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  #6261  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2019, 3:55 PM
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Originally Posted by CherryCreek View Post
I'm all for historic preservation, but preserving the "historic" mortuary in the Berkley neighborhood? (One that looks like it could have been built last year in Highlands Ranch?).

No thank you.
I'm all for the density at this location, just wish they could vary the look of these townhomes more. More of a Philadelphia/DC rowhome look like what Koelbel is doing at 16th & Vine.

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  #6262  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2019, 5:58 PM
Robert.hampton Robert.hampton is offline
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Originally Posted by BG918 View Post
I'm all for the density at this location, just wish they could vary the look of these townhomes more. More of a Philadelphia/DC rowhome look like what Koelbel is doing at 16th & Vine.

Yeah they should have at least released some inspired, completely unrealistic renderings to get people excited before dropping a full city-block's worth of monotonous Sloans Lake-style garbaggio on everyone.
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  #6263  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2019, 6:02 PM
Robert.hampton Robert.hampton is offline
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I notice both of these renderings for 17th (at Pearl and Washington) have 17th as a 2 way street. Anyone know if this is actually in the works? Seems super unlikely after 19th and 20th were converted, but that would be quite the change for the neighborhood.
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  #6264  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2019, 7:08 PM
Curtis Park Curtis Park is offline
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Originally Posted by Robert.hampton View Post

I notice both of these renderings for 17th (at Pearl and Washington) have 17th as a 2 way street. Anyone know if this is actually in the works? Seems super unlikely after 19th and 20th were converted, but that would be quite the change for the neighborhood.
The rendering for the one across from Avenue Grill correctly shows 17th Ave as one way, with white dotted lines instead of yellow. So the car is just driving the wrong way, presumably after drinking too much at the Avenue Grill. I can't tell what color the lines are on the other rendering. But no, there are no plans to convert these couplets.
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  #6265  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2019, 7:22 PM
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There are no immediate plans to convert 17th/18th to two-ways.
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  #6266  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2019, 9:06 PM
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When I met with public works a couple of months ago, it wasn't something that they were considering anytime soon and would be a pretty big undertaking with many stakeholders. I did my best to try to get it on the East Central Area Plan, though.
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  #6267  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2019, 12:55 AM
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When I met with public works a couple of months ago, it wasn't something that they were considering anytime soon and would be a pretty big undertaking with many stakeholders. I did my best to try to get it on the East Central Area Plan, though.
Wow! You've got to be kidding me. Let's intentionally cause gridlock in Uptown. Great idea Dirt!
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  #6268  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2019, 12:26 PM
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I couldn't give two shits about gridlock in Uptown. I just want to feel like I'm not going to die every time I cross one of these streets. I can count all the proper crosswalks on one hand and lost count the number of times I had to fucking frogger it.
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  #6269  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2019, 2:23 PM
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[QUOTE=The Dirt;8631406]I couldn't give two shits about gridlock in Uptown. I just want to feel like I'm not going to die every time I cross one of these streets. I can count all the proper crosswalks on one hand and lost count the number of times I had to fucking frogger it.[/QUOTE


Exactly, Dirt.


This is a good example of implementing the new Blueprint Denver, which says:


"On all streets, prioritize people walking and rolling over other modes of transportation."


Additionally, Blueprint Denver's Future Multimodal Network map shows 17th and 18th through Uptown categorized as "Pedestrian and Transit" modal priority.


