Historic census data

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Docere

Interesting to see the east-west split for those born in Poland and Russia then.

Born in Poland, 1931

Eastern Canada

Polish MT 26,835 43.6%
Yiddish MT 21,003 34.1%
Ukrainian MT 11,131 18.1%

Western Canada

Ukrainian MT 56,095 51.2%
Polish MT 34,212 31.2%
Yiddish MT 3,077 2.8%

Born in Russia, 1931

Eastern Canada

Yiddish MT 28,747 72.8%
Russian MT 7,026 17.8%

Western Canada

German MT 43,040 57.5%
Russian MT 15,197 20.3%
Yiddish MT 10,490 14%

Border changes in that region of the world might make comparisons like this really complicated. My great grandfather was born in 1893 in a village that was part of Russia at the time, but became part of Poland in 1919, shortly before he moved to Canada in 1923. I wonder if in this data set, he would show up as Born in Poland, or Born in Russia.

[Docere]

Here's my adjusted ethnicity data for the Prairie provinces (merging German origin and speakers together, doing the same with Ukrainians, and subtracting the German speakers out of the Russian and Dutch, Ukrainian speakers from the Polish and Austrian etc.) I've also removed some of the less "politically correct" terminology.

Manitoba, 1931:

British Isles 365,930 52.3%
Ukrainian 87,413 12.5%
German 66,160 9.4%
French 47,039 6.7%
Polish 32,041 4.6%
Scandinavian 31,397 4.5% (Icelandic: 13,450)
Jewish 19,341 2.8%
First Nations 15,417 2.2%
Dutch 8,814 1.3%

Saskatchewan, 1931:

British Isles 434,679 47.2%
German 169,011 18.3%
Ukrainian 74,600 8.1%
Scandinavian 72,684 7.9% (Norwegian: 39,755)
French 50,700 5.5%
Polish 21,344 2.3%
Russian 19,920 2.2%
Dutch 17,577 1.9%
First Nations 15,268 1.7%
Hungarian 13,363 1.4%

Alberta, 1931:

British Isles 386,019 52.8%
German 89,266 12.2%
Ukrainian 62,629 8.5%
Scandinavian 59,461 8.1% (Norwegian: 27,360)
French 38,377 5.2%
Polish 18,871 2.6%
First Nations 15,249 2.1%
Dutch 12,008 1.6%
Russian 9,139 1.2%

[Docere]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Border changes in that region of the world might make comparisons like this really complicated. My great grandfather was born in 1893 in a village that was part of Russia at the time, but became part of Poland in 1919, shortly before he moved to Canada in 1923. I wonder if in this data set, he would show up as Born in Poland, or Born in Russia.

Poland, most likely.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Docere

Poland, most likely.

When the 1931 census is publically released in 2023 I'll be able to look him up and tell you myself.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

When the 1931 census is publically released in 2023 I'll be able to look him up and tell you myself.

Hey, feel free to revamp this thread in 5 years!

[Docere]

It was often minorities that immigrated...only 35% of those born in Poland were ethnic Poles. German-Russians and Jews made up most of those from Russia etc.

[Docere]

British Columbia, 1931:

British Isles 487,380 70.2%
Scandinavian 33,854 4.9%
Chinese 27,139 3.9%
First Nations 24,599 3.5%
Japanese 22,205 3.2%
German 20,875 3%
French 15,028 2.2%
Italian 12,254 1.8%
Russian 9,729 1.4%

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by Docere

British Columbia, 1931:

British Isles 487,380 70.2%
Scandinavian 33,854 4.9%
Chinese 27,139 3.9%
First Nations 24,599 3.5%
Japanese 22,205 3.2%
German 20,875 3%
French 15,028 2.2%
Italian 12,254 1.8%
Russian 9,729 1.4%

I know the Scandinavian influence was present in BC (and in the Pacific Northwest more broadly) and elsewhere in Western Canada but I've found it kind of interesting that Scandinavian Canadians aren't as "visible" in Canada's image of its past cultural mosaic (especially in western Canada when say the bloc settlements are discussed), compared to say Scandinavian Americans in places like the Plains, and Midwest, say Swedes in Minnesota.

I also rarely hear about Scandinavian language history retention among western Canadians (compared to say Ukrainian, German, etc. on the prairies) compared to their American counterparts where lots of people know that Swedish contributed to say, Minnesota's distinctive accent. Did they assimilate really fast?

[Docere]

Yeah, pretty much. And they've never had the critical mass that they had in Minnesota and the Dakotas.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by Docere

Yeah, pretty much. And they've never had the critical mass that they had in Minnesota and the Dakotas.

