PHILADELPHIA | The Arbour House @ 708 Sansom | 414 FT | 35 FLOORS

[allovertown]

With upscale residential construction largely unaffected throughout the city, residential real estate generally performing well in Philly despite the pandemic, and even new projects being announced in recent months, something tells me that the pandemic may be a small part of the equation as far as what is going on here. If there was no pandemic, still not sure we'd have seen construction here yet.

When I'm walking through the area, I'm sure to never walk down this block. Just the sight of this mess pisses me off so much.

[eixample]

This situation pisses me off too and I avoid this block as well. Historical preservation can go way too far in certain parts of the city (e.g. society hill), but we should have preserved this jewel of a block of low rises (pun intended). Even if jewelry stores were losing steam it would have evolved into something new as it had evolved into Jeweler's row before.

[DudeGuy]

Toll Brothers had their earnings call yesterday and this site (kind of) came up. Relevant bits below:

Jack Micenko:

Has capital allocation around the build versus the rental or city living development changed? I mean, it's hard to - you got to plan these things through cycles given the construction timing. But is Toll pivoting more towards traditional and maybe less on the rental side, are we hearing that or is it just maybe the way you fund that business is going to change more - on a more pronounced basis?

Douglas Yearley:

No, you're hearing that. We have no intention right now of buying a city living property butthere will come a time when that changes. But right now, we're on the sidelines. We have, Gregg mentioned, $200 million of the city living investment is in land, and none of that land has started.

So we have what are really good high-rise sites, one in Manhattan, one in Philadelphia, one in Seattle and one in Los Angeles that are not starting right now. We need to get through this winter. We need to see what things look like in the spring. I am very encouraged by the last 6 weeks of activity in Manhattan.

I am not telling you it's back, but it is improving. We're hearing that buyers with the talk of vaccines are now thinking about living in New York. We're hearing a few stories of some that render the suburbs, that are coming back to take a look. But that doesn't mean I am ready to start a high-rise in New York, because it's very different from the farm fields.

In the farm fields, when the market rolls, you can just stop building the next house down the road. In the high-rise business, once you start, you're going and you're going to the top. So we are being very cautious, both in starting those four buildings I mentioned, and on the sidelines for new opportunities.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by DudeGuy

Toll Brothers had their earnings call yesterday and this site (kind of) came up. Relevant bits below:

So 2021? I still find this delay ridiculous. High-end residential construction is chugging along throughout the city and Toll is a very large company with a huge marketing reach, there is no reason another 100 or so units could not be absorbed into the market. And its the only new tower overlooking Washington Square Park...an attractive trait for buyers.

The aesthetic of the tower is a whole other problem, glass box...This is a company that can afford an A+ design (which some of their Manhattan projects get), yet Philadelphia gets C-...their home base...

A tragedy all around.

[Redddog]

These guys should be banned from the city.

Pure scum. And we let them get away with it.

[Nova08]

Toll Brothers revises timetable for its controversial Jewelers' Row project
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...w-project.html

“Currently, we anticipate breaking ground for our condominium building in 2022 and completing the building in 2024.”
...
The Horsham-based homebuilder scaled down the number of condominiums to 63 from 86 and reduced the height of the building to 307 feet from 329 feet. It remains 24 stories.

[mcgrath618]

What a fucking joke.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by Nova08

Toll Brothers revises timetable for its controversial Jewelers' Row project
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...w-project.html

I'm confused with the delay... The units will sell, its a fantastic location. And besides the entire mess of a situation, the tower isn't terrible, but in that location the city deserves something better, and might as well be taller.

Ribbing of the glass (similar to Riverwalk and Murano) would take this a long way, and Toll can certainly afford the small additional façade costs.

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

I'm confused with the delay... The units will sell, its a fantastic location. And besides the entire mess of a situation, the tower isn't terrible, but in that location the city deserves something better, and might as well be taller.

Ribbing of the glass (similar to Riverwalk and Murano) would take this a long way, and Toll can certainly afford the small additional façade costs.

Because whenever someone looks at a skyscraper they always think “if only it were 100 ft taller”. The neighborhood isn’t a necessarily the skyscraper district - its Jeweler’s Row and it should have been preserved.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

Because whenever someone looks at a skyscraper they always think “if only it were 100 ft taller”. The neighborhood isn’t a necessarily the skyscraper district - its Jeweler’s Row and it should have been preserved.

The damage is done so the "it should have" argument is irrelevant... And I never advocated for demo in the first place.

And since the damage is done, why not build a tall elegant tower? Philadelphia gets another 300' box (this time glass).

And not a skyscraper district? The St James is a few hundred feet away, and The Public Ledger Building on the corner is ~170ft tall, and a lot more hulking than a skinny tower.

[summersm343]

Hilarious. What are they waiting for? I'll tell you what... they're waiting to see how the condo units at Arthaus and Laurel get absorbed.

[arkitect13]

Wasnt there something a little back that the ones in the Athaus are selling well? Or am I mistaking that for something else?

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

The damage is done so the "it should have" argument is irrelevant... And I never advocated for demo in the first place.

And since the damage is done, why not build a tall elegant tower? Philadelphia gets another 300' box (this time glass).

And not a skyscraper district? The St James is a few hundred feet away, and The Public Ledger Building on the corner is ~170ft tall, and a lot more hulking than a skinny tower.

I wouldn’t call the Public Ledger Building a tower by any stretch. The area is mostly low to medium rise. It’s not Market West by a long shot. I think the “build skyscrapers everywhere” solution has a tendency to cloud good planning and thoughtful architecture. The most beautiful and liveable cities and neighborhoods in the world aren’t necessarily packed with skyscrapers. Not sure why we need to keep doubling down on this. The truth is most Philadelphians and visitors aren’t impressed by its glass towers (you can find them anywhere). It’s the cobblestone streets, quaint brick rowhouses and sense of history that truly makes the city unique. I’m not against new skyscrapers but we don’t have to sacrifice these neighborhoods or build them up taller just because..

