[Dartmouth] The Finch (22 Dawson Street) | ? m | 6 - 35 fl | U/C

Dmajackson · #1 Posted **Jun 27, 2019, 1:42 AM**

That is not a typo. This is a real proposal by W.M. Fares for central Dartmouth.

Halifax Planning Case #22344

The idea is for six mid-rise buildings and one high-rise on the vacant lands fronting Wyse, Faulkner, Williams, and Dawson. This includes 17'000 sq ft of commercial in the high-rise podium on Wyse Road, and 676 residential units.

alps · #2 Posted **Jun 27, 2019, 2:13 AM**

Great! I have wondered about those vacant lots for a long time. Does anyone know what was there before?

This is the perfect area for walkable, high density redevelopment (it reminds me of Young Street in that regard – good transit and lots of underused/vacant lots). There will soon be a protected cycling route all the way to downtown Halifax, and the site is close to the bus terminal and opposite a supermarket. It's also near schools and the newly renovated Sportsplex. I don't want to own a car, and if I moved back I would be happy to live there.

I wish the shorter buildings were more varied in height and massing, and the site plan is a bit boring.

Colin May · #3 Posted **Jun 27, 2019, 2:49 AM**

There were many detached homes on MU2 & 3 on narrow lots and kids went to Bicentennial, or Northbrook or Notting Park school that was at Wyse & Boland. Easy walking distance. The decline in school age children will not be arrested by 6 storey apartment buildings.
MU 2,3 & part of 4 should return to the previously narrow lots to provide housing for families. Ghoshn can make his money many times over on the remaining lots.

alps · #4 Posted **Jun 27, 2019, 8:16 AM**

I found this extremely uninspired render...

(source)

Keith P. · #5 Posted **Jun 27, 2019, 10:45 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by alps

Great! I have wondered about those vacant lots for a long time. Does anyone know what was there before?

This is the perfect area for walkable, high density redevelopment (it reminds me of Young Street in that regard – good transit and lots of underused/vacant lots). There will soon be a protected cycling route all the way to downtown Halifax, and the site is close to the bus terminal and opposite a supermarket. It's also near schools and the newly renovated Sportsplex. I don't want to own a car, and if I moved back I would be happy to live there.

I wish the shorter buildings were more varied in height and massing, and the site plan is a bit boring.

For a time in the '60s the site was occupied by Halliday Craftsmen, a local building supply operation that disappeared, I believe sometime in the '70s. The building remained for a while but that lot has been empty for many years.

I looked at the rendering posted and wonder why the tall building is not in the middle of the lot instead of fronting on Wyse. The rest of the buildings look dangerously like future slums. I'm not at all sure of this one. It is a neighborhood that has been struggling for decades and will take a lot to make it pull itself up.

atbw · #6 Posted **Jun 27, 2019, 12:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith P.

The rest of the buildings look dangerously like future slums. I'm not at all sure of this one. It is a neighborhood that has been struggling for decades and will take a lot to make it pull itself up.

I feel like the main tower has the potential to be interesting, but is really out of context aside from 99 Wyse Road. The small buildings really are boring. Smaller lots and more townhouse-style buildings would help this one fit into the neighbourhood better. I absolutely see the 'future slum' look you're referring to.

IanWatson · #7 Posted **Jun 27, 2019, 12:34 PM**

This application looks like a bit of a rush to beat Centre Plan. And unless Centre Plan allows for consideration of DAs already under application (I can't recall at the moment, and don't have the time right now to go digging), this application will be dead when Council gives First Reading to Centre Plan at the end of July. I believe Centre Plan conceives of 27 storeys fronting on Wyse.

Colin May · #8 Posted **Jun 27, 2019, 12:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanWatson

This application looks like a bit of a rush to beat Centre Plan. And unless Centre Plan allows for consideration of DAs already under application (I can't recall at the moment, and don't have the time right now to go digging), this application will be dead when Council gives First Reading to Centre Plan at the end of July. I believe Centre Plan conceives of 27 storeys fronting on Wyse.

A completed application submitted prior to approval of the Centre Plan will proceed under the existing rules. This will go to a public consultation and then a public hearing at HEMDCC. It should be rejected because Soviet style housing is a blight.

OldDartmouthMark · #9 Posted **Jun 27, 2019, 1:34 PM**

Not the best proposal I've ever seen, but I'm inclined to say that any development is better than leaving them as empty lots, as they have been for years. Still, I would prefer to see a better development there, especially at the prominent-ish entrance of the bridge.

In regards to what was there before, here's an aerial photograph from NS Archives. It's undated, but I would say mid to late 1960s. If you go to the link for the photo you can zoom in and see the Halliday's building supply store that Keith was referring to. Over the years since the photo was taken, a number of the buildings shown have been torn down and the lots left vacant.

Link to zoomable photo

Here's another angle:

Link to pic source at NS archives

Colin May · #10 Posted **Jun 27, 2019, 2:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Not the best proposal I've ever seen, but I'm inclined to say that any development is better than leaving them as empty lots, as they have been for years. Still, I would prefer to see a better development there, especially at the prominent-ish entrance of the bridge.

