7 Queen St N + 354 King St W | 77.2 & 41.7 m | 12 & 25 fl | Under Construction

[HillStreetBlues]

Originally Posted by king10

Im not sure there are develoeprs w Vranich'z pocket book lining up to build in Hamilton.

I don’t agree with the logic. With the right conditions, all types of developers would come to Hamilton. Perhaps the municipal government should cease any kind of oversight of development, waive all development fees and other charges, and allow demolition or alteration or anything else without need even for an application. Then we would attract all sorts of developers.

It’s insane to compare the demolition of an existing building on an important intersection in the downtown with the building of a fence or a gazebo. It should be the practice to inform the public when a change in use of a piece of land is being proposed (for instance, replacing a building with a vacant lot), and it is perfectly reasonable for the municipal government to deny demolition permits unless there is an actual plan for redevelopment. It is in the public interest to promote higher and better uses for land in the city.

If it was permitted to demolish buildings willy nilly without any plans for redevelopment, what you would see is a lot of individual property speculators hoping that the price of their land goes, up tearing down the existing buildings and replacing them with low-value uses (vacant lots, parking lots) while they await hypothetical conditions that will allow them to sell to someone who might think he can redevelop. The result would be declining tax revenues and rising taxes for the existing tax base.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by movingtohamilton

You're correct, on a strict interpretation. The notice posted typically describes that a "building of X stories is proposed to be constructed on this site". Pretty much guarantees that the existing building is coming down, in whole or in part (like saving the facade).

Is this a deliberate attempt to be disingenuous? The City of Toronto does not post notices for applications for demolition permits. Period. It does post notices of rezoning applications for redevelopment whenever required, just like here.

[mattgrande]

Personally, I just always get nervous when a demolition permit is issued with no plans for redevelopment. I'm not really attached to this building, and I hope something great takes its place... I just hope it takes its place soon, and we end up with something better that what went down.

[movingtohamilton]

No markbarbera, I have no intention to be disingenuous. But I think you're unwilling to engage on the bigger issue, choosing instead to be jumping on me on my comments about permits.

But you did post earlier: "IMO we should be cheering on such developments", so I do have a good idea on where you stand.

I guess we should agree to disagree, and move on?

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by movingtohamilton

You're kidding, right? Why bother keeping the public informed?

If you'd read what I said I'm very focused on keeping the public informed. Drowning out important information with trivialities does the opposite. This building is not urban and interacts with the street so little it might as well be a parking lot already. It's so incredibly non-descript I didn't remember it in the slightest despite having passed it almost every day of my life for like 6 or 7 years. Wasting tax money on keeping the public informed on something like this is just that, a waste. It doesn't just waste the money of the public and city but also the time of the city, developper, and activists trying to keep an eye out for abuses.

Remember there's two uninformed dystopia settings: 1984 where no one has any information, and Brave New World where any useful information is lost in a sea of triviallities.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by Pearlstreet

I was just about to post this also...

Once talk of an LRT stop here, but how quickly a back room discussion can swap things around! A little grease-ball to the wheel to make things move faster with no public interest. I own a place just around the corner and this is getting to me now. Also the church kiddie-corner to this is slated for demo and will change this whole intersection more. These developments might be combined? Terrible heritage issue here, how in hell does this go under the rug? I appreciate the Vrancor contribution, but through the back door? His office is right next to this property, it's a long time coming I'm sure.

McHattie saves the day again by finding the permit in the first place. Thank you sir.

McHattie saved the day? Really? How?

Truth is, McHattie and his staff dropped the ball here. They allowed this permit application to go unnoticed because they were too busy working on his mayoral election campaign and weren't paying attention to constituent matters in Ward One like demolition permits. If we are going to play the blame game, let's do it fairly and evenly.

[movingtohamilton]

Beedok, there's one more dystopian setting:Hamilton.

It's a combination of 1950's thinking ("the car is everything, so we need those 4-lane highways downtown!"; "don't mess too much with those one-way streets!"), 1984 (the City's transparency and accountability committee did not publish minutes of its meetings; councilors pushed back hard against a lobbyist registration process for a long time) and Brave New World (the City tells you that there's yoga in front of city hall, but did it openly disclose that it committed to pay Ti-Cats $1 million for every game not played in the new stadium?).

I really like living here, and glad we moved to Hamilton. But many people seem to be willfully ignorant of some pretty obvious shenanigans that occur here regularly. On one occasion I dared to question the "accepted wisdom" and was accused of being "from away", like it's a crime! Only would the small-town mindset say something that dumb.

[HillStreetBlues]

Originally Posted by Beedok

This building is not urban and interacts with the street so little it might as well be a parking lot already.

Are you completely sure about this?

[king10]

Originally Posted by movingtohamilton

Beedok, there's one more dystopian setting:Hamilton.

It's a combination of 1950's thinking ("the car is everything, so we need those 4-lane highways downtown!"; "don't mess too much with those one-way streets!"), 1984 (the City's transparency and accountability committee did not publish minutes of its meetings; councilors pushed back hard against a lobbyist registration process for a long time) and Brave New World (the City tells you that there's yoga in front of city hall, but did it openly disclose that it committed to pay Ti-Cats $1 million for every game not played in the new stadium?).

