Rail Transit (Passenger and Freight) in Ontario

[Dengler Avenue]

https://www.mynorthbaynow.com/50685/...thern-ontario/

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

https://www.mynorthbaynow.com/50685/...thern-ontario/

I'm curios what people are expecting from a train in terms of schedule. Looking at this schedule (not sure the year, but it was during the Bill Davis years and used the Trans-European (TEE) trainsets so it would be late 70's or early 80's), there were 2 trains a day, 6 days a week, to North Bay with 1 of them continuing to Timmins and it took about 4:45 to get to North Bay and 10:30 to get to Timmins. I'm not sure, but I expect that would be the gold standard for what we might happen.

Compared to the existing bus service, the train had fewer stops than the express buses and they can get to North Bay in about 4:30. From North Bay to Timmons, the bus takes about 5:30, so if they wanted to replicate the train service with a bus, they could probably do it in about 10 hours and it would cost a lot less.

I get that in poor weather the train would be safer and more reliable, and it would likely be more comfortable for those riding it, but I don't think anyone would be happy with the service that we would actually get.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I'm curios what people are expecting from a train in terms of schedule. Looking at this schedule (not sure the year, but it was during the Bill Davis years and used the Trans-European (TEE) trainsets so it would be late 70's or early 80's), there were 2 trains a day, 6 days a week, to North Bay with 1 of them continuing to Timmins and it took about 4:45 to get to North Bay and 10:30 to get to Timmins. I'm not sure, but I expect that would be the gold standard for what we might happen.

Compared to the existing bus service, the train had fewer stops than the express buses and they can get to North Bay in about 4:30. From North Bay to Timmons, the bus takes about 5:30, so if they wanted to replicate the train service with a bus, they could probably do it in about 10 hours and it would cost a lot less.

I get that in poor weather the train would be safer and more reliable, and it would likely be more comfortable for those riding it, but I don't think anyone would be happy with the service that we would actually get.

The old overnight schedule was preferred with Northerners as they arrived early enough in Toronto to make their appointments.

One thing that it must have is a weekend run. The lack of Sunday service really hurt the ability to use it for weekend trips.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

The old overnight schedule was preferred with Northerners as they arrived early enough in Toronto to make their appointments.

One thing that it must have is a weekend run. The lack of Sunday service really hurt the ability to use it for weekend trips.

Ahh. The schedule I linked to was daytime service. I assume it was replaced with an overnight train more recently?

Overnight trains are much more expensive to operate per passenger, as they need more cars (depending on the type of accommodation) to service the same number of passengers, assuming they want more than just a coach seat. Because of this, many rail services around the world have been cancelling their overnight trains in recent years. Also, the tracks into Union are well used by commuter trains in the morning, so scheduling could be an issue. As a result, I wouldn't assume that the train would run overnight.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Ahh. The schedule I linked to was daytime service. I assume it was replaced with an overnight train more recently?

Overnight trains are much more expensive to operate per passenger, as they need more cars (depending on the type of accommodation) to service the same number of passengers, assuming they want more than just a coach seat. Because of this, many rail services around the world have been cancelling their overnight trains in recent years. Also, the tracks into Union are well used by commuter trains in the morning, so scheduling could be an issue. As a result, I wouldn't assume that the train would run overnight.

Ok, so what is the excuse for not running 7 days a week?

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Ok, so what is the excuse for not running 7 days a week?

I don't know. Lack of actual demand? Why does the Canadian only run 3 days a week?

Just because some people say they want it doesn't mean that lots of people will use it.

My question to you is, what percentage of residents would use this overnight train and how often would they use it? Also how much would the pay? Would it be cheaper to have them fly?

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I don't know. Lack of actual demand? Why does the Canadian only run 3 days a week?

Just because some people say they want it doesn't mean that lots of people will use it.

My question to you is, what percentage of residents would use this overnight train and how often would they use it? Also how much would the pay? Would it be cheaper to have them fly?

The problem is, with it shut down, we will never know.

If we had ridership numbers for when they ran a night train, and numbers for Sunday vs other days then we could make an informed decision.

