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  #1961  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2020, 7:05 PM
Ballister Ballister is offline
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Originally Posted by biggus diggus View Post
In Phoenix I have always voted on "we need money for this project, do you want to chip in?"

In OKC, at least the way locals explained it to me, they vote for "do you want to continue the sales tax so we can spend money on cool things later?"
As much as I cringe agreeing with biggus, I clearly understand the concept and would love to see it happen here. Instead of being presented as—this I what I want to build, give us money—rather— we have these funds, what would you like to see built? Genius.
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  #1962  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2020, 7:07 PM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is offline
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Interesting you couldn't help yourself and started out with an insulting comment but glad you agree.

I don't find the practice to be "genius" rather just thinking outside the box, something that I've rarely seen in politics! The idea of having a piggy bank to build things to increase quality of life shouldn't be an "outside the box" or "genius" concept.
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  #1963  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2020, 8:54 PM
Ballister Ballister is offline
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Originally Posted by biggus diggus View Post
Interesting you couldn't help yourself and started out with an insulting comment but glad you agree.

I don't find the practice to be "genius" rather just thinking outside the box, something that I've rarely seen in politics! The idea of having a piggy bank to build things to increase quality of life shouldn't be an "outside the box" or "genius" concept.
No, it’s not interesting that I insulted you. You often deserve outright insulting—I worded this to draw you out (so easy). And to prove my point with your passive-aggressive second sentence. I take it back, I don’t agree with you, cringeworthy narcissist.
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  #1964  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2020, 9:01 PM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is offline
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More name calling! Excellent. and "I worded this to draw you out" means what, exactly? That you're stirring it up purposefully to create conflict?

It's unbelievable to me how many members of this chat site are threatened by someone who thinks a little differently and resort to little defensive outbursts and name-calling. I guess the only thing more puzzling is why I keep engaging you all.
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  #1965  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2020, 9:26 PM
Ballister Ballister is offline
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Originally Posted by biggus diggus View Post
More name calling! Excellent. and "I worded this to draw you out" means what, exactly? That you're stirring it up purposefully to create conflict?

It's unbelievable to me how many members of this chat site are threatened by someone who thinks a little differently and resort to little defensive outbursts and name-calling. I guess the only thing more puzzling is why I keep engaging you all.
We all wonder why.
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  #1966  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2020, 12:04 AM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by biggus diggus View Post
More name calling! Excellent. and "I worded this to draw you out" means what, exactly? That you're stirring it up purposefully to create conflict?

It's unbelievable to me how many members of this chat site are threatened by someone who thinks a little differently and resort to little defensive outbursts and name-calling. I guess the only thing more puzzling is why I keep engaging you all.
Biggus, you are a self described old timer and somebody involved in downtown real estate for many many years.

IF there are issues with the patronage of downtown Phoenix, or you think the culture of this city or development of this city is sub par its a reflection of YOU and people LIKE YOU and your SOCIAL CIRCLE and BUSINESS ASSOCIATES.

Most of us are relatively young and not in the industry but people that have either grown up in the Phoenix metro or have moved here. Most of the older folks, as we all know, came here from other places and had no interest in the downtown, there is a reason why its going through its biggest building boom ever right now.

My point of jabbing you is to point out that if you are unhappy with the culture and civic pride in this city it isn't because of most of us on this forum, and its not because of you specifically but because of people like you and people you know.

Basically... you are preaching to the choir. If anything you should reach out to those contacts you know that are movers and shakers (allegedly) around town and be a booster for downtown. God knows we need it.
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  #1967  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2020, 2:16 AM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is offline
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I don't have any movers or shakers for friends, sorry. My friends are land bankers and c class apartment traders like me. I know a lot of people but knowing people is easy. Call up the guy who owns half the warehouse district in various LLC so he doesn't look like a land banker but is. I won't throw him under the bus, my point is any anger you have towards a guy like me is misdirected. We're just out here securing our retirements and creating some tax shelter for ourselves.
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  #1968  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2020, 2:25 AM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by biggus diggus View Post
my point is any anger you have towards a guy like me is misdirected. We're just out here securing our retirements and creating some tax shelter for ourselves.
My point isnt anger, my point is that you seem upset with general civic pride when literally everyone of your age group who had/have the money and resources and social connections to foment said civic pride are busy securing retirements and land-banking on a city you all clearly dont actually care about.

