Edmonton Is Making Its Alleyways a Great Place to Live

[memph]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Were postwar neighborhoods in Edmonton built out with alleys? In the U.S. this road typology ended when streetcar suburbs stopped being constructed.

For over 3 decades after WWII, yes.

Examples of neighbourhoods with alleys and approximate time of initial build out

Britannia-Youngstown (50s)
https://www.google.ca/maps/@53.55008...7i13312!8i6656

Killarney (late 50s/early 60s)
https://www.google.ca/maps/@53.58825...7i13312!8i6656

Elmwood (mid 60s - looks like they're building laneway housing here)
https://www.google.ca/maps/@53.51638...7i13312!8i6656

York (mid 60s)
https://www.google.ca/maps/@53.60381...7i13312!8i6656

Evansdale (early 70s)
https://www.google.ca/maps/@53.61038...7i13312!8i6656

Carlisle (mid 70s)
https://www.google.ca/maps/@53.60586...7i13312!8i6656

Steinhauer (mid 70s)
https://www.google.ca/maps/@53.46493...7i13312!8i6656

Hillview (late 70s)
https://www.google.ca/maps/@53.47107...7i13312!8i6656

Kiniski (early 80s)
https://www.google.ca/maps/@53.48038...7i13312!8i6656

Laneways only really started to get phased out of neighbourhoods in the late 70s, but they're coming back with new developments, ex:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@53.41200...7i13312!8i6656

[Crawford]

That's interesting, and odd. Is it a local zoning quirk?

I mean, if you live a totally autocentric lifestyle, alleys don't make much sense. It's true that automobile-era alleys are an accommodation for vehicle mobility, but it doesn't make sense to graft it onto newer sprawl-type development

[itom 987]

Here is an example of laneway housing in Edmonton.
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.5117...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.5493...7i13312!8i6656

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Crawford

That's interesting, and odd. Is it a local zoning quirk?

I mean, if you live a totally autocentric lifestyle, alleys don't make much sense. It's true that automobile-era alleys are an accommodation for vehicle mobility, but it doesn't make sense to graft it onto newer sprawl-type development

Part of it seems to have been the shift to the "subdivision" model. I mean, alleys require twice as much paving, and if you're leaving it up to the developer to plot and pave the initial streets, they're going to do the minimum required by code.

[memph]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Part of it seems to have been the shift to the "subdivision" model. I mean, alleys require twice as much paving, and if you're leaving it up to the developer to plot and pave the initial streets, they're going to do the minimum required by code.

I'm not sure what the reason for it was, but it's not just Edmonton - Regina and Saskatoon are like that too and Calgary is even more like that since it's been building laneways during the 80s to present is significant numbers too. I think British Columbia and Manitoba's bigger cities were building neighbourhoods with laneways in the 50s and 60s but not so much in the 70s-80s like Alberta was. That's still much later than Toronto though which wasn't even building them in most of its 1920s streetcar suburbs.

I think laneways make the most sense in semi-dense neighbourhoods where front-loading the garages would have a major aesthetic impact on homes built on 25-40 ft wide lots. I'm not sure why Prairie cities built them in their 50s-70s suburbs though since those were mostly on 50-60 ft wide lots, but it does come in handy for intensification.

Here's an example of infill in Glengarry (Calgary) which was mostly built out in the early-mid 50s.
https://www.google.ca/maps/@51.03257...7i16384!8i8192
This infill development represents a full 4-fold increase in density, replacing ranch homes on ~50 ft wide lots with 4-5 three bedroom homes. Here's what they look like from the street.
https://www.google.ca/maps/@51.03231...i16384!8i8192\

Anyways, with new development in Edmonton and Calgary being back to the 25-35 ft wide lots of streetcar suburbs, I can see why they're bringing back alleys to avoid having snout houses. Also with narrow lots and front-loaded parking, all the on-street parking would get eaten up by road-cuts for the driveways. But I think it's still a waste of space if they don't also make the street narrower and reduce front setbacks.
Houses with no laneways on the left vs houses with laneways on the right:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@50.89639...7i13312!8i6656

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

yeah, when biking i frequently use chicago's ubiquitous alleys to short-cut my way around hairy intersections and/or annoying one-way streets.

there's like this whole other secondary service street grid laid out over and in between the regular street grid that can be used by cyclists to get around and through places.

the major caveat being that alleys in chicago don't get street-sweeped and are thus prone to collecting broken glass and other debris than can puncture bike tires.

oh yeah, I've had more than my fair share of flats resulting from my alley cut-thrus... and a few altercations with Pittsburghers who think they own the alley and riding through on a bike is not allowed.

