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  #21  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2020, 11:36 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is online now
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Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
No, protestors stay off private property when not welcome there
lol, no they do not.
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  #22  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2020, 12:11 AM
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Like so much of what's quoted in the world...if you included is full sentence he's correct.
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  #23  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2020, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
No, protestors stay off private property when not welcome there and do no damage to private property. Rioters do. A high percentage of the so-called protests recently have devolved into riots because of the presence in the crowds of people wanting to engage in violence and the inability of the organizers, who may have intended them to be peaceful, to control the interlopers.

The bottom line is that these events now are changing no minds and serving no purpose. Indeed, they may be making some people wonder about their initial support. It's time to end them but they probably won't end because the of the elements who enjoy the opportunity to flout the law and wave a middle digit at society.
amen

if private streets help people with some decent wealth and income stay in st louis, a high crime city, instead of high-tailing it to the suburbs, that's a good thing
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  #24  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2020, 12:58 AM
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THE PROTESTERS DID NOT DAMAGE ANYTHING. Therefore, by your own logic, they were not "rioting." Jesus. They were, however, unlawfully threatened by two crazed, lying, piece-of-shit gun nuts, which is a little more serious than walking on a "private" sidewalk.

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if private streets help people with some decent wealth and income stay in st louis, a high crime city, instead of high-tailing it to the suburbs, that's a good thing
The crime and poverty is a SYMPTOM of the culture that created and maintains these private streets, and that culture is the reason that St. Louis is where it is today.

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The bottom line is that these events now are changing no minds and serving no purpose.
Uh, you're verifiably wrong: https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2020...tter-movement/
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  #25  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2020, 1:01 AM
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Originally Posted by IWant2BeInSTL View Post
THE PROTESTERS DID NOT DAMAGE ANYTHING. Therefore, by your own logic, they were not "rioting." Jesus.



The crime and poverty is a SYMPTOM of the culture that created and maintains these private streets, and that culture is the reason that St. Louis is where it is today.



Uh, you're verifiably wrong: https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2020...tter-movement/
well thats not really obvious. the crime and poverty could be caused by many other national and local factors.

wealthy people exist in every city. these people stayed in the city instead of leaving. good. keep them there.
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  #26  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2020, 1:04 AM
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^ yeah, a bunch of books written by historians that have studied the wealth deprivation of and discrimination against black communities across the US a hell of a lot more than you have would beg to differ with you. here's a good one to get you started: https://www.amazon.com/Mapping-Decli.../dp/0812220943
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  #27  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2020, 1:06 AM
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Originally Posted by mhays View Post
Like so much of what's quoted in the world...if you included is full sentence he's correct.
What I quoted was false, thus the statement was false. Protestors might stay off of private property, and they might not. The entire point of protesting is to be disruptive. Civil Rights Movement lunch counter sit-in protests were done on private property. Were those not protests now?
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  #28  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2020, 2:06 AM
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Ok, some are on private property. But generally people who break things are in the rioter category, not like the vast majority of protesters. That was the point you denied.
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  #29  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2020, 2:21 AM
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I'm lost. How can a street be private? Are these actual streets or more lane ways for gated communities where the land is strata and not freehold?
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  #30  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2020, 2:48 AM
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Originally Posted by mhays View Post
Ok, some are on private property. But generally people who break things are in the rioter category, not like the vast majority of protesters. That was the point you denied.
I didn't deny it. I deliberately did not quote that part to avoid this exact conversation.
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  #31  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2020, 3:33 AM
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
I'm lost. How can a street be private? Are these actual streets or more lane ways for gated communities where the land is strata and not freehold?
They are streets that more or less fall in line with the city grid, but have gateway features or actual gates at each end. The street is held by the owners along it. New Orleans had a few as well, and (I think) San Francisco, they were quite the rage among robber barons in the Victorian era.

I'm not sure how the street is 'owned' from a legal perspective, I'm guessing there is some kind of homeowners association or co-op structure that owns the "street parcel". Or potentially each homeowner owns half the street and grants cross-easements to his neighbor for access. Underground utilities are an easement granted to the city or the various utility companies.
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  #32  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2020, 3:39 AM
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*sigh* Pedestrian derails yet another thread with his right-wing garbage.
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  #33  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2020, 5:07 AM
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Was St Louis destroyed by racism like Detroit was? Is that why St Louis isn't as prosperous as it could be?
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  #34  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2020, 7:29 PM
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^ in large part, yes. but also, civic leaders of the 40s and 50s thought they were being progressive by embracing highways and urban renewal. in reality they were just destroying the city.
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  #35  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2020, 7:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
They are streets that more or less fall in line with the city grid, but have gateway features or actual gates at each end. The street is held by the owners along it. New Orleans had a few as well, and (I think) San Francisco, they were quite the rage among robber barons in the Victorian era.