Your criticisms are of yourself
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  #1969  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2020, 12:51 AM
Phxguy Phxguy is offline
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From the Preserve PHX FB page today:

"Another loss in Downtown Phoenix.
This time it's the Wakelin Grocery Warehouse at 5th Ave and Jackson Street, a major core of the transportation and warehouse district. Actually shipping and distribution of goods and produce continued along the railroad line siding on Jackson Street well into the 1980s.

Built in 1913 the Wakelin building was the receiving and storage facility for the largest grocery store in early Phoenix. It then had several other storage uses over the years, including Barrows Furniture. The building was listed on the Phoenix Historic Property Register.

The demolition, while an unfortunate loss to the streetscape and contextual feel of the Warehouse District, is slightly more palatable than the demolition of the Steinegger Lodging House last week. Two recent owners had looked at rehabilitation options, but were daunted by the rigid concrete and steel frame of a building constructed to handle heavy loads.
The current owner looked at creating a storage facility, but had both economic challenges and weather damage. The owner had worked with the City of Phoenix Historic Preservation Office to the fullest extent of the Phoenix ordinance and during the one year waiting period was able to prove the building presented an economic hardship. That outcome is frustrating, but at least there was an effort and intent. The roof collapsed during a 2019 monsoon. It is Interesting that today's demolition occurred with dark clouds overhead.

The building will be torn down over the next few days. The future use of the lot is unclear. It may sadly remain vacant.
"

Their FB page has some photos of its demolition. https://www.facebook.com/PreservePHX
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  #1970  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2020, 4:20 PM
xymox xymox is offline
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Interesting list of ‘mega-projects’ still on the schedule for AZ - this includes infrastructure projects - i.e. I-11, SR-30 and the PHX-TUC High Speed Rail project.

http://azbex.com/ariz-maintaining-he...project-count/
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  #1971  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2020, 11:32 PM
Code5 Code5 is offline
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Originally Posted by xymox View Post
Interesting list of ‘mega-projects’ still on the schedule for AZ - this includes infrastructure projects - i.e. I-11, SR-30 and the PHX-TUC High Speed Rail project.

http://azbex.com/ariz-maintaining-he...project-count/
Holy crap, a high speed rail between Tucson and Phoenix makes my ears perk. This would be amazing.
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  #1972  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2020, 6:46 PM
0214685226 0214685226 is offline
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Originally Posted by xymox View Post
Interesting list of ‘mega-projects’ still on the schedule for AZ - this includes infrastructure projects - i.e. I-11, SR-30 and the PHX-TUC High Speed Rail project.

http://azbex.com/ariz-maintaining-he...project-count/
$4.5 billion for high speed rail between Phoenix and Tucson? That estimate seems extremely low. I don't think there is a real need, but the planning can't begin soon enough due to the long timelines associated with a huge infrastructure project like this. Just think about how long it took to finish the Loop system from planning to completion. We're looking at, at least, 25 to 35 years. By 2050, MAG is projecting a state population of 10.8 million people. Currently, Maricopa, Pinal and Pima counties account for about 82% of Arizona's population. Using that figure, there would be 8.8 million people in the Phoenix to Tucson corridor, probably enough to support a HSR line.
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  #1973  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2020, 7:58 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by 0214685226 View Post
$4.5 billion for high speed rail between Phoenix and Tucson? That estimate seems extremely low. I don't think there is a real need, but the planning can't begin soon enough due to the long timelines associated with a huge infrastructure project like this. Just think about how long it took to finish the Loop system from planning to completion. We're looking at, at least, 25 to 35 years. By 2050, MAG is projecting a state population of 10.8 million people. Currently, Maricopa, Pinal and Pima counties account for about 82% of Arizona's population. Using that figure, there would be 8.8 million people in the Phoenix to Tucson corridor, probably enough to support a HSR line.
Given growth rates Phoenix Metro alone will have close to 8 million by 2050. Phoenix-Tucson will have close to 10 million just between the two
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  #1974  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2020, 9:01 PM
0214685226 0214685226 is offline
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
Given growth rates Phoenix Metro alone will have close to 8 million by 2050. Phoenix-Tucson will have close to 10 million just between the two
Higher growth rates are better for large multi governmental infrastructure projects. Lower rates of growth or even rates that don't meet the higher side of projections, tend to kill projects. I'd prefer if we focused on lower projections.
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  #1975  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2020, 11:51 PM
ASU Diablo ASU Diablo is online now
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Report: Metro Phoenix will see a 37% drop in apartment construction

