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  #1  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 3:39 AM
LakeLocker LakeLocker is offline
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Canada's Carribean Relations?

I get that this phrase instantly drums up the Turks and Caicos. But beyond that the Caribbean is an obvious counterpart of Canada.

We obviously have tonnes of Anglo Caribbean folk in Toronto etc. We obviously have a tonne of Franco Caribbean Folk living in Montreal.

It can't be ignored that us Canadians really do enjoy going down south come winter.

But why unlike the US aren't we more involved?
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  #2  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 3:43 AM
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What do you mean by involved?

The United States shares its borders with Caribbean waters. Miami is the financial centre. They have an obvious closer relationship
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  #3  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 4:13 AM
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Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post
What do you mean by involved?

The United States shares its borders with Caribbean waters. Miami is the financial centre. They have an obvious closer relationship



I was thinking about things like the Base in Gautoama Bay.


The fact Puerto Rico is a US territory.

The influence the US has in Panama/Costa Rica.

The number of wealthy Americans living in the Caribbean.

The list goes on.

I'm obviously not hoping we copy American mistakes.

But I just think its funny how they're our natural counterparts.

I mean would the world become a worst place if Jamaica became a Canadian province/territory?

Or more likely if we just had better relations with one of these countries.

I.e. we invest and fix their problems and we get a place we can visit.

The difference between us and the States is that they have something we want.

And yes a "warm place" counts for a lot.
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Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 4:23 AM
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Can we not already visit without fixing all their problems? I mean, I think it's great to want to help less developed countries and territories, but there are lots of poor countries that need as much or more help, I'm not really sure what clear geopolitical benefits there would be for Canada. Is it just about bragging rights or prestige?
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  #5  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 4:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
Can we not already visit without fixing all their problems?
Well the point is now they are relatively unfit for investment.

I think the idea would be creating a relationship that was investor friendly.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
I mean, I think it's great to want to help less developed countries and territories, but there are lots of poor countries that need as much or more help, I'm not really sure what clear geopolitical benefits there would be for Canada. Is it just about bragging rights or prestige?
Well currently we're dumping large amounts of money into American and British Coloumbian real estate.

Seems logical that we'd want somewhere else to dump that money.

It's also an issue that we loose people to warmer climates as well.

With internet technology and just the degree that Canadians are globalized it seems somewhat obvious that we are one economic crisis away from having a serious brain drain.

It is also relevant to consider how working from home might affect things.
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  #6  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 4:47 AM
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Jamaica would be our 4th or 5th largest province and by far the poorest and most dysfunctional. Canada isn’t capable of “fixing” it.
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  #7  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 4:56 AM
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Originally Posted by LakeLocker View Post

It is also relevant to consider how working from home might affect things.
I'm guessing you probably happened across this then? lol

Video Link
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  #8  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 5:26 AM
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It sounds like you are advocating for some kind of "Great Canadian Empire". The concept of spreading "Canadianness" around the world is a somewhat interesting idea, even if only for entertainment purposes. I mean, there are a number of things to do in Canada, so why not?
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  #9  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 1:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
I'm guessing you probably happened across this then? lol

Video Link
Well this is the point. If its coming shouldn't we do something about it?
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  #10  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 1:41 PM
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I mean, there are a number of things to do in Canada, so why not?
Especially Okotoks!
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  #11  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 1:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Architype View Post
It sounds like you are advocating for some kind of "Great Canadian Empire". The concept of spreading "Canadianness" around the world is a somewhat interesting idea, even if only for entertainment purposes. I mean, there are a number of things to do in Canada, so why not?
I was thinking more along the lines, Why the fuck am I staying in this frozen ass country if I am working from home? Between the cost of living and weather . .. .

Americans have endless places in the sun, meanwhile Canadians are dumping everything they got into a small portion of our pacific coast.

I should be clear it isn't just me, I'm surrounded by family members who were pissed they didn't get to go to Florida this year.

Family members who were pissed they didn't buy places in Florida a decade back.
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  #12  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 1:53 PM
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This is one of those things that's bandied about once and awhile, but never gets traction. I think there's a reason behind that.

People want to go to the Caribbean for a cheap sun vacation. In theory should one raise one of those countries to Canadian living standards by being part of Canada, the cost of that vacation now approaches domestic travel.

People therefore go to the next cheapest place, because the appeal is that one can get an all inclusive vacation for less than $2000. That's not possible if you want to do it in a first world country.

So, if you're not recapturing the vacation money that flees south, what exactly is the strategic interest for Canada?
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  #13  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 2:02 PM
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Originally Posted by LakeLocker View Post
I was thinking more along the lines, Why the fuck am I staying in this frozen ass country if I am working from home? Between the cost of living and weather . .. .

Americans have endless places in the sun, meanwhile Canadians are dumping everything they got into a small portion of our pacific coast.

I should be clear it isn't just me, I'm surrounded by family members who were pissed they didn't get to go to Florida this year.

Family members who were pissed they didn't buy places in Florida a decade back.
You want the taxpayers of Canada to subsidize an entire nation just so people can have a place to sit on a beach and be warm in the winter?