In regards to what was there before, here's an aerial photograph from NS Archives. It's undated, but I would say mid to late 1960s. If you go to the link for the photo you can zoom in and see the Halliday's building supply store that Keith was referring to. Over the years since the photo was taken, a number of the buildings shown have been torn down and the lots left vacant.

[URL="https://novascotia.ca/archives/NSIS/archives.asp?ID=2449"]Link to zoomable photo[/URL

Here's another angle:

Link to pic source at NS archives

Great link Mark.
The old 2 storey homes are clearly visible, especially on the zoomable link. Some were low income rentals but anyone one who takes the time to look uo the street directories available in the library will see how many people lived in the area.
Ghosn bought the 25 commercial and residential lots for $3,000,000 on January 31 2018 including the lots bounded by Dickson,Lyle, Williams and Faulkner. And all lots from 24 Dawson to Wyse Road and from 17 Faulkner to Wyse Road.

Jstaleness · #11 Posted **Jun 27, 2019, 2:42 PM**

I'm a fan of the tower fronting right on to Wyse Rd. It gives that portion of downtown a larger feel and compliments Metropolitan Place. I agree with Keith in that I think the design of the smaller buildings are wrong. Not sure that they'll be a slum necessarily but the design already looks dated. I'd like there to be just a few higher buildings instead of the 5 proposed short ones, but i feel like it's being done to preserve views of the water and downtown Halifax. That was my neighborhood for years so I'd love to see this.

Jonovision · #12 Posted **Jun 27, 2019, 4:14 PM**

While I love the idea of some big buildings on this site this looks incredibly rushed and horrible. Completely uninspired. I'd much rather see a variation in building height and size across the site with some interesting public space between them. This looks more like something out at Washmill Lake or Baker Drive.

I can usually get on board with something is better than nothing but I don't think I can for this one. Not without some drastic changes to it.

Edit
So that was an initial reaction but I have been reading through the application package and was very pleased to see this:

"Please note that due to the scale of this project and the number of buildings, we are proposing
that the development agreement include a schedule with provisions for site and architectural
design requirements. This approach will provide both, the control over built form and building
articulation which are required by policy, and some flexibility to the design professionals which
most likely will vary for each building. We will provide massing of the proposed built form and
sample projects during our presentation at the public information meeting."

This gives me hope that we can get to something a bit more reasonable.

someone123 · #13 Posted **Jun 27, 2019, 4:32 PM**

I bet the design will change significantly in a future iteration.

The current design is ugly and the single disproportionately tall tower is weird but if this had a great architectural design I think it could be a good proposal. This is a good spot for higher density development (which still won't work out to being that high density because of all the empty lots and large roadways nearby).

Querce · #14 Posted **Jun 28, 2019, 1:58 AM**

The tower is zoned under the Centre Plan as CEN-2, with a maximum FAR of 5.5.

Buildings 2,5,6, and 7 are zoned CEN-1, with maximum FAR of 2.75.

Buildings 3 and 4 are zone HR-1, with a maximum height of 20 m (~6 stories)

So buildings 2,5,6, and 7 could probably be brought up and the tower brought down, which is what I would prefer

worldlyhaligonian · #15 Posted **Jun 28, 2019, 3:36 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Querce

the tower brought down, which is what I would prefer

Why?

Honestly, they should maybe consider 42 stories to make up for the ridiculous amount of sprawl/empty lots in this area. This being said, I'd take three 20 story buildings over one 30+.

This part of Dartmouth is a nightmare mostly due to the low density. New Jersey of Halifax?

Keith P. · #16 Posted **Jun 28, 2019, 10:20 AM**

Those height limits show the folly of the Centre Plan.

Querce · #17 Posted **Jun 28, 2019, 5:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

Why?

Honestly, they should maybe consider 42 stories to make up for the ridiculous amount of sprawl/empty lots in this area. This being said, I'd take three 20 story buildings over one 30+.

This part of Dartmouth is a nightmare mostly due to the low density. New Jersey of Halifax?

adding more stories to one building does nothing to get rid of the sprawl/empty lots in this area.

Keith P. · #18 Posted **Jun 28, 2019, 6:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Querce

adding more stories to one building does nothing to get rid of the sprawl/empty lots in this area.

Sprawl? What are you talking about? It's as close to the center of the city as you can get. More like urban decay.

ns_kid · #19 Posted **Jun 29, 2019, 11:52 AM**

Am I alone in thinking the 35-storey tower is a loss leader, a clumsy red herring like Ralph Medjuck's fabled 40 storey tower in the aborted Salter Block project, a throw-away designed to divert attention from the merits (or lack thereof) of the rest of the project?

scryer · #20 Posted **Jun 29, 2019, 7:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ns_kid

Am I alone in thinking the 35-storey tower is a loss leader, a clumsy red herring like Ralph Medjuck's fabled 40 storey tower in the aborted Salter Block project, a throw-away designed to divert attention from the merits (or lack thereof) of the rest of the project?

I have a feeling myself that it is some sort of a diversion. However if it goes through then that is perfectly okay too

.

Basically I am hoping for the best and preparing for a "redesign".