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  #721  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2021, 7:20 PM
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phillyskyscraperbro9 phillyskyscraperbro9 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thoughtcriminal View Post
..."and rippled metal bands used on the exterior are a nod to railroad cars once manufactured at the former Budd Co. plant."
wut?
this is the kind of thing that drives me crazy, this postmodern desire to extend a "nod" to some other thing, especially some esoteric thing that no one, that NO ONE, would ever understand just by looking at the building. no one would ever look at that building and say "oh yes, that reminds me of the railroad cars that were once manufactured at the former Budd Co plant." (and I don't know this for sure, but I doubt Norman Foster ever thought of the railroad cars thing, it seems like something one of his designers or else the marketing people came up with, but that is speculation. I can't see him sitting in his studio, working on the design, and thinking "hmmmm, we need something here. Let's look at the railroad cars that were once manufactured at the former Budd Co plant. Eureka! that's it!" but again, I don't know for sure...)
why can't they just let the building be its own thing? why does it *have* to reference something else? why can't they just say that the metal bands are what they are because they look good and function well? It's such a stretch to try to reference something obscure like that, it seems so tacked on - like they really thought that the bands were just good design, but felt they had to justify it with this esoteric historic reference which has nothing to do with the building or the site or anything. It's crazy.
i used to live in the north east by the old budd factory. i like trains
     
     
  #722  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2021, 4:59 AM
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SEFTA SEFTA is offline
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There is a design process.
When you start with a blank page
references of history and the surroundings is where you begin
colors and textures and shapes of the site and what has happened there begin to influence decisions that are made.
It's why every city has a palate
continuity
Without these references
solutions are arbitrary
random
generic
it's a tool
if that was truly the inspiration who knows
it doesn't sound far fetched to me
(when the professor asks why brown you have to have an answer)


Quote:
Originally Posted by thoughtcriminal View Post
..."and rippled metal bands used on the exterior are a nod to railroad cars once manufactured at the former Budd Co. plant."
wut?
this is the kind of thing that drives me crazy, this postmodern desire to extend a "nod" to some other thing, especially some esoteric thing that no one, that NO ONE, would ever understand just by looking at the building. no one would ever look at that building and say "oh yes, that reminds me of the railroad cars that were once manufactured at the former Budd Co plant." (and I don't know this for sure, but I doubt Norman Foster ever thought of the railroad cars thing, it seems like something one of his designers or else the marketing people came up with, but that is speculation. I can't see him sitting in his studio, working on the design, and thinking "hmmmm, we need something here. Let's look at the railroad cars that were once manufactured at the former Budd Co plant. Eureka! that's it!" but again, I don't know for sure...)
why can't they just let the building be its own thing? why does it *have* to reference something else? why can't they just say that the metal bands are what they are because they look good and function well? It's such a stretch to try to reference something obscure like that, it seems so tacked on - like they really thought that the bands were just good design, but felt they had to justify it with this esoteric historic reference which has nothing to do with the building or the site or anything. It's crazy.
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Last edited by SEFTA; Nov 1, 2021 at 6:40 AM.
     
     
  #723  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2021, 12:45 PM
Justin7 Justin7 is offline
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People will get angry about anything. Personally think the Budd reference is great, but that weird pipe cleaner tree thing in the lobby has me seething with rage.
     
     
  #724  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2021, 1:04 PM
Philly Fan Philly Fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin7 View Post
. . . . that weird pipe cleaner tree thing in the lobby has me seething with rage.
Hopefully, it makes a better impression in person (I also found it kind of odd in the photo).
     
     
  #725  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2021, 1:36 PM
thoughtcriminal thoughtcriminal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEFTA View Post
There is a design process.
When you start with a blank page
references of history and the surroundings is where you begin
colors and textures and shapes of the site and what has happened there begin to influence decisions that are made.
It's why every city has a palate
continuity
Without these references
solutions are arbitrary
random
generic
it's a tool
if that was truly the inspiration who knows
it doesn't sound far fetched to me
(when the professor asks why brown you have to have an answer)
I understand the design process, I am an architect. I am saying that I disagree with a lot of the process. yes, when the professor asks why brown, you need an answer, but to me it should be a better answer than "well they used to make train cars in a factory in north philly like that." if i'm the "professor", my response to that would be, so what? what does that have to do with the price of beans? if you're going to make a historical reference, and I am not saying that you should, you should at least make it relevant and understandable.
     
     
  #726  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2021, 2:35 PM
Londonee Londonee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly Fan View Post
Hopefully, it makes a better impression in person (I also found it kind of odd in the photo).
It's actually pretty cool looking in person, it's quite large - probably 40ft tall. It's called the DNA Tree of Life or something, so it's kind of DNA strands twisting; but into a tree form.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thoughtcriminal View Post
I understand the design process, I am an architect. I am saying that I disagree with a lot of the process. yes, when the professor asks why brown, you need an answer, but to me it should be a better answer than "well they used to make train cars in a factory in north philly like that." if i'm the "professor", my response to that would be, so what? what does that have to do with the price of beans? if you're going to make a historical reference, and I am not saying that you should, you should at least make it relevant and understandable.
I know what you mean, but obviously during pitch presentations from the architect to the client these kind of interpretations do pack some weight tho - especially with the old-crusty, Board of Trustees group who would be listening to it. It seems to me to be part of the game at the Starchictect level.

I work in a creative field where pitching projects to win bids or get $$ is part of the gig and I often find myself using similar tactics. It shows a bit of care and respect when explaining your reasons for something - even if it is a stretch - and shows that you're thinking about things 360degrees and not just sauntering in on reputation or good idea alone.
     
