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  #3561  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2019, 11:17 PM
Dale Dale is offline
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Alexandria, VA is 171 miles south of Staten Island... is it southern?
Charlotte is becoming less and less Southern. Just today a lady apologized for her drawl. So I had to chastise her and enjoin her to keep South alive.
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  #3562  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2019, 11:30 PM
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Someone (but not me) should start a thread in City Discussions about the definition of the SE U.S. It should go just as well as previous attempts at defining the Midwest or the Southwest.
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  #3563  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2019, 12:13 AM
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Someone (but not me) should start a thread in City Discussions about the definition of the SE U.S. It should go just as well as previous attempts at defining the Midwest or the Southwest.
I think those threads have existed before, and the ultimate conclusion is essentially... TBD. haha... Personally, I really don't see why it matters all that much where we draw hard lines, especially given the fact that the lines are blurred the closer you get to the "border" anyway. In my previous post I was just playing devil's advocate.
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  #3564  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2019, 12:45 AM
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From the OX BLUE construction cams for the Asurion project...



And from what I hear, there may be three or four more significant projects on the drawing board that would be included in this view in addition to the Nashville Yards proposals.
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  #3565  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2019, 1:41 AM
Plasticman Plasticman is offline
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Being from Tennessee and living near Atlanta I enjoy going on here and seeing what is an amazing number of huge projects. But please....please.....can somebody update that darned diagrams page? Fifth & Broadway is all but done and still “proposed” on there. Four Seasons isn’t on it at all, Broadwest, Amazon, and literally dozens of high rise projects aren’t mentioned at all. And the drawings are non-existent even on projects completed years ago.
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  #3566  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2019, 2:18 AM
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Being from Tennessee and living near Atlanta I enjoy going on here and seeing what is an amazing number of huge projects. But please....please.....can somebody update that darned diagrams page? Fifth & Broadway is all but done and still “proposed” on there. Four Seasons isn’t on it at all, Broadwest, Amazon, and literally dozens of high rise projects aren’t mentioned at all. And the drawings are non-existent even on projects completed years ago.
Yeah, the Nashville diagrams page is a joke and hasn't been updated in years as far as I can tell. Just a rough guess, but there are probably at least hundred or more qualifying already constructed buildings missing from that diagram. That is to say nothing of all the proposals and U/C projects.
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  #3567  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2019, 1:28 PM
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Has Nashville overtaken Austin as America’s “It City” ?
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  #3568  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2019, 5:19 PM
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Has Nashville overtaken Austin as America’s “It City” ?
Eh, personally I like to think it has simply joined the ranks of other so-called "it cities," like Austin.
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  #3569  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2019, 4:39 AM
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Recently went through the inner loop of the city and what amazed me the most was the density more than anything else. For a city it's size it felt much bigger and grander than it actually is. I believe metro Nashville is at 2 million now but it felt as is the population could push past 2.5 million-3 million. Though, once you get over 20 miles in any direction from downtown you could than see and start to actually believe why the actual population is only around 2 million and not 2.5-3 million. Another thing I liked about Nashville that's not all too visible in the southwest is the hilly terrain and how well the developers play with and around such geographic features. Also, what makes Nashville look so modern is the cleanliness. Nashville is one of those few cities that actually looks very clean.

Last edited by QuantumH2O; Oct 12, 2019 at 5:11 AM.
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  #3570  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2019, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by QuantumH2O View Post
Recently went through the inner loop of the city and what amazed me the most was the density more than anything else. For a city it's size it felt much bigger and grander than it actually is. I believe metro Nashville is at 2 million now but it felt as is the population could push past 2.5 million-3 million. Though, once you get over 20 miles in any direction from downtown you could than see and start to actually believe why the actual population is only around 2 million and not 2.5-3 million. Another thing I liked about Nashville that's not all too visible in the southwest is the hilly terrain and how well the developers play with and around such geographic features. Also, what makes Nashville look so modern is the cleanliness. Nashville is one of those few cities that actually looks very clean.
Even as a hyper homer, I realize the census data does not reconcile with the growing density and height. I have been to every one of the top 50 metros (except San Diego and Grand Rapids) and have a greater appreciation for the scope of Nashville's skyline as it stretches 30+ blocks through Midtown. The economics behind this over achieving have puzzled me.