[Urbanthusiat]

Originally Posted by arkitect13

Wasnt there something a little back that the ones in the Athaus are selling well? Or am I mistaking that for something else?

They are certainly not going well, I can tell you that.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Redddog

These guys should be banned from the city.

Pure scum. And we let them get away with it.

They should be banned from the whole region.

Even in the suburbs, the default housing vernacular used to be very elegant and high quality, even in middle class areas.

By becoming this regions biggest builder, they've co-opted and destroyed the entire idea of what good housing is. A million dollar house shouldn't have vinyl windows and shame on the sheep who buy their product who think its normal.

Other metros have much higher quality volume builders in the $500k-$1MM plus space. Semi-custom product, etc.

Even our custom builders build their product as variants of the Toll output. The only exception is probably Bentley Homes.

[allovertown]

Unmitigated disaster.

The part that pisses me off the most is that a bunch of random yahoos on an internet forum saw this coming from miles away. Why couldn't the city see this? Just can't imagine why these buildings were allowed to be demolished.

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by allovertown

Unmitigated disaster.

The part that pisses me off the most is that a bunch of random yahoos on an internet forum saw this coming from miles away. Why couldn't the city see this? Just can't imagine why these buildings were allowed to be demolished.

Hear ya. Get involved if you can. Write to city council or the HDC.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

I wouldn’t call the Public Ledger Building a tower by any stretch. The area is mostly low to medium rise. It’s not Market West by a long shot. I think the “build skyscrapers everywhere” solution has a tendency to cloud good planning and thoughtful architecture. The most beautiful and liveable cities and neighborhoods in the world aren’t necessarily packed with skyscrapers. Not sure why we need to keep doubling down on this. The truth is most Philadelphians and visitors aren’t impressed by its glass towers (you can find them anywhere). It’s the cobblestone streets, quaint brick rowhouses and sense of history that truly makes the city unique. I’m not against new skyscrapers but we don’t have to sacrifice these neighborhoods or build them up taller just because..

You missed my point again. The damage is done, lets build something noteworthy rather than a 300' glass shoebox. Why not something like 56 Leonard, Beckford House, Rose Hill (all in Manhattan), all stunning new towers. (look them up).

(Again, I never advocated for the demolition, this is after the fact).

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

They should be banned from the whole region.

Even in the suburbs, the default housing vernacular used to be very elegant and high quality, even in middle class areas.

By becoming this regions biggest builder, they've co-opted and destroyed the entire idea of what good housing is. A million dollar house shouldn't have vinyl windows and shame on the sheep who buy their product who think its normal.

Other metros have much higher quality volume builders in the $500k-$1MM plus space. Semi-custom product, etc.

Even our custom builders build their product as variants of the Toll output. The only exception is probably Bentley Homes.

Eh, I don't know about that.

The Philadelphia area has Bentley Homes, Pohlig Homes, and a lot of great custom builders in the region.

But, there is some TRASH being constructed elsewhere too. I spent 2 months in Texas (after the major freeze) and visited dozens of suburban sprawl communities outside of Austin, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, and the level of construction is tree-house cheap, and a lot less hurdles to build in Texas than Southeastern PA.

Toll isn't great and had a lot of EIFS issues in the early 00's, but their newer communities in our area are decently built and more aesthetically pleasing than my experiences in other metros (By large homebuilder standards which isn't saying much overall, but it's true from my experience, but still not worth $1M, I totally agree there).

(I am an engineer / building consultant, I've seen every type of home and construction method there is, around the nation).

[UrbanRevival]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

Eh, I don't know about that.

The Philadelphia area has Bentley Homes, Pohlig Homes, and a lot of great custom builders in the region.

Indeed. Firms like Period Architecture, Archer & Buchanan, and MAMO Architects do absolutely incredible, top-notch work.

The Philly area definitely isn't lacking for architectural/homebuilder talent, especially for more historic/traditionally-styled architecture.

Although I think there's a lot of room for more high-end, modern-styled architectural firms to broaden the pool, especially in the suburbs.

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

But, there is some TRASH being constructed elsewhere too. I spent 2 months in Texas (after the major freeze) and visited dozens of suburban sprawl communities outside of Austin, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, and the level of construction is tree-house cheap, and a lot less hurdles to build in Texas than Southeastern PA.

Yes, it goes without saying that the faster growing an area, the more likely you'll find lesser-quality construction practices to meet the demand. A slower growth region like Philadelphia benefits from much more considered and thoughtfully-designed development.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

Eh, I don't know about that.

The Philadelphia area has Bentley Homes, Pohlig Homes, and a lot of great custom builders in the region.

I don't disagree. They're all great. But they're in the $1MM+ space. These days, mostly $2MM+. And, they're all building in the same exact vernacular.

Again, I think this region lacks a semi-custom product in the $500K-$1MM range. There's a whole segment of the market that exists in other regions that doesn't really exist here. Here, we have very high end custom, then Toll, then schlock.

I've said it before, but there are cottage industries of builders in other regions who buy middling homes in nice towns on smaller lots and knock them down to build custom product in this price range.

We have custom homes on acre+ lots on the Main Line and exurban sprawl. Nothing else. No reason why you can't knock down a middling $350K house on a third of an acre lot in Havertown or Whitemarsh or Wallingford and replace it with a new home for $850K or $900K.

If it can happen in Upper Arlington outside of Columbus Ohio, or all over the inner ring suburbs of Atlanta and Charlotte and Nashville, it can happen in Wallingford which is in a top flight school district on transit 10 miles from Center City.