Hmmmm...not sure if COVID related or something else at play? Previous reports would demonstrate a need for apartment housing...

https://azbigmedia.com/real-estate/r...-construction/
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  #1976  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2020, 12:20 AM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Yeah that is from Rent Cafe and I just dont see how they come to that conclusion.

I guess this is either extrapolated or estimated based on covid lock downs or something? Or it could just be that there are less planned apartments for next year. IDK but I dont think that is a reflection of any change in demand.
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  #1977  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2020, 2:27 AM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is offline
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The apartment market has been nuts here for years and it was never going to last forever. There combination of a glut of like-kind apartments covid has made the drop look a little bigger but considering the rise it shouldn't be surprising. Apartment complexes in the middle-upper markets are already battling for tenants in some parts of Phoenix. They've got some time before the REITs start looking elsewhere, though. Am on the phone with a college friend who has worked for REIT managers at a somewhat high capacity.
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  #1978  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2020, 7:21 AM
TJPHXskyscraperfan TJPHXskyscraperfan is offline
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How can that be when there is more construction going on in Phoenix on apartments than ever before? I’m sure it will slow down but it didn’t even stop Toll Brothers on Thomas,lol.
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  #1979  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2020, 9:30 AM
azliam azliam is offline
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The statements that stand out to me are ones like:

The downtrend is mainly due to the slower pace of construction
Expected to add new apartments by the end of the year
The study is exclusively based on apartment data related to buildings containing 50 or more units
Confirmed and likely completions for 2020 based on the issuance of a certificate of occupancy.

Looking at current multifamily construction downtown alone, almost all are looking at a 2021 completion date or beyond.
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  #1980  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2020, 4:14 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Some Fun (Depending on how you look at it) Legal news.

Despite what your screeching family and friends on Facebook say, as they all became doctors and epidemiologists sometime back in April, States DO NOT have legal authority for this kind of lock down orders.

These types of lawsuits over COVID measures will go on for DECADES and will cost states BILLIONS. Oh man I wish I became an attorney they are going to clean up.

Decades from now we will be seeing late night commercials that say "Did you or a loved one forgo voluntary Treatment during the COVID pandemic" or "Were you are a loved one forced into bankruptcy during the COVID pandemic" my god it will never ever end.

More than 100 bar owners join lawsuit against Ducey


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More than 100 bar owners have joined a lawsuit against Gov. Doug Ducey, alleging his reasoning for closing them down for most of the summer is prejudicial.

When the lawsuit was filed in July, it included some 20 different bar owners making their plea to the state Supreme Court, but in the past month dozens of others have asked to joined.

“There has been a flood of new requests to join the lawsuit after the Aug. 10 guidelines were issued, because they’re onerous on the border of impossible to achieve,” said Ilan Wurman, the attorney representing the bar owners.

The Arizona Supreme Court will decide on Aug. 25 whether to take up the case or not. If the court chooses to hear the case, Wurman, who is a professor at the Sandra Day O’Connor College of Law at Arizona State University, said he would ask for an oral argument in September.