A skyline picture from Midtown with some proposed and rising buildings added.


Part of the impetus for this level of development is obviously the transient population of multi-day tourists and conventioneers. This requires a lot of hotels and attractions. And there are a number of spec office buildings going up due to anticipation of a tech industry boom that could be a result of 'Amazon partners' expanding to the city.

And there is a metro area of nearly 300,000 (Clarksville) about 45 miles away which is neither included in the MSA or CMSA. But nevertheless Clarksville is an important neighbor to Nashville as its citizens visit Nashville's attractions and hospitals and sporting events in droves.

Midtown's growth is somewhat centered around Vanderbilt University's influence. You can never underestimate the powerhouse impact a major university like Vanderbilt has on a city.

Some years ago, someone published a map on-line (of which I have tried to retrieve again to no avail) that broke down U. S. cities by area of economic influence. In other words, it defined cities as regional and showed Nashville's E. I stretching to Chattanooga and Huntsville and up into Kentucky. Applying a similar construct to all cities, Nashville ranked 20th in size when this definition was applied to determining the size of a city based on it's economic influence. I know that without a link this is hard to appreciate, but at least to me, it was another way of putting into perspective the amazing growth in Nashville.

And yes, there are hills (up to 1,100 ft.) (A telephoto image, hills are a few miles away)

Last edited by MidTenn1; Oct 19, 2019 at 9:49 PM.
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  #3571  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2019, 5:47 AM
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Has Nashville overtaken Austin as America’s “It City” ?
It is definitely among America's "cool cities." Absolutely!

However, Nashville has yet to experience the population growth and real estate growth Austin has experienced for decades.
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  #3572  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2019, 8:13 PM
Texcitement Texcitement is offline
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It is definitely among America's "cool cities." Absolutely!

However, Nashville has yet to experience the population growth and real estate growth Austin has experienced for decades.
Yes, but that's coming. It's already started. I was at UT in the late 90s and remember how the boom was already well underway, but each year brought more and bigger developments. Austin has always been a denser city than even larger cities, so its growth just radiated out in rings. In the last 15 years they started to see the really tall downtown towers. Nashville tends to be less dense, and its boom started with the core. So now there's lots of area 5-10 miles out that are yet to get denser. It's already started in places like Berry Hill, Madison, Hermitage, Donelson, Green Hills and Nolensville/Dickerson Roads. But damn! Those areas are seeing a LOT of large urban style apartment buildings. The area around downtown could hold another 2 million residents without making the city seem too crowded. In good time.

Also, regarding the economic power of Nashville, I flew out of BNA today and just happened to notice all the license plates in the Terminal lots... Huntsville probably had the most out-of-state cars. Central Kentucky and Jefferson County KY had many cars. Of course, there were the Knox, Putnam, Shelby and even dozens of Ohio cars. I'm sure the London gateway has a lot to do with many of those folks using BNA.
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  #3573  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2019, 8:52 PM
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Yes, but that's coming. It's already started. I was at UT in the late 90s and remember how the boom was already well underway, but each year brought more and bigger developments. Austin has always been a denser city than even larger cities, so its growth just radiated out in rings. In the last 15 years they started to see the really tall downtown towers. Nashville tends to be less dense, and its boom started with the core. So now there's lots of area 5-10 miles out that are yet to get denser. It's already started in places like Berry Hill, Madison, Hermitage, Donelson, Green Hills and Nolensville/Dickerson Roads. But damn! Those areas are seeing a LOT of large urban style apartment buildings. The area around downtown could hold another 2 million residents without making the city seem too crowded. In good time.
"The area around downtown could hold another 2 million residents without making the city seem too crowded..." - You're joking, I hope. That is far from the truth.

Regarding Austin's growth, you're correct. It has always grown fast. Its metro population has doubled every 20-25 years from its incorporation in 1839. Its tech "boom" began when the that industry established a "base" there in the late 60's/early 70's. So, you are right, Austin's boom is not new - it's simply being maintained and expanding.

