leagues and having better than average attendance in both bodes well. I'd say we need more locations for pop up events like this stadium. Vanier Cup, AUS games and even championship games for the Wanderers or like other ideas already suggested like the NHL's Winter Classic. For concerts, the acoustics are terrible at the SB Centre which is why so many shows end up at the Forum, Spatz Theater and the Cunard Centre. An outdoor venue that artist can plug and play instead of having to bring their own equipment is a natural advantage when trying to get Halifax tagged onto the end of a North American tours.


The better question we need to ask is, has the entertainment needs changed in the last 41 years since the Metro was built? The last proper major entertainment venue built in Halifax.
     
     
  #7113  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2019, 1:37 PM
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I was going to agree with you but then I got to thinking about some of the few people from Saskatchewan I have met, and they were as close to a Maritime mentality (if such a generalization exists) than anyone else in the country. And I don't think you can lump all the Prairies together the same as each Maritime province has differences (as I contradict myself)
I find with the Maritime differences, is self perceived. The similarities of dialogue/cuisine/leisure/occupation are a distinct mash of Scots-British with a distinct lean on Gael and Planter mentality, with distinct Acadien and Native elements. Later communities making a later impact, while melding into the general "Maritime" life, and adding their own element to the difference in our modern culture. I've found the rest of the country see us as one, with even have been called a Newfie to much chagrin. Although the greater Canadian experience I've found does have congruous paths, where regions are kindred spirits while being two entirely different areas, and as it happens, my experiences with Saskatchewanians being the same. Which gave a new meaning to the phrase "Seas of Wheat" for me.
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  #7114  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2019, 3:37 PM
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Fascinating, guys. Thanks for the analysis. Consider my opinion changed.
     
     
  #7115  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2019, 8:55 PM
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" It’s hard to tell if Canadian Football League commissioner Randy Ambrosie was being deliberately provocative or just plain careless when he floated the idea of a new football stadium in Calgary during Grey Cup weekend in late November.

“I’d like to say this is the last time we’ll have a Grey Cup at McMahon,” he said, referring to the venue the Stampeders have called home since 1960. “Looking into the future, we’ll play the next one in a big, beautiful new stadium.”

The unstated assumption here: It won’t be Calgary Sports and Entertainment, the owner of the Stampeders, who will pay for most of that stadium. And while it’s hard to imagine that Calgarians will be enthusiastic about more corporate welfare for an ownership group that just received a $275-million handout for its National Hockey League team, the Flames, it’s harder to imagine them saying no to it. "
" Regardless of whether the unit of analysis is a local neighbourhood, a city, or an entire metropolitan area," they wrote, "the economic benefits of sports facilities are de minimus.”

That’s because rather than creating new economic activity, they simply reallocate existing entertainment spending – usually to the detriment of other businesses. “Most spending inside a stadium is a substitute for other local recreational spending, such as movies and restaurants,” they said. “Similarly, most tax collections inside a stadium are substitutes: as other entertainment businesses decline, tax collections from them fall.”
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opin...tball-stadium/
     
     
  #7116  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2019, 11:18 PM
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Let's not pretend what you posted had any sort of journalistic balance. It was clearly marked an opinion piece and written by and for anti football people like yourself.

The title states Calgary cannot afford a football stadium, why is football singled out, Why is it only CFL or football prefaces the word stadium. Any fool should be able to discern that it would be for multiple sports use or are these fake news articles written for a crowd that believes a stadium will only be used 10 times a year.

And while we're on the subject of being moronic, let's throw this out there. The Calgary ownership group may be well heeled enough to build their own stadium like the article says they should, so in that case, I guess the city shouldn't have any access to it should they?
     
     
  #7117  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2019, 12:45 PM
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Let's not pretend what you posted had any sort of journalistic balance. It was clearly marked an opinion piece and written by and for anti football people like yourself.
Well, The Globe and Mail is slightly to the right of The Star papers, which is like saying Workers World Daily is slightly to the right of Pravda.
     
     
  #7118  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2019, 9:50 PM
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A replacement for McMahon, just like the Halifax stadium, is in fact a CFL football stadium. Without the CFL, there is no reason to build such a facility. If the Stamps ownership paid out of their pockets for a new stadium, then I doubt anyone would have any objection to them not opening it up for community use. The city could build a multi-field artificial turf complex with washrooms, dressing rooms, a concession booth and a few hundred bench seats for a few million dollars per field and satisfy any of the community uses that would be talked about for the publicly funded stadium.

You aren't fooling anyone or changing anyone's mind one way or the other by trying to call it a community stadium. A couple possible concerts and the laughable idea Halifax is ever going to host an outdoor NHL game aren't reasons to justify that cost without having a CFL team going in. I don't know why people are afraid to just call it what it is.
     
     
  #7119  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2019, 10:01 PM
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I don't know why people are afraid to just call it what it is.
     
     
  #7120  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2019, 10:59 PM
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Well, sure, and all of that happens because of the CFL team because the stadium wouldn't exist without them. How many people did any of those events attract? I imagine every single one of them could have easily been handled at the university stadium with it's turf field and a few thousand seats.
     
     
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