[Loco101]

A train up to North Bay and one up to Sudbury might work but further North than that it really questionable today. The population has been declining in Northeastern Ontario and flying would likely be cheaper than the train. The train schedule would likely be inconvenient for many but the big problem is the location of the stations. Many people would require bus connections or have to drive to the station.

It's weird that there could be money for passenger rail service but that there is no money to improve our highway conditions in the Winter. But I don't think that the passenger rail thing will happen.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Loco101

A train up to North Bay and one up to Sudbury might work but further North than that it really questionable today. The population has been declining in Northeastern Ontario and flying would likely be cheaper than the train. The train schedule would likely be inconvenient for many but the big problem is the location of the stations. Many people would require bus connections or have to drive to the station.

It's weird that there could be money for passenger rail service but that there is no money to improve our highway conditions in the Winter. But I don't think that the passenger rail thing will happen.

There is less population along the Bala Sub than the one to North Bay. Now, one that goes up to North Bay then west to Sudbury does make some sense.

Flying has become all but an annoyance with the security and such. And then there is winter cancellations due to snow, ice, high winds, or even rain. A unique situation for Sudbury, if they cancel the last fight in, then the flight in the morning to Toronto is also canceled.

If they were to start with a 5 day schedule, not running on Tuesdays and Thursdays, but running all weekends, it might work good for a start. Adding those days when demand grows would make sense. Not having weekend service misses the potential cottage traffic north.

[Dengler Avenue]

First time taking the UPX! Even the interior resembles an airplane.

At Bloor Station, I also saw the Kitchener Train coming in (toward Union). Train number 664.

[Dengler Avenue]

https://imgur.com/a/yo1BCsp
I was pretty surprised to see Ontario Northland freight cars down here in K-W.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

https://imgur.com/a/yo1BCsp
I was pretty surprised to see Ontario Northland freight cars down here in K-W.

It depends on where that freight is destined. They can go on other lines. I am guessing that is a CN line.

[Djeffery]

I see my own company's highway trailers being used by other trucking companies every so often. A contractor trucking company might bring us a load in one of their trailers, leave it at our location here and take one of our empty trailers on to their next customer, and eventually our trailer makes it back to one of our locations (and likewise with their trailer they left at our place). I assume rail cars get handled in a similar fashion.

[vid]

There were a few on a CP train behind my place the other day, they looked pretty old.

[Gat-Train]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

https://imgur.com/a/yo1BCsp
I was pretty surprised to see Ontario Northland freight cars down here in K-W.

Why not just attach some passenger cars to an Ontario Northland freight train that goes to Toronto? Two birds one stone.

[Dengler Avenue]

I asked that same question a few pages back. Safety was the main issue, from what I remember.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

Why not just attach some passenger cars to an Ontario Northland freight train that goes to Toronto? Two birds one stone.

The mixed train The Polar Bear Express is a scheduled train that usually has all the cars it is taking both directions. No need to stop and connect or disconnect cars. South of Cochrane, that is not the case. That would make it much slower, and every connection/disconnection would be rough for the passengers.

[Gat-Train]

Would it make sense to merge Ontario Northland with GO? They're both agencies of the province that provide passenger transportation. And it's a bit ironic that Government of Ontario transit only moves people in the Golden Horseshoe, while entirely ignoring the rest of the province. Just seems to me that having them under one umbrella would eliminate a lot of waste, while also providing fare integration and schedule coordination. For example, someone in Kitchener wants to visit friends in North Bay. They could take the GO Train to Union, then transfer to a bus headed north, with nothing more than their Presto card.

[Dengler Avenue]

As it stands right now, ONTC departs from Bay Street Bus Terminal in Downtown TO. Maybe Presto card can be implemented, but then be ready to load $100+ onto your presto card.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

Would it make sense to merge Ontario Northland with GO? They're both agencies of the province that provide passenger transportation. And it's a bit ironic that Government of Ontario transit only moves people in the Golden Horseshoe, while entirely ignoring the rest of the province. Just seems to me that having them under one umbrella would eliminate a lot of waste, while also providing fare integration and schedule coordination. For example, someone in Kitchener wants to visit friends in North Bay. They could take the GO Train to Union, then transfer to a bus headed north, with nothing more than their Presto card.

Ontario Northland does more than just passenger buses, they handle a remote rail line still including both passenger and freight.