Both 17th and 18th in Uptown have three through lanes and two parking lanes. That's a total of 10 lanes to work with. Just as a fast example, you could remove all on-street parking (storing a person's private vehicle on public land is dead last priority), put in a 24/7 dedicated bus lane and one car lane in one direction, and two car lanes in the opposite direction on both avenues, with room leftover to do bulb outs and widen the sidewalks. This would maintain existing vehicle capacity (three lanes in each direction across both avenues), prioritize transit with a dedicated bus lane for the Route 20, and improve the pedestrian environment with better infrastructure and substantially slowing down traffic which would come as a result of two-waying the avenues.
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  #6270  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2019, 4:08 PM
mojiferous mojiferous is offline
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Originally Posted by DenverInfill View Post
Both 17th and 18th in Uptown have three through lanes and two parking lanes. That's a total of 10 lanes to work with. Just as a fast example, you could remove all on-street parking (storing a person's private vehicle on public land is dead last priority), put in a 24/7 dedicated bus lane and one car lane in one direction, and two car lanes in the opposite direction on both avenues, with room leftover to do bulb outs and widen the sidewalks. This would maintain existing vehicle capacity (three lanes in each direction across both avenues), prioritize transit with a dedicated bus lane for the Route 20, and improve the pedestrian environment with better infrastructure and substantially slowing down traffic which would come as a result of two-waying the avenues.
With the added benefit (I'm being serious here) of slowing down the commute of people who insist on living further out and driving into downtown. AND force them to pay for parking. Hopefully encouraging them to take transit and definitely to demand better transit from their neighborhoods instead of relying on the 1960s ideal of "I live in Aurora and expect to get downtown in 10 minutes on surface streets".
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  #6271  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2019, 5:29 PM
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Renderings are often done by people without much clue about the neighborhood, often by third parties.
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  #6272  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2019, 5:29 PM
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Originally Posted by The Dirt View Post
I couldn't give two shits about gridlock in Uptown. I just want to feel like I'm not going to die every time I cross one of these streets. I can count all the proper crosswalks on one hand and lost count the number of times I had to fucking frogger it.
Weird. I've never had a problem crossing those streets. The cars are bunched together due to the light timing. You wait for the bunch to go by, then you cross. You're being overly dramatic. You seem to forget we both live in the same city so I know what those streets are actually like. (I used to live in City Park West.)

Also, on those rare occasions when one must frogger it, a one-way street is much easier than a two-way. No? Colfax. Now that's a difficult street to cross. I hate crossing that damn street.

I used to be a part of the cult. I used to be an anti-car urbanist. I'm still all for as much density as possible. I would still love to see a robust transit system that's convenient, clean, comfortable and civilized, (not a patchwork that's overrun with homeless people). I would love to see it replace cars. I would ditch my car and use it every day if it existed. I'm still the kind of person for whom, living in a neighborhood that isn't walkable is absolutely not an option. But the fact is, I live in a town that is difficult to get around in without a motor vehicle. People still need their cars. They need a way to get them in and out of the city. They need a place to store them.

The east side of town doesn't have a freeway like 6th Ave to get people in and out. The closest thing we have are those one-way's with the timed lights. If you get rid of those, there will be gridlock. I can't even imagine it. The traffic is already horrible as it is. We'd all be less mobile, and we'd be breathing in a hell of a lot more pollution.

I'm going to say this one last time: If you want a better public transit system, then build a better public transit system. I'm all in! Raise my taxes! But actively disincentivizing the use of motor vehicles and intentionally making it more difficult for people to use and store them, in the hopes that it will eventually force people to use alternative modes of transportation, DEGRADES OUR OVERALL TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM AND MAKES IT MORE DIFFICULT, IN GENERAL, FOR EVERYONE TO GET AROUND. It hurts our economy. It increases pollution.

And one last thing (that I'm keenly aware of because I'm a truck driver, but seemingly every person on the planet that doesn't work in transportation is completely oblivious to): Every goddamn physical object you have ever owned/consumed/purchased in your life - whether it be a pair of shoes or a banana - came to you on a truck. Perhaps it made part of it's journey via rail, or air, or steamship, but at some point it was on a truck. Next time you're sitting in traffic on I-70, look around at how many trucks there are.
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  #6273  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2019, 5:30 PM
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Originally Posted by mojiferous View Post
With the added benefit (I'm being serious here) of slowing down the commute of people who insist on living further out and driving into downtown. AND force them to pay for parking. Hopefully encouraging them to take transit and definitely to demand better transit from their neighborhoods instead of relying on the 1960s ideal of "I live in Aurora and expect to get downtown in 10 minutes on surface streets".
Wow.
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  #6274  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2019, 5:41 PM
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Originally Posted by mhays View Post
Renderings are often done by people without much clue about the neighborhood, often by third parties.
Yeah, I see them get the direction of traffic wrong all the time. Sometimes the streets are too wide or too skinny. Sometimes the randomly placed pedestrians are nonsensical and humorous.
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  #6275  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2019, 5:43 PM
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I guess since I work in Commerce City, I need to move to that hell-hole instead of living where I want.
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  #6276  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2019, 8:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Sam Hill View Post
Weird. I've never had a problem crossing those streets. The cars are bunched together due to the light timing.
This is the BEST comment so far this year and we're already half-way through. It's well-reasoned, humane, reality-based and sensible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Hill View Post
I'm going to say this one last time: If you want a better public transit system, then build a better public transit system. I'm all in! Raise my taxes! But actively disincentivizing the use of motor vehicles and intentionally making it more difficult for people to use and store them, in the hopes that it will eventually force people to use alternative modes of transportation, DEGRADES OUR OVERALL TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM AND MAKES IT MORE DIFFICULT, IN GENERAL, FOR EVERYONE TO GET AROUND. It hurts our economy. It increases pollution.
I couldn't have said it better; count me in!!