Well, Icelanders are a major exception to that, but the same thing has occurred to me. Swedes were a big presence in Winnipeg in the early 20th century but, while they certainly had their "area" in the West End (along with the Icelanders) they didn't remain distinct and don't have any ongoing profile as an ethnic group, in stark contrast to Ukrainians, French-Canadians, Jews and Icelanders (or to the Swedes and Norwegians 75 miles south in ND and Minnesota).

[Docere]

In Manitoba, the Scandinavians were mostly Icelandic, in Alberta and Saskatchewan they were mostly Norwegian.

Saskatchewan and Alberta had a lot more immigrants from the US, including many Norwegians and ethnic Germans. In a way you can see the influence of Manitoba spreading east and Minnesota and the Dakotas spreading north/northwest into the "last best west."

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by Docere

In Manitoba, the Scandinavians were mostly Icelandic, in Alberta and Saskatchewan they were mostly Norwegian.

Saskatchewan and Alberta had a lot more immigrants from the US, including many Norwegians and ethnic Germans. In a way you can see the influence of Manitoba spreading east and Minnesota and the Dakotas spreading north/northwest into the "last best west."

When the Canadian prairies got "American" immigrants, many of whom themselves were recent immigrants from Europe, I wonder how assimilated they were to American culture when they first arrived in Canada, or if they were more like someone from the "old country".

It'd make a difference if, for example, a German-American or Norwegian-American moving to Alberta saw themselves as an American moving to Alberta and not, say the same way a German from German or Norwegian from Norway directly moving there would be.

[Capsicum]

Also, if someone born in Germany at a young age, and moved to the US (even getting citizenship there), and then moved to Canada, would it really show up as an "American" moving to Canada, or merely a German immigrant moving to Canada?

I think immigration generally treats birthplace as being where someone immigrates from, right, so even though a person might have passed through many places along the way, it's generally recorded as person from (birthplace) immigrating to (final destination) rather than person from (last previous destination) to (final destination).

[Docere]

It's based on place of birth, not last country of residence.

[Capsicum]

So, it's still likely that a Norwegian-American moving to Alberta is less Norwegian in culture than someone straight from Norway, right?

If a lot of Scandinavian-Canadians are descended from Scandinavian-Americans rather than straight from the old country, maybe that's why assimilation was faster?

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

So, it's still likely that a Norwegian-American moving to Alberta is less Norwegian in culture than someone straight from Norway, right?

If a lot of Scandinavian-Canadians are descended from Scandinavian-Americans rather than straight from the old country, maybe that's why assimilation was faster?

They didn't stay in an area where it was as likely their kids would marry other Scandinavians, so connections with that identity were quickly forgotten.

My impression is that most people just wanted to become Americans as quickly and as thoroughly as possible. This was true in Canada as well - my grandparents, whose parents had come from Great Britain from the 1870s to the 1900s told me, in all cases, that their parents rarely said anything at all about the places they had come from. It just wasn't interesting to them and no one thought to ask. I imagine their memories were mostly of being poor and not having any prospects and not really being much of an individual at all (in the sense that you were predestined to do pretty much exactly what your father or mother had done, in the same place). Forgetting all that stuff, which you can call "their culture" if you want I guess, was kind of the point.

[Andy6]

Lots of the immigrants were Americans who (either themselves or their parents) had emigrated from Canada. The U.S. Midwest and Plains states were full of Ontarians and they may have formed a significant portion of the tens of thousands who streamed into Saskatchewan and Alberta (although I've not tested that hypothesis in any serious way).

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Lots of the immigrants were Americans who (either themselves or their parents) had emigrated from Canada. The U.S. Midwest and Plains states were full of Ontarians and they may have formed a significant portion of the tens of thousands who streamed into Saskatchewan and Alberta (although I've not tested that hypothesis in any serious way).

An interesting hypothesis and something very difficult to really know exactly, since we can't detect the children of "Ontarians" through language or ethnic origin data.

[Capsicum]

There's no good way to track "assimilated" English-speaking Canadians and Anglo-Americans crossing one another's borders past birthplace, unlike with say French Canadians, it seems like.

Unless there's data on parents and grandparents' birthplaces.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

So, it's still likely that a Norwegian-American moving to Alberta is less Norwegian in culture than someone straight from Norway, right?

If a lot of Scandinavian-Canadians are descended from Scandinavian-Americans rather than straight from the old country, maybe that's why assimilation was faster?

Most likely, as Scandinavian immigration to the US was big in the 1870s and 1880s, so by the 1931 census a lot their families might have been in North America for half a century.

Direct immigration from Scandinavia to Canada was more of a 20th century phenomenon (except for the Icelanders in Manitoba).