I really like living here, and glad we moved to Hamilton. But many people seem to be willfully ignorant of some pretty obvious shenanigans that occur here regularly. On one occasion I dared to question the "accepted wisdom" and was accused of being "from away", like it's a crime! Only would the small-town mindset say something that dumb.

Sounds like Hamilton politics are really rubbing you the wrong way. I think you'd be better served to direct your frusteration elsewhere because there is not much we as forumers can do for you. Half of us dont even agree. But you should talk to someone at city hall or maybe write an opinion piece in the spec to voice your concerns. I agree that city council is disfunctional and needs a shake up (which will happen to some extent come Jan)

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by movingtohamilton

Beedok, there's one more dystopian setting:Hamilton.

It's a combination of 1950's thinking ("the car is everything, so we need those 4-lane highways downtown!"; "don't mess too much with those one-way streets!"), 1984 (the City's transparency and accountability committee did not publish minutes of its meetings; councilors pushed back hard against a lobbyist registration process for a long time) and Brave New World (the City tells you that there's yoga in front of city hall, but did it openly disclose that it committed to pay Ti-Cats $1 million for every game not played in the new stadium?).

I really like living here, and glad we moved to Hamilton. But many people seem to be willfully ignorant of some pretty obvious shenanigans that occur here regularly. On one occasion I dared to question the "accepted wisdom" and was accused of being "from away", like it's a crime! Only would the small-town mindset say something that dumb.

That's not Dystopia Hamilton. That's municipal politics pretty well everywhere. As a city of a couple million Toronto can manage a larger apparatus that works a bit better, but most cities are a byzantine web of backroom deals and personal friendships.

Originally Posted by HillStreetBlues

Are you completely sure about this?

Half the lot (the half by the intersection that apparently makes this lot extra important) is already a parking lot. Hidden behind trees and a fence set back like what 15-20 feet from the street, the building contributes almost nothing to the urban feel. The trees are more important than the building.

[HillStreetBlues]

If this site were anywhere else on King Street, I would still be saying that demolition of a habitable building should not be approved without appropriate plans for redevelopment in place. King at Longwood, King at Queen, King midblock near Wentworth- wherever. I can’t see why anyone would have a preference for a vacant lot or a parking lot over a building.

I don’t have strong opinions about heritage, and don’t know if this building is worth preserving (some must be, though, and Hamilton seems to have a history of not recognizing that). It’s true that it is set back from the street, and not particularly aesthetically appealing (I’m not sure about this as walking down this part of King is unpleasant enough to try to avoid it). But I would still say that it is better than nothing.

[Beedok]

Do we even know there isn't a plan to replace it with something? If we didn't even know it was coming down.

I also find it confusing how everyone complains when city council overrules city staff, yet also flips out when city staff act without the council.

[movingtohamilton]

Originally Posted by king10

Sounds like Hamilton politics are really rubbing you the wrong way....

Not at all! Hamilton politics are a combo of the bizarre, the hilarious, and the stupid...with the occasional intelligent decision. There seem to be no direct threats to life and limb coming from that 3-ring circus at 71 Main St. West, so I've got no reason to write anyone. I'll just harass you, king10!

It's just a shame there are no leaders with any real vision. Instead, the new mayor is, apparently, an old mayor? Now that's progress!

[HillStreetBlues]

Originally Posted by Beedok

Do we even know there isn't a plan to replace it with something? If we didn't even know it was coming down.

No, we don’t know. We don’t know whether there’s a plan to replace it with something. If there maybe is, we don’t know what it might be.

Originally Posted by Beedok

I also find it confusing how everyone complains when city council overrules city staff, yet also flips out when city staff act without the council.

I think that, in a lot of cases, people justifiably question the reasons why council overrule staff’s expert assessment. That’s not to say there aren’t instances where council might rightly reject a staff recommendation. Council is there for a reason, presumably. Presumably, staff and council should both be involved.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by movingtohamilton

Not at all! Hamilton politics are a combo of the bizarre, the hilarious, and the stupid...with the occasional intelligent decision. There seem to be no direct threats to life and limb coming from that 3-ring circus at 71 Main St. West, so I've got no reason to write anyone. I'll just harass you, king10!

It's just a shame there are no leaders with any real vision. Instead, the new mayor is, apparently, an old mayor? Now that's progress!

This is an interesting observation coming from a Toronto ex-patriot. When it comes to city hall buffoonery, Toronto has been a world leader ever since the days of Bad Boy Mel Lastman.

[movingtohamilton]

^ Nope, haven't lived in Toronto for years and years.

[markbarbera]

Which I suppose explains your inaccurate comments about City of Toronto's policy regarding public notices about demolitions

[movingtohamilton]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

Which I suppose explains your inaccurate comments about City of Toronto's policy regarding public notices about demolitions

Haha! I work in Toronto.

So anyway, where's the best place in Hamilton for Chinese food? The real stuff.

[markbarbera]

Toronto.

[bigguy1231]

I my be wrong but aren't building permits and demolition permits usually approved by staff rather council. If that is the case then why would anyone suspect that something underhanded has happened. There is nothing underhanded by city staff doing what they are paid to do. Election or not the city still has to function and city services such as issuing permits and all of the other services provided by the city continue to operate. There are rules in place to guide the city employees in their decisions.

Why is it that people who don't like the decisions that are made, want council to micro manage every aspect of how this city is run. Council is there to set bylaws and guidelines, not to get into the details of every transaction taking place in this city.