Consider that next year Denver/RTD will enter their 3rd decade of trying to get BRT-style transit improvements along East Colfax. They've just begone to studying BRT-style transit improvements along Federal Blvd. How many more decades will that take?

Dedicated lanes can be a dicey proposition. Without frequent buses moving along these lanes you'll end up with poor compliance as people will flat out rebel against a lane just sitting their empty. Who could blame them?
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  #6277  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2019, 9:05 PM
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I guess since I work in Commerce City, I need to move to that hell-hole instead of living where I want.
Well yes, there is admittedly this growing group who have a very elitist vision of Denver as some Euro-Utopian Village. Anyone who doesn't fit the mold is unwelcome. Sadly, I've always viewed Denver/downtown as a very welcoming place; perhaps that's now an antiquated notion.

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Temporary homes for the dead > Permanent homes for the living
Btw, Congrats!
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  #6278  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2019, 9:50 PM
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Sometimes preservation works out for the best


Photo courtesy Kevin J. Beaty/Denverite

The historic church at Colfax and Columbine changed hands to house 2 churches
July 12, 2019 By Esteban L. Hernandez Denverite
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The 22,295-square-foot building was built in 1930 and sits on a busy intersection on Colfax near East High School, the Carla Madison Recreation Center, Twist & Shout and Tattered Cover Bookstore.
Yesterday was a Good News Day

Park Hill Golf Club sells to Denver developer for $24 million
Jul 12, 2019 By Andrew Dodson – Reporter, Denver Business Journal
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A Denver developer can now officially tee up a 155-acre project, but it’s going to require some steady convincing of neighbors who live nearby.

The size of the development is significant. At 155 acres, it’s one of the last large open spaces in the city, making it ripe for development. But residents who live near the course are expected to fight back on development they feel might not fit with the neighborhood,
What's the plan, the plan?
Quote:
...Andrew Klein, president and founder of Westside, told Denver Business Journal last month... “With any development, there are always people who don’t want it, especially on a piece like this,” Klein said. “It’s an amazing piece of ground and we’re going to be on a listening tour with the community to figure out what would be the best use out there.”

On Thursday, Klein said he’s considering “affordable and diverse housing options,” along with open space and recreation uses.
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  #6279  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2019, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
Well yes, there is admittedly this growing group who have a very elitist vision of Denver as some Euro-Utopian Village. Anyone who doesn't fit the mold is unwelcome. Sadly, I've always viewed Denver/downtown as a very welcoming place; perhaps that's now an antiquated notion.
I now realize my Commerce City comment should have been surrounded by context instead of left dangling out there on its own. (I was going to edit it into a previous post, but didn't see an easy way to quickly do that so I just threw it out there and hoped people would get it.)

It was more about this notion urbanists try to impose on others that instead of living far from where you work and thinking you're entitled to an easy commute via personal automobile, you should live closer to where you work and figure out how to get there without a car.

It doesn't work for most people for so many reasons. I don't know exactly who works in those skyscrapers downtown -- lawyers and accountants and such I suppose -- but most people don't work there. Most people are like me. Also, we can't forget, even today with all the increased desire for urban living, most people still prefer the suburbs. They have a right to live there and they have a right to take a job downtown if they want to. And let's not also forget that many of them can't even afford to live near downtown. It's expensive. And then there are those who can afford it but consider it absurd to spend so much money for so little space.

It would be nice if we could find a way to get most of them (or many more of them at least) taking "the train" to their jobs instead of driving. But alas, we can't agree on the best way to make that happen and end up in another chicken/egg debate.
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  #6280  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2019, 6:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Sam Hill View Post
I don't know exactly who works in those skyscrapers downtown -- lawyers and accountants and such I suppose -- but most people don't work there.
I worked there for a while as a nobody in a big firm. I know numerous people who work(ed) there. None of them are lawyers or accountants. They were database programmers, architects, drafters, engineers, secretaries. Pretty much the exact same people who work in all the non-skyscrapers.
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