Also, Nashville has had a long history of being a bigger metro than Austin - until recently. And that gap is widening.

P.S., I too graduated from the University of Texas. 1997 to be exact.

Nashville will never be Austin. Conversely, Austin will never be Nashville. And that is a good thing. However, they both are two of the coolest cities in the U.S.!
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  #3574  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2019, 1:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ILUVSAT View Post
"The area around downtown could hold another 2 million residents without making the city seem too crowded..." - You're joking, I hope. That is far from the truth.

...

Nashville will never be Austin. Conversely, Austin will never be Nashville. And that is a good thing. However, they both are two of the coolest cities in the U.S.!
I should've been a bit more specific. I'm referring to the legacy residential areas with SFH's from the 1940s-80s in Davidson (Nashville) County, plus the surrounding counties that became suburban starting in the 1960s-70s. There's a lot of land. And that has to do with the older development methods that required substantially large yards in order to allow septic systems to work in the rocky ground. That technology has vastly improved to the point now where many more residential units can be built in the same space. Also the way the metro area grew from its early settlement allows a lot of developable land in those areas. Surrounding counties were traditionally rural, consisting of a county seat of some significant (not necessarily large) size. Those counties had their own population centers established long before growth began to encroach from Nashville. What that means is suburban areas like Madison, Hermitage, Donelson, Goodlettsville, Glencliff, Crieve Hall, Joelton, Whites Creek, etc. could double, even triple their population as denser development like Inglewood, Berry Hill, Bellevue, etc. has already started to get. Of course, the adjacent counties will continue to boom like they have the past 30 years. Areas like Mt. Juliet, Kingston Springs, Fairview, Robertson, and Rutherford counties will inevitably double/triple their populations. It's a long way of saying, Nashville is not so densely populated right now and it actually has a better infrastructure for the mid-ring (10-20 miles out) areas than inner-ring (0-10) and outer-ring (20+) areas.

We are glad that Austin and Nashville have their own identities. So many sunbelt cities today are indistinguishable from others. When I'm in either of those cities, I definitely know it.
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  #3575  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2019, 4:54 PM
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I should've been a bit more specific. I'm referring to the legacy residential areas with SFH's from the 1940s-80s in Davidson (Nashville) County, plus the surrounding counties that became suburban starting in the 1960s-70s. There's a lot of land. And that has to do with the older development methods that required substantially large yards in order to allow septic systems to work in the rocky ground. That technology has vastly improved to the point now where many more residential units can be built in the same space. Also the way the metro area grew from its early settlement allows a lot of developable land in those areas. Surrounding counties were traditionally rural, consisting of a county seat of some significant (not necessarily large) size. Those counties had their own population centers established long before growth began to encroach from Nashville. What that means is suburban areas like Madison, Hermitage, Donelson, Goodlettsville, Glencliff, Crieve Hall, Joelton, Whites Creek, etc. could double, even triple their population as denser development like Inglewood, Berry Hill, Bellevue, etc. has already started to get. Of course, the adjacent counties will continue to boom like they have the past 30 years. Areas like Mt. Juliet, Kingston Springs, Fairview, Robertson, and Rutherford counties will inevitably double/triple their populations. It's a long way of saying, Nashville is not so densely populated right now and it actually has a better infrastructure for the mid-ring (10-20 miles out) areas than inner-ring (0-10) and outer-ring (20+) areas.

We are glad that Austin and Nashville have their own identities. So many sunbelt cities today are indistinguishable from others. When I'm in either of those cities, I definitely know it.
Nice comments, but Kingston Springs may be actually declining in population.

There is no room for subdivision development as most of the land in southern Cheatham County, which is very hilly, is developed in 1 to 5 acre lots and there are no large swaths of land to put a large amount of housing.
The population that moved there in the 70's during the original burst of growth is now seniors and empty nesters. So the school population is also in decline. And there are no apartments for younger people and families to live in so they leave for elsewhere. The restaurant chains will not locate here as they cannot find help.