Pittsburgh isn't the easiest city to bike in due to the hills and narrow streets, so these weird "ways" are often nice breaks from traffic, and I enjoy the often overgrown nature in the middle of very urban neighborhoods.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by memph

Houses with no laneways on the left vs houses with laneways on the right:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@50.89639...7i13312!8i6656

What a marvelous demonstration of how something as simple as an alley can radically improve the aesthetics of streetcar suburban housing densities.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

What a marvelous demonstration of how something as simple as an alley can radically improve the aesthetics of streetcar suburban housing densities.

I wonder if when they add these laneway homes it means they need to put a driveway in on the front though?

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I wonder if when they add these laneway homes it means they need to put a driveway in on the front though?

That would be a shame, but the houses in that example appear to be too close together to get a driveway between them.

A better solution would be to build a garage facing the alley with the ADU on top of that.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by Crawford

That's interesting, and odd. Is it a local zoning quirk?

I mean, if you live a totally autocentric lifestyle, alleys don't make much sense. It's true that automobile-era alleys are an accommodation for vehicle mobility, but it doesn't make sense to graft it onto newer sprawl-type development

I think it's more about being able to pack more houses into the subdivision. Some of the newer suburban developments in the GTA are built with laneways as well. Eg.

Street side: https://goo.gl/maps/4ocS1i4brPLQ72NCA
Laneway side (with some accessory units as well): https://goo.gl/maps/nHoQmrWADedCMvqB6

[itom 987]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

That would be a shame, but the houses in that example appear to be too close together to get a driveway between them.

A better solution would be to build a garage facing the alley with the ADU on top of that.

This is on the same block of houses that memph posted, just in the back showing the alley. (I hate gravel alleys) The laneway homes would be built on top of the garages.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@50.89726...7i13312!8i6656

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

I think it's more about being able to pack more houses into the subdivision. Some of the newer suburban developments in the GTA are built with laneways as well. Eg.

Street side: https://goo.gl/maps/4ocS1i4brPLQ72NCA
Laneway side (with some accessory units as well): https://goo.gl/maps/nHoQmrWADedCMvqB6

Wow, this is insane. I cannot imagine living in exurbia and having this kind of packed-in neighborhood.

You'd have a bigger yard living in/around downtown Toronto. Of course you'd also pay 4x as much.

[Crawford]

I'm looking at these Markham back "yards", and there isn't a blade of grass. They're concrete patios. You don't even need a mower or any garden/lawn tools.

Are these homeowners mostly immigrants or children of immigrants?

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I'm looking at these Markham back "yards", and there isn't a blade of grass. They're concrete patios. You don't even need a mower or any garden/lawn tools.

Are these homeowners mostly immigrants or children of immigrants?

I would assume so. Around 60% of Markham residents are immigrants.

[dave8721]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Wow, this is insane. I cannot imagine living in exurbia and having this kind of packed-in neighborhood.

You'd have a bigger yard living in/around downtown Toronto. Of course you'd also pay 4x as much.

Packed in far suburban housing is pretty much standard in South Florida too. You can usually tell the age of a neighborhood in South Florida by how crammed in the houses are. Newer neighborhoods look like this, especially in the farthest flung suburbs:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@25.46645.../data=!3m1!1e3

[Crawford]

Yeah, I get that newer sprawl housing tends to be on smaller lots, especially in the Sunbelt, but take a look at the Toronto pics. Nothing like that in the U.S.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Street side: https://goo.gl/maps/4ocS1i4brPLQ72NCA
Laneway side (with some accessory units as well): https://goo.gl/maps/nHoQmrWADedCMvqB6

not too shabby, not too shabby at all, especially for sprawl-burbia.

give the trees and other lanscpaing a decade or two to mature, and that becomes a real place.

the magic of alleys!

now, of course, when you zoom out to neighborhood scale, all of the shortcomings of sprawl-burban planning come into view, but at least at the street level, the alleys allow for a streetscape that is infinitely more attractive than one of those suburban toronto snout-house subdivisions.

crap like this is just unsalvageably ugly: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.8361...7i16384!8i8192

[Doady]

Planning in Markham follows the principles of New Urbanism, which originated in the United States, from Andres Duany, an American. See the film, The Truman Show, for an example of one of the neighbourhoods he designed. It is arguably more a US thing than a Canadian thing. Canada just following the lead of the USA.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Doady

Canada just following the lead of the USA.

when it comes to planning, a nation could not possibly make a bigger mistake.

we've been ROYALLY fucking up planning down here for like 7 decades now.

do. not. emulate.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

crap like this is just unsalvageably ugly: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.8361...7i16384!8i8192

These are the worst. I believe they're known as "snout houses" or something like that... with the garage being the focal point of the "design".