     
  #727  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2021, 2:53 PM
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Philadelphia Transportation Thread: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=164129
     
     
  #728  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2021, 3:20 PM
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I think all art is necessarily derivative. It's impossible to create something truly random, or unique. Whether actively or subconsciously all artists, including architects, draw from influences. And I think often their influences are impossible to actually remember or articulate, or don't sound cool, so they just kind of tell a story to appease the client. It's annoying, yes, but ultimately harmless.
     
     
  #729  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2021, 6:56 PM
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I remember reading an interview with someone from Foster saying that the rippled metal on north and south sides of the CTC base were inspired by the Budd Silverliners. I thought the resemblance was pretty convincing, and surely plausible given the proximity to Suburban Station. They might actually just be "referencing" their last project here
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  #730  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2021, 1:35 AM
Philly Fan Philly Fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Londonee View Post
It's actually pretty cool looking in person, it's quite large - probably 40ft tall. It's called the DNA Tree of Life or something, so it's kind of DNA strands twisting; but into a tree form.
     
     
  #731  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2021, 10:55 PM
City Wide City Wide is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thoughtcriminal View Post
..."and rippled metal bands used on the exterior are a nod to railroad cars once manufactured at the former Budd Co. plant."
wut?
this is the kind of thing that drives me crazy, this postmodern desire to extend a "nod" to some other thing, especially some esoteric thing that no one, that NO ONE, would ever understand just by looking at the building. no one would ever look at that building and say "oh yes, that reminds me of the railroad cars that were once manufactured at the former Budd Co plant." (and I don't know this for sure, but I doubt Norman Foster ever thought of the railroad cars thing, it seems like something one of his designers or else the marketing people came up with, but that is speculation. I can't see him sitting in his studio, working on the design, and thinking "hmmmm, we need something here. Let's look at the railroad cars that were once manufactured at the former Budd Co plant. Eureka! that's it!" but again, I don't know for sure...)
why can't they just let the building be its own thing? why does it *have* to reference something else? why can't they just say that the metal bands are what they are because they look good and function well? It's such a stretch to try to reference something obscure like that, it seems so tacked on - like they really thought that the bands were just good design, but felt they had to justify it with this esoteric historic reference which has nothing to do with the building or the site or anything. It's crazy.
Whether an architect is great or poor, they almost all are full shit when they talk about their dear buildings. The desirse for context is so strong that most will say just about anything. Whatever happened to form follows function as a starting point. Certainly in a hospital function, and in this case the site, has much to do with the basic design.

Has anyone read or heard if this building was engineered to allow additional floors to be added if needed?
     
     
  #732  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2021, 4:30 PM
arkitect13 arkitect13 is offline
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Originally Posted by City Wide View Post
Has anyone read or heard if this building was engineered to allow additional floors to be added if needed?
No, but the engineering, and structure are so massive and complex I wouldn't be surprised if it could happen
     
     
  #733  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2021, 4:32 PM
Justin7 Justin7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Londonee View Post
It's actually pretty cool looking in person, it's quite large - probably 40ft tall. It's called the DNA Tree of Life or something, so it's kind of DNA strands twisting; but into a tree form.
Yeah, those images don't do it justice. I actually like it.
     
     
  #734  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2021, 4:43 PM
thoughtcriminal thoughtcriminal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by City Wide View Post
Whether an architect is great or poor, they almost all are full shit when they talk about their dear buildings. The desirse for context is so strong that most will say just about anything. Whatever happened to form follows function as a starting point. Certainly in a hospital function, and in this case the site, has much to do with the basic design.
Agreed. the thing with "contextualism" is that, over time, as other buildings are built, the context can change. form follows function should definitely be the driver of the design, and not need any other justification. and it probably was, but they don't want to admit it, in my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by City Wide View Post
Has anyone read or heard if this building was engineered to allow additional floors to be added if needed?
no but I seriously doubt it.
     
     
  #735  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2021, 5:35 PM
PHLtoNYC PHLtoNYC is online now
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Penn’s new hospital belatedly recognizes pedestrian space is a public health issue | Inga Saffron

https://www.inquirer.com/real-estate...-20211108.html

Inga's take... Seems like she's actually a fan of the building, less so the surrounding streetscape.
     
     
  #736  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2021, 6:18 PM
3rd&Brown 3rd&Brown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC View Post
Penn’s new hospital belatedly recognizes pedestrian space is a public health issue | Inga Saffron

https://www.inquirer.com/real-estate...-20211108.html

Inga's take... Seems like she's actually a fan of the building, less so the surrounding streetscape.
Didn't read it yet but I was in West Philly last week for a doctor's appointment, and though I wasn't really a big fan of this building, I think it looks great in person at ground level. My doc (who is affiliated with Penn) was gushing about the building when we talked about it. He said it has done a lot to improve morale of the staff there and literally everyone is super excited about working in the new building. It might literally be the most advanced hospital building in the world. He said a lot of really thoughtful stuff was done during the design. Like, every room can be converted to an ICU. There's a pull out bed in every room (for family) under the window. Screens in the room announce to patients coming and going. He went on and on.

We're lucky to have it.
     
     
  #737  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2021, 2:46 PM
Redddog Redddog is offline
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And the new outpatient thing at 11th and Chestnut is also supposed to be the most advanced for what IT is.

Go Philly.

I was at the Penn/Cornell Football game last weekend (one of the worst displays of "football" I've seen in a wlong time),. This building lords over Franklin Field. It's amazing.
     
     
  #738  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2021, 4:33 PM
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Foster + Partners’ massive “hospital of the future” for Penn Medicine opens in West Philadelphia

Read/view more here:
https://www.archpaper.com/2021/11/fo...rR38DIae9DwdvM
     
     
  #739  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2021, 4:37 PM
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This is officially COMPLETE and will be moved to the completed threads archive.
     
     
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