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  #201  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2020, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Zerton View Post
I don't really like the idea of eminent domain, but this is one situation where it's completely justified imo.
agree completely. The passenger situation at Penn station is borderline dangerous. Something needs to be done. Additionally, we should be building tall near a main commuter hub.
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  #202  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2020, 2:13 AM
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agree completely. The passenger situation at Penn station is borderline dangerous. Something needs to be done. Additionally, we should be building tall near a main commuter hub.
When we look at the density around Grand Central, and the way the city has allowed that district to be reborn - with an EXPANDED Grand Central included in all of this (east side access) - there's no reason this can't and shouldn't be done with the Penn Station district. The city gets the credit for putting in place plans for Midtown East, and the Hudson Yards. But in the time since Cuomo announced his own plan to redevelop the area around Penn Station, and the city voiced some objections, it has done nothing to put forward a plan of its own. So I'm with Cuomo on this one. Get it done, and push past the city bureaucracy.



https://gothamist.com/news/cuomos-se...ocus-commuters

Cuomo's Second Penn Station Expansion Plan Will Actually Focus On Train Capacity

BY ELIZABETH KIM AND STEPHEN NESSEN, WNYC
JAN. 7, 2020


Quote:
Adding yet another costly wrinkle to the decades-in-the-making plan to remake Penn Station, Governor Andrew Cuomo on Monday laid out a rough blueprint to expand the overburdened station's capacity by acquiring an entire Manhattan block to build eight new tracks and accommodate an additional 175,000 daily riders.

...Every day, about 650,000 commuters elbow and weave their way through Penn Station, which sits below Madison Square Garden and serves four critical local and regional transportation lines: Amtrak, the Long Island Rail Road, the subways and New Jersey Transit. Amtrak, the owner of the station, has struggled over the years to maintain the tracks, with two derailments in 2017 that wreaked transportation havoc for days.
Quote:
But the redevelopment also requires state officials to negotiate and buy up properties, a typically time-consuming process, from owners including Amtrak and the Archdiocese of New York. The latter owns the roughly 150-year-old St. John the Baptist Roman Catholic Church. The governor also said the state was looking into buying a portion of MSG, currently the Hulu Theater, on Eighth Avenue, to build a new entrance for the station.

One of the immediate casualties of the plan appears to be Tracks Raw Bar & Grill, a Penn Station favorite likened to the fictitious TV bar Cheers, which might be forced to leave its new location on West 31st Street. The establishment moved in November after having to shutter their 17-year home inside Penn Station due to yet another station-related construction project.

“Upset is a good word,” co-owner Pat O’Brien told the Wall Street Journal. “I just want to stay here and earn a living.”
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  #203  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2020, 3:06 AM
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I was looking at the buildings south of Penn today. With the exception of maybe the church, there's not much there. If the area will eventually be redeveloped anyway, may as well use the opportunity to expand.

Anyway, this was worth a watch again.


Video Link
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  #204  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2020, 5:49 PM
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https://therealdeal.com/2020/02/03/e...-state-budget/

Eminent domain could be used for Penn Station plans thanks to clause in state budget
Gov. Cuomo last month announced plans to acquire private real estate to expand outdated transit hub






February 03, 2020


Quote:
New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo laid the groundwork for his ambitious new plan to redevelop Penn Station almost two years ago.

The governor included a clause in budget legislation that would allow the state to use eminent domain in the Penn Station neighborhood, according to the Wall Street Journal.

The language also instructed the state to fix these problems by starting to plan for the station and surrounding areas, which were not specified. Legal experts say the state could use this language to justify using eminent domain to carry out its plans.

Cuomo announced in January that he would look to acquire private real estate to expand Penn Station. The area in question spans 30th and 31st streets between Seventh and Eighth , and it includes a homeless shelter, a Roman Catholic church, restaurants, bars and offices.




https://www.wsj.com/articles/cuomos-...es-11580688000

Cuomo’s Penn Station Plans Echo Robert Moses
Clause in budget legislation would pave way for state to use eminent domain



By Jimmy Vielkind
Feb. 2, 2020


Quote:
New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s latest plan to redevelop Pennsylvania Station shows he really has become a 21st century Robert Moses—not just in dreaming big about infrastructure, but in tugging every available lever of power to move projects along.