Battle over license type
All of the owners in the suit hold either Arizona series 6 or series 7 liquor licenses. In late June, Ducey issued a executive order that closed all Arizona bars operating with a series 6 or 7 license. The problem with that, Wurman said, is that operating with a series 6 or 7 license doesn’t necessarily mean the establishment is a dark, crowded bar with little ventilation.

“We don’t object to reasonable health measures, but the distinction between series 6 and 7 doesn’t track any sensible public health measure,” Wurman said. “It has nothing to do with whether a business owner can or can’t meet reasonable health measures.”

In Arizona there are a number of different types of liquor licenses and Wurman argues there is no logic in singling out just series 6 and series 7 owners. For example, series 3 are microbreweries, series 11 are hotel bars, series 12 are restaurants, series 13 are wineries and series 14 are private clubs — like the Elks or The Moose Lodge. Wurman said all the public health issues that face bar owners with a series 6 or 7 licenses holders faces these types of establishments too, but they have not been forced to close.

His biggest concern is for establishments with series 12 licenses. A series 12 license requires owners to make a certain amount of profit off food sales, but they still operate a bar area and sell liquor. Wurman said the only major difference between series 6 and 7 holders is that the owners pay a larger fee so they don’t have requirements to serve a certain amount of food and so they can sell alcohol that leaves the premises. But he said many of these establishments look just like the restaurants with series 12 licenses, some even have the word “restaurant” in their name.

“The distinction between series six and seven on the one hand it’s series 12, on the other is lazy at best,” Wurman said. “At worst it’s a corrupt attempt by the governor to help his friends in the restaurant industry.”

Wurman pointed out that Ducey already relaxed rules during the pandemic to help businesses with series 12 licenses. He allowed restaurants to start selling alcohol to-go, which many restaurants have said helped their businesses stay afloat during this trying time. But Wurman alleges the move hurt series 6 and 7 licensees because customers went instead to get alcohol from restaurants.

Not happy with reopening policy
Bar owners are not the only businesses that have taken Ducey to court over his order to close certain businesses to slow the spread of Covid-19. Numerous gym owners have and the Arizona Capitol Times reported on Aug. 18 that a Mesa water park operator is suing the governor in federal court.

Because of a court ruling in one of the gym cases, the Ducey administration and the Arizona Department of Health Services announced the state’s plan for bars, gyms and movie theaters to reopen. When counties hit certain benchmarks with a number of Covid-19 related metrics these businesses can start a phased opening process. But bars by far have the longest road ahead.

If bars can show that they are primarily restaurants with food service, ADHS will start letting some of them operate in that capacity. But not until there is a 3% positivity rate for Covid-19 tests will bars with 6 and 7 licenses be allowed to operate the way they did before, and even then it will be at 50% capacity. Wurman said many of these businesses won’t be able to survive staying closed that long.

So far, some 40 Arizona bars have been denied in their bid to reopen by ADHS, which is fielding hundreds of applications from gyms, bars and movie theaters seeking to restart operations.

ADHS Director Dr. Cara Christ said that she couldn’t imagine a world where bars are allowed to fully reopen until after there is a vaccine for Covid-19 available.

“If that’s the standard there will be no bars left in Arizona,” Wurman said. “It’s just so utterly insane and ignorant of them to say that’s the standard.”

To make that point, bar owners involved in the lawsuit organized a protest for Thursday afternoon at the Arizona Capitol. They are calling it the “Not Our Last Call Rally.”

Unlike other protests over against Ducey’s restrictions during Covid-19, the organizers of this rally are calling for attendees to wear masks and socially distance.

Other argument
Besides the argument that there is little difference between license types, Wurman is also arguing to the Supreme Court that Ducey might not have the authority to keep enacting rules like this.

In the spring, Ducey declared a state of emergency in the state of Arizona, and with that declaration he has justified a number of executive orders. Wurman said that Ducey basically turned himself into a lawmaker.

“It can’t be true that the emergency statute gives the governor authority for the foreseeable future to decide on a wide range of important policy questions involving the social and economic effects of the coronavirus,” Wurman said. “It can’t be that he has total power for the foreseeable future so long as he deems there to be an emergency.”
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