I'm not sure how the street is 'owned' from a legal perspective, I'm guessing there is some kind of homeowners association or co-op structure that owns the "street parcel". Or potentially each homeowner owns half the street and grants cross-easements to his neighbor for access. Underground utilities are an easement granted to the city or the various utility companies.
Thanks for the info.

Having a "gated street" on the street grid is obviously exceptionally poor urban planning and breaks down the urban fabric while simultaneously reinforcing socio-economic stratification. That said, these don't sound like actual streets but more laneways and/or entrances to a gated community similar to townhome developments where each owner is either part of a strata or co-op. In other words these are technically not public streets but rather private access roads.

There is one easy way to determine if these are actual streets.............does the city maintain them? If the city does things on the street like clear the snow or fill the pot holes then it is a street but if not then they are not streets but extended driveways.If the latter is the case then they have every right to put up a gate because it is NOT a public street but rather private property and can forbid anyone from entering just like any other home owner can.
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  #36  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2020, 8:42 PM
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^ as far as i know the residents pay for street and sidewalk maintenance, but there has to be some sort of easement that encompasses the street and sidewalk or else residents would be trespassing on each other's property when they walk or drive anywhere. i.e. individual residents don't "own" the street and sidewalk in front of their houses.
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  #37  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2020, 8:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
I'm lost. How can a street be private? Are these actual streets or more lane ways for gated communities where the land is strata and not freehold?
A "private" street is not maintained by any government entity; I would assume a homeowner's association pays for street maintenance of a private street neighborhood, or individual property owners pay for their section of the street.

That being said, whether a street is private or not, I think it still might be open for public access, but I don't know the laws. I don't doubt that the laws differ among the various states.

When a community/neighborhood is gated, I would assume obviously that it's not open to the public (I really hate gated communities) and all the streets within are private, and you're only allowed to be there if you live there or are visiting someone who does, or are making a delivery.

However, there are neighborhoods with private streets that are NOT gated, and don't even have "NO TRESPASSING" signs.

Here's an example in my town: https://www.google.com/maps/@34.1124...4!8i8192?hl=en

When my partner and I first moved to South Pasadena (gosh, like 22 years ago already!), this neighborhood didn't have any gate, and on our walks, we would walk through here with no problem. Some years later they installed a remote-controlled gate, but it's only for cars---pedestrians can still enter the street. As you can see, there's only one sign that says "PRIVATE STREET," nothing about no trespassing or anything like that. I assume they want to limit cars to limit wear and tear on the street surface, but they allow people to walk through. As you can see, the gate is only to hinder vehicles; it doesn't even extend across the whole width of the street. Pedestrians can still use the sidewalk.

In another part of South Pasadena is this neighborhood:https://www.google.com/maps/@34.1240...2!8i6656?hl=en

This area was created in the very early 1900s; I wouldn't doubt that maybe this started out as a private street, but it's public now. The street is maintained by the City. BTW those portals/gates are referred to as the "Oaklawn Portals," and have been landmarked, as the portals and bridge at the other end of the street were designed by the Greene and Greene architects, noted for their Craftsman homes.

So then, if a private street is ungated with an absence of "NO TRESPASSING/RESIDENTS ONLY" signs, do you think the public should be able to walk through? In my opinion, they should.
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Last edited by sopas ej; Jul 29, 2020 at 1:27 PM.
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  #38  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2020, 9:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
They are streets that more or less fall in line with the city grid, but have gateway features or actual gates at each end. The street is held by the owners along it. New Orleans had a few as well, and (I think) San Francisco, they were quite the rage among robber barons in the Victorian era.

I'm not sure how the street is 'owned' from a legal perspective, I'm guessing there is some kind of homeowners association or co-op structure that owns the "street parcel". Or potentially each homeowner owns half the street and grants cross-easements to his neighbor for access. Underground utilities are an easement granted to the city or the various utility companies.
San Francisco does have some "private streets," and at least one private cul-de-sac is fancy like the street these gun-toting Karens live on, but most in SF are, according to the Chronicle (via curbed), “dead-end alleys, access streets providing parking for apartment complexes, industrial park side streets and nondescript frontage roads."
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  #39  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2020, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by The North One View Post
*sigh* Pedestrian derails yet another thread with his right-wing garbage.
Why don't you come out with a counterpoint rather than simply dismiss his opinion as 'garbage'?
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  #40  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2020, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
Why don't you come out with a counterpoint rather than simply dismiss his opinion as 'garbage'?
Because he's a known right-wing troll (who's been banned before) that you refuse to get rid of and I refuse to entertain. I'm not wasting my time and several other people have already countered him.
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