The Democratic governor invoked Mr. Moses’ name when he announced in early January that the state would acquire the block just south of the existing rail hub, which sits below Madison Square Garden in Midtown Manhattan, to add an additional eight tracks and accommodate regional growth.

But Mr. Cuomo laid the seeds for the proposal nearly two years ago, when he slipped a clause into budget legislation that would pave the way for the state to use eminent domain in the area. It is a tactic reminiscent of Mr. Moses—who held enormous sway over public works in New York through various unelected positions from the 1920s through the 1960s.
Quote:
The area now being eyed for expansion—bounded by Seventh and Eighth avenues, 30th and 31st streets—includes offices, bars and restaurants, a homeless shelter and a Roman Catholic church that dates to 1840.

Assemblyman Richard Gottfried, a Democrat who represents parts of Manhattan, including Penn Station, said he had great reservations about the breadth of the language and feared it could be used for real-estate development on different blocks. The track expansion now on the table is less concerning, he said.
Quote:
In an interview after the governor’s presentation, Janno Lieber, chief development officer for the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, said the state didn’t have an estimate for how much the expansion would cost but planned to raise funds selling development rights over the new tracks as well as capturing some revenue from surrounding sites that could be up-zoned.

Officials at Empire State Development, the state’s economic development authority, haven’t ruled out the use of eminent domain but said they would work with the city and other stakeholders as the project moves forward. That could take more than two years, Mr. Lieber said.
Quote:
Mr. Cuomo said Thursday that the current station was a hellscape, and that people shouldn’t be concerned with his moves. He brushed aside concerns over eminent domain and said the state has done major developments in Manhattan, including Battery Park City. (It was built on landfill in the Hudson River.)

“We’re talking about one block. You could fit 20 of them, I’ll bet, in Battery Park City,” Mr. Cuomo said. “We can do good things. We can do big things. We’re not impotent—we’re New York. Welcome to the state.”
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  #205  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2020, 5:56 PM
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^ now if only that one block was msg lol.
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  #206  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2020, 6:32 PM
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^ now if only that one block was msg lol.
I believe that site has around 4 msf or so of development rights.
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  #207  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2020, 7:02 PM
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Cuomo’s Penn Station Plans Echo Robert Moses


And just like Robert Moses, big plans with big price tags are being done incorrectly.
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  #208  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2020, 10:14 PM
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Not to derail this thread but is there a thread for the potential cluster that could rise around a rebuilt PA Bus Terminal to the north of this site? Massing renders always show a wall of skyscrapers.
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  #209  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2020, 10:55 PM
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Not to derail this thread but is there a thread for the potential cluster that could rise around a rebuilt PA Bus Terminal to the north of this site? Massing renders always show a wall of skyscrapers.
There is a thread about the redevelopment of the terminal, but no specific plan for redevelopment at the moment. There have been massings and studies.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=206653
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  #210  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2020, 1:53 AM
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https://gothamist.com/news/madison-s...-straight-shot

Madison Square Garden Hasn’t Paid NY Property Taxes In 37 Years. Will Cuomo Make It Permanent?





BY NEIL DEMAUSE
JAN. 22, 2020


Quote:
The governor is proposing 40 percent more train capacity, airier concourses and unspecified new development in a "cohesive transit-oriented district." The plan also boasts an accordingly mammoth price tag: $8 billion to buy up an entire block of Midtown property, according to one estimate, most of which Cuomo hasn't yet identified specific funds for beyond the idea of siphoning off future retail rents and property taxes.

Meanwhile, sitting atop the now-buried train station is one of the state's biggest poster children for corporate tax giveaways: Madison Square Garden, which thanks to a state law passed at the behest of then-mayor Ed Koch in 1982 has now gone 37 consecutive years without paying property taxes. The total cost in lost revenue to the city over that time period is now $555 million, according to the latest calculations by the city's Independent Budget Office. If current property value trends continue, MSG's total tax break could clear $1 billion by 2030.
Quote:
It's an alarmingly high figure, made even more so by the fact that the tax break, first proposed by Koch in order to encourage the Knicks and Rangers to renovate rather than moving to New Jersey, was, according to the mayor, initially supposed to end after just ten years. ("I went to bed at night believing it was a 10-year abatement," Koch told the Times years later.)