Admittedly, this is an aberration when compared to the rest of the Nashville suburban area, but I thought I would note that anyway.
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  #3576  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2019, 5:32 PM
Texcitement Texcitement is offline
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Nice comments, but Kingston Springs may be actually declining in population.

There is no room for subdivision development as most of the land in southern Cheatham County, which is very hilly, is developed in 1 to 5 acre lots and there are no large swaths of land to put a large amount of housing.
The population that moved there in the 70's during the original burst of growth is now seniors and empty nesters. So the school population is also in decline. And there are no apartments for younger people and families to live in so they leave for elsewhere. The restaurant chains will not locate here as they cannot find help.

Admittedly, this is an aberration when compared to the rest of the Nashville suburban area, but I thought I would note that anyway.
Thanks for the correction. And I meant to say the area of Davidson County west of Bellevue and into Williamson. So maybe I covered that with Fairview. I realize that covers a vast area and as you noted, north of I-40 is very rugged. Does underscore how sparsely populated a lot of the metro area still is. Should have also included Wilson County. They're just now starting to boom and to their credit they're building the infrastructure to support it. I'm increasingly amazed by the corridor of enormous warehouses in Wilson along I-840. And Gallatin now is catching fire. So yes, there's lot of undevelopable land, but so much that can/will be in the next twenty years.
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  #3577  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2019, 9:37 PM
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Vanderbilt University is in the midst of rebuilding a lot of their campus from the ground up as evidenced by the rising gothic academic buildings on West End. But they are looking at a future where the car is no longer a necessity.

One start toward this goal is building housing for Grad students and faculty on newly acquired land on Broadway adjacent to the campus where they can walk to school. Some renders...



The campus...


It is not in scale with some of the other development in the neighborhood, but I wouldn't mind living there. It will be the epitome of the expression, 'Live, Work, & Play' as there are many great places to eat and wind down. Unfortunately, the tourists are discovering this hot neighborhood also. It is the birthplace of Nashville Hot Chicken also.


Last edited by MidTenn1; Oct 20, 2019 at 2:15 PM.
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  #3578  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2019, 8:15 AM
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Thanks for the correction. And I meant to say the area of Davidson County west of Bellevue and into Williamson. So maybe I covered that with Fairview. I realize that covers a vast area and as you noted, north of I-40 is very rugged. Does underscore how sparsely populated a lot of the metro area still is. Should have also included Wilson County. They're just now starting to boom and to their credit they're building the infrastructure to support it. I'm increasingly amazed by the corridor of enormous warehouses in Wilson along I-840. And Gallatin now is catching fire. So yes, there's lot of undevelopable land, but so much that can/will be in the next twenty years.
The lot sizes in Nashville's prewar suburbs are gigantic. There are 900 sq foot houses sitting on 60x200 lots all over the place. That's insanely large compared to just about anywhere in the North. Developers are feasting on these properties all over East Nashville, The Nations, etc. - usually replacing them with at least 2 houses, if not 4. But even that density is still low.
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  #3579  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2019, 10:46 PM
Texcitement Texcitement is offline
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The lot sizes in Nashville's prewar suburbs are gigantic. There are 900 sq foot houses sitting on 60x200 lots all over the place. That's insanely large compared to just about anywhere in the North. Developers are feasting on these properties all over East Nashville, The Nations, etc. - usually replacing them with at least 2 houses, if not 4. But even that density is still low.
Not exactly. There's the pre-1963 merger boundaries which are quite dense, especially for any Southern city. That area historically had 175K residents (ca 1960) which now are about double that (340k-400k). You can look at any block within a 1-3 miles from the core and see typically dense preWW2 housing with back alley access and sidewalks. It's beyond 5 miles out (places like Madison) that developed in the first boom after the war that show the effects of the rocky ground and car culture. Those are the areas to which I'm referring that are quickly densifying now. Then there are the surrounding counties that have continued to boom for the past 60 years. They have their own legacy layouts, denser around their core towns/county seats and commercial areas that have sprung up closer to Davidson County.
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  #3580  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2019, 4:48 AM
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Just wanted to share this epic skyline shot... unfortunately the quality is low due to it being from a helicopter traffic camera... but I guess that's also why it's such a great shot:

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