There's plenty of cheap places in Arizona, Texas and Florida still. COVID-19 changed the game this year, sure, but it's not as if those places are post-apocalyptic wastelands. They'll be there in the future.
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  #14  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 3:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeLocker View Post
I was thinking about things like the Base in Gautoama Bay.


The fact Puerto Rico is a US territory.

The influence the US has in Panama/Costa Rica.

The number of wealthy Americans living in the Caribbean.

The list goes on.

I'm obviously not hoping we copy American mistakes.

But I just think its funny how they're our natural counterparts.

I mean would the world become a worst place if Jamaica became a Canadian province/territory?

Or more likely if we just had better relations with one of these countries.

I.e. we invest and fix their problems and we get a place we can visit.

The difference between us and the States is that they have something we want.

And yes a "warm place" counts for a lot.
You completely overlooked my point. Location! Location! Location! It's a world away from us. The United States are direct neighbours.

This is an insane idea and that's why it never gained traction. Overtaking a sovereign nation with the promise of economic growth for the purposes of having a nice warm spot!?! We have enough domestic financial struggles. There are children here that don't have breakfast or lunch every day. Our economic growth is nearly entirely based on resource extraction bubbles, tech bubbles, real estate bubbles... commodities and stock markets. We are certainly not in a position to build another economy.

Last edited by WhipperSnapper; Jul 29, 2020 at 3:23 PM.
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Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 3:14 PM
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Ah yes, the annual SSP 'We should have a Caribbean province because i'm tired of the cold' thread.

Not sure if the intent of this thread comes from some place of priviledge or from some weird place where Canada's preferences outweigh those of our Caribbean neighbours. Either way, not happening.
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  #16  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 3:54 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
Ah yes, the annual SSP 'We should have a Caribbean province because i'm tired of the cold' thread.

Not sure if the intent of this thread comes from some place of priviledge or from some weird place where Canada's preferences outweigh those of our Caribbean neighbours. Either way, not happening.
I don't think the intent is to force our will on some unsuspecting Caribbean nation... if it happened, it would have to be to mutual benefit. But that said, I agree that it's not going to happen. People can have vacations and even move to warmer places without requiring Canada to annex another country...
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  #17  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 3:56 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
I don't think the intent is to force our will on some unsuspecting Caribbean nation... if it happened, it would have to be to mutual benefit. But that said, I agree that it's not going to happen. People can have vacations and even move to warmer places without requiring Canada to annex another country...
Indeed, and I think it's rich to assume that we would miraculously improve living conditions in whatever island we supposedly annex when we have so many in this country still without basic necessities.
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  #18  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 4:12 PM
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Originally Posted by wave46 View Post
This is one of those things that's bandied about once and awhile, but never gets traction. I think there's a reason behind that.

People want to go to the Caribbean for a cheap sun vacation. In theory should one raise one of those countries to Canadian living standards by being part of Canada, the cost of that vacation now approaches domestic travel.

People therefore go to the next cheapest place, because the appeal is that one can get an all inclusive vacation for less than $2000. That's not possible if you want to do it in a first world country.

So, if you're not recapturing the vacation money that flees south, what exactly is the strategic interest for Canada?

I mean obviously there's many different ways of going about it.

I don't think literally making Jamaica/whatever a province in just a decade is the ideal timeline.

It's more like developing a strong relationship with a country, so Canadians can make investments in the country and know they aren't gonna have those properties taken away from them and or end up being slaughtered in Gang Violence.

The ideal scenario would be something like where Canadians still pay Federal Taxes and if they still like more than six months of the year in Canada provincial as well.

The part that helps is it'd still be very cheap to live there up until the point the island is more or less developed enough to join the country.
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  #19  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 4:16 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
Ah yes, the annual SSP 'We should have a Caribbean province because i'm tired of the cold' thread.

Not sure if the intent of this thread comes from some place of priviledge or from some weird place where Canada's preferences outweigh those of our Caribbean neighbours. Either way, not happening.
The Carribbean viewpoint is they desperately need investment. Otherwise the many millions of their folk already on the continental mainland will continue to flood to miami, new york, toronto, montreal.

We have every interest in keeping our wealth within the reach of our fellow Canadians.

The idea of privilege is simple. The rich already goto the Caribbean, the idea would be something along the lines of making it possible for middle class Canadians to do the same, without loosing the tax base.

Canada and Norjway are the only two major countries that don't already have a system for going to a snow free place in winter.

Our current system is to pump money into Florida hoping that many of these people don't decide to stay up there.

We're one presidents: tax, immigration, and healtcare reform away from yet another great southern brain drain.
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  #20  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2020, 4:18 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
People can have vacations and even move to warmer places without requiring Canada to annex another country...
Exactly.

It's even worse than that - as wave46 pointed out, one of the things that sun-seeking Canadians demand is bang for the buck, which implies underpaid (by Canadian standards) hotel staff, little in the way of regulations, cheap local CoL, etc.

Most people I know, by far, who go to the Caribbean for brief vacations go to destinations that are not parts of Britain, France or the Netherlands. It's not a coincidence.

My grandpa was the exception - being unilingual, he was stuck with always going to Guadeloupe or Martinique. (Back during his peak travel days, stuff down there was less developed than it is today; now it's probably less of a factor.)
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