In the decades since, MSG's eternal tax break has become a white whale for budget reformers and enraged Knicks fans alike; possible repeal has become a recurring feature of IBO's annual budget options documents offering ways to saving the city money.

Asked for an explanation of the continued need for the tax break, a Madison Square Garden spokesperson provided this statement to Gothamist: "We appreciate that people have their opinions about our location, but the truth is that Madison Square Garden’s tax abatement pales in comparison to the billions in public benefits received by the other New York sports venues.”
Quote:
Yet repeated proposals to put an end to the tax break in Albany — which controls virtually all of New York City's tax policies because that's how the state likes it — have gone nowhere. As a member of the State Assembly, Brian Kavanagh introduced bills to repeal the MSG tax break in 2013, 2015, and 2017, gaining the backing of other city-based state officials but never advancing out of committee. (Now a State Senator, Kavanagh has introduced similar legislation in the senate the last two years. It currently sits—you guessed it—in committee.)

The New York city council did pass a resolution in 2014, introduced by now-Council Speaker and likely 2021 mayoral candidate Corey Johnson, calling on the state to repeal the tax break, but it fell on deaf ears in Albany.

The decades-long inaction can partially be explained by the odd nature of the tax break: It's the city losing tax revenue as a result, but the city council has no say over state law. While the state legislature could repeal the law at any time, it's under little pressure to do so given that none of the money would go toward filling state budget holes.
Quote:
Neither Kavanagh nor Senator Brad Hoylman, who last year suggested repealing MSG's tax breaks and using the proceeds to fund the MTA, replied to Gothamist’s queries about the possibility of reviving such legislation, or about why repeal bills have gotten so little traction in Albany.

Johnson's office also did not reply directly to Gothamist questions on the topic, though a council spokesperson did say that "The Council will examine the issue of a special permit for Madison Square Garden when it comes up for review in 2023."

(MSG's operating permit that allows it to sit atop Penn Station is a separate issue, one that is within the city council's purview but which the council kicked ten years down the road the last time it came up for a renewal vote.)
Quote:
Cuomo's Penn Station expansion plan (which is at least the sixth iteration of an expansion plan since one was first floated by then-Senator Pat Moynihan in the early '90s) proposes another massive tax kickback, siphoning off untold billions of future property-tax dollars — technically payments in lieu of property taxes, or PILOTs—from an undisclosed area around the train station to pay for expansion of the transit complex. It’s the same mechanism that was used to partially subsidize Hudson Yards, accounting for just over $1 billion of the city’s $5.6 billion total tab.

The governor's Powerpoint presentation on his plans includes a diagram on page 51 showing a "development district" that would include Penn Station and several blocks around it. Cuomo's office referred questions to the state Empire State Development corporation, which indicated that this would be both the size of the new project and the size of the PILOT diversion district, though "the exact boundaries and parcels have yet to be finalized."
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  #211  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2020, 3:41 PM
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https://therealdeal.com/issues_artic...mos-penn-pals/

Cuomo’s Penn Pals?


C.J. HUGHES
FEB 1, 2020


Quote:
The latest proposal to expand Penn Station — given new urgency by Gov. Andrew Cuomo last month — includes plans to acquire a full city block to the south for an entirely new terminal with eight tracks.

The governor now has his sights on West 30th and West 31st streets between Seventh and Eighth avenues for the “Empire Station Complex” megaproject.

... that plan would require clearing the entire block — a somewhat shabby mix of prewar office buildings, low-slung restaurants, tenement-style apartments and Victorian-era churches — through negotiated purchases or eminent domain.
Quote:
All told, the block has 51 properties, including 30 condo units. The plan would also wipe out 763,000 square feet of commercial space. One asset — a six-story industrial property — already belongs to Amtrak.

It remains to be seen which developers Empire State Development, which is overseeing Penn Station’s expansion, will pick to lead the project, but real estate giant Vornado Realty Trust would have a built-in advantage in the bidding process. Steven Roth’s firm owns millions of square feet of property in the area that would greatly benefit from the project, allowing Vornado to undercut other firms and make up any losses through increased property values.

Here’s a closer look at some of the key numbers behind the Penn Station expansion plan.
Quote:
7.4M sq. ft.

The total amount of office space that Steven Roth’s Vornado controls around Penn Station. The REIT also owns local retail space, including the 1.12-million-square-foot Manhattan Mall, and the Hotel Pennsylvania.
Quote:
$305M

The combined “market value” of all 51 properties on the block targeted for acquisition, according to an analysis of Department of Finance estimates. Seven Penn Plaza, an 18-story prewar office building owned by the Feil Organization, is pegged at $112 million. But the city’s numbers, which do not factor in air rights, are likely far below what the properties would actually sell for: Amtrak and the governor have said it may cost upwards of $1 billion to purchase all the buildings.
Quote:
3 years

The amount of time left on Madison Square Garden’s special operating permit before James Dolan’s firm will have to secure a renewal or relocate the arena. Cuomo has suggested converting the arena’s Hulu Theater — a 5,600-seat concert venue that’s hosted Bob Dylan, Van Morrison and Elton John — into a new entrance for Penn Station.
Quote:
34%

The portion of the block in Cuomo’s sights controlled by Amtrak, the Archdiocese of New York and Gordon Property Group, which owns a 1,500-space parking garage. That those three parties control a third of the block may be welcome news for state negotiators, though officials would still have to contend with other, smaller stakeholders.
Quote:
10

The number of development firms that responded to RFPs to upgrade Penn and the surrounding area in 2016. The list included Extell, Silverstein Properties and JDS Development, according to news reports, but Cuomo tapped Vornado and Related Companies for the project the following year, and Vornado bought out most of Related’s share in 2018.
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  #212  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2020, 10:59 PM
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Why not tell Dolan to take a hike instead?
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  #213  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2020, 1:31 AM
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Why not tell Dolan to take a hike instead?
The thing is, the city has to have somewhere for it to go, particularly in Manhattan. This version of MSG is the fourth I believe, so a new one shouldn't be a big deal. I was thinking, since there is already talk of raising the block south for the terminal and office towers, maybe they could shift MSG partially on that block, it would have to rise above and over 31st Street though. All MSG operations would have to move for construction though, in what could be a lengthy process. But there just isn't enough willpower to do anything about moving MSG off the site.








The Moynihan plan was always the best option. Too bad it couldn't happen.









https://radiiinc.com/som-post-office





















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  #214  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2020, 2:33 PM
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Well, that ^ is pretty nice.
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  #215  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2020, 2:07 AM
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Well, that ^ is pretty nice.
It will live on in our dreams. (Those damn Dolans).

Meanwhile, they're working at a pretty good speed on the new 7th Avenue entrance. It looks like they really will finish up by the end of the year.


FEBRUARY 8, 2020


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  #216  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2020, 5:58 PM
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Possible megatall structure ? something exceeding 2200FT height .
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  #217  
Old Posted May 27, 2020, 9:21 PM
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This could be fast tracked...

https://rew-online.com/cuomo-fast-tr...und-more-work/

Cuomo fast-tracks Penn Station overhaul

by REW
May 27, 2020


Quote:
The Governor also announced the state will fast-track the construction of the new Empire Station at Penn and the new LaGuardia Airport while rail ridership and air traffic is down.

The Empire Station Complex would link a modernized Penn Station with the new Moynihan Train Hall, and a new terminal one block south of the existing site. The plan would add eight new tracks and increase train capacity by 40 percent at the station.
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  #218  
Old Posted May 28, 2020, 4:01 AM
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From the other days Corona briefing. He mentioned Penn Station briefly.

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  #219  
Old Posted May 28, 2020, 1:27 PM
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Brother Jimmy's Bar-b-que across from MSG is permanently closed. It's a sad time for businesses, who knows how many will come back. Many will just be replaced. But if Cuomo does fast-track thus, look for rumblings. Some landlords, on the other hand, may see this as a way out, with tanants and businesses unable to pay rent.
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  #220  
Old Posted May 28, 2020, 2:54 PM
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Maybe they can provide some tax benefits to these businesses (smaller one's) once this is all over. The shutting down of smaller businesses across the city is alarming. City is going to have to bite the bullet and not collect with some of these places. Perhaps a grace period of much lower taxes before they return to normal. Yeah it would be nice to see many many projects fast tracked across the city, particularly private sector projects. We need massive up zoning to build even more, and crush NIMBY opposition. Folks are going to need cheaper living after this is all set and done. NYC has lost folks, and needs to replace them and continue to grow population wise.
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