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  #641  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2021, 4:47 PM
aquaticko aquaticko is offline
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Originally Posted by subterranean View Post
The Beaverton core allows for building heights over double the height of that garage by right, and taller by discretion/Type III. What would you like us to do, hold guns to the heads of private developers and land owners?
Frankly, I think something should be done about this sort of situation. It's not just Beaverton or Portland. There are a lot of privately-held lots of land in cities all over the country that are being sat on because the owner is waiting for the right conditions to either sell or develop. Or, as in this situation, a private developer is wasting perfectly transit-friendly land on parking (great way to encourage use of that expensive-to-build transit system right next door, by the way).

Meanwhile, city governments are being deprived of maximized tax income, and cities themselves of enhanced economic activity, because some person or corporate entity is holding out for more money.

Why do we consider squatting--where someone's making use of a building that would otherwise be unused--a punishable offense, but someone deliberately not using land and also preventing others from doing so, is perfectly acceptable?

Sorry for the rant (especially as a newbie here); just raises my hackles to see those empty lots near Beaverton TC everytime I walk to work.
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  #642  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2021, 5:59 PM
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Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
Frankly, I think something should be done about this sort of situation. It's not just Beaverton or Portland. There are a lot of privately-held lots of land in cities all over the country that are being sat on because the owner is waiting for the right conditions to either sell or develop. Or, as in this situation, a private developer is wasting perfectly transit-friendly land on parking (great way to encourage use of that expensive-to-build transit system right next door, by the way).

Meanwhile, city governments are being deprived of maximized tax income, and cities themselves of enhanced economic activity, because some person or corporate entity is holding out for more money.

Why do we consider squatting--where someone's making use of a building that would otherwise be unused--a punishable offense, but someone deliberately not using land and also preventing others from doing so, is perfectly acceptable?

Sorry for the rant (especially as a newbie here); just raises my hackles to see those empty lots near Beaverton TC everytime I walk to work.
so, are you proposing penalizing private property owners for not spending multiple millions of dollars to develop property in a way that meets your expectations? just want to be clear what you are advocating for here.
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  #643  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2021, 4:09 AM
aquaticko aquaticko is offline
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so, are you proposing penalizing private property owners for not spending multiple millions of dollars to develop property in a way that meets your expectations? just want to be clear what you are advocating for here.
In short, yes. In a seriously housing-deprived region, next to a transit system which taxpayers have spent many billions to develop, near downtown jobs, depriving the city government of taxable development and economic activity, a landowner absolutely should be disincentivized from sitting on valuable land. The government is allowed to take abandoned properties as is seen fit; why is property which isn't being developed in the first place treated any differently?

Look, I don't want my introductory prescence on this forum to be a completely incendiary one, and mods are free to delete my last post, and I don't expect to convince anyone who isn't already more or less on my side with this. But, this kind of private property-uber-alles approach to urban development is a large part of what's caused the national housing crisis in the first place.
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  #644  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2021, 6:44 AM
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so, are you proposing penalizing private property owners for not spending multiple millions of dollars to develop property in a way that meets your expectations? just want to be clear what you are advocating for here.
That is a possible thing a city can do. Now I am not getting into the legality of it in Oregon when it comes to taxes or whether or not this is a good idea, but a Land Value Tax taxes a site based on the land value. So in a location like downtown Beaverton, it would encourage not leaving sites underdeveloped because a landowner would want something on that site that produced enough money to cover the land value tax.

There is also other things the city could do, a development commission is also another idea that has worked great in Portland by buying up sites and then finding the right owners to sell to to develop a site to its full potential.

Then there is review commissions that can approve or disapprove building designs that could call for buildings to be designed taller. Though review commissions tend to do the opposite and want buildings to be more squat.

https://www.dcpolicycenter.org/publi...and-value-tax/
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  #645  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2021, 8:50 PM
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Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
In short, yes. In a seriously housing-deprived region, next to a transit system which taxpayers have spent many billions to develop, near downtown jobs, depriving the city government of taxable development and economic activity, a landowner absolutely should be disincentivized from sitting on valuable land. The government is allowed to take abandoned properties as is seen fit; why is property which isn't being developed in the first place treated any differently?

Look, I don't want my introductory prescence on this forum to be a completely incendiary one, and mods are free to delete my last post, and I don't expect to convince anyone who isn't already more or less on my side with this. But, this kind of private property-uber-alles approach to urban development is a large part of what's caused the national housing crisis in the first place.
first of all, governments are not allowed to take abandoned properties as they see fit. SOMEONE presumably owns the property, and there is a process for condemnation, which is not always easy.

one potential problem I see with your approach is that when you are essentially asking for a requirement that land to be developed we will likely end up with a majority of structures that meet a very low bar related to quality and size. this forum is rife with folks complaining about 5 over 2 cookie cutter developments. I'd prefer to wait for something better than the bare minimum.

you'll get no arguments on the downside of status quo as it relates to housing, though. I just bristle at the notion of local governments providing a heavy hand on the whens and hows of development of privately owned properties. it's also a big enough problem that the federal government really needs to step up.

don't get me started on mental health and homeless issues...
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  #646  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2021, 8:56 PM
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Then there is review commissions that can approve or disapprove building designs that could call for buildings to be designed taller. Though review commissions tend to do the opposite and want buildings to be more squat.
curious if this has been done anywhere. I can't see how this would be a legal maneuver from a review commission. If development code gives the parameters of FAR and other size limitations, and you are meeting those requirements, you should be able to build according to what you think is best for the property and owner.

The only way around that would be to require a min. and max. height in zoning. is that a thing?
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  #647  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2021, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by eric cantona View Post
curious if this has been done anywhere. I can't see how this would be a legal maneuver from a review commission. If development code gives the parameters of FAR and other size limitations, and you are meeting those requirements, you should be able to build according to what you think is best for the property and owner.

The only way around that would be to require a min. and max. height in zoning. is that a thing?
Boards & commissions typically side with the staff recommendation presented to them in the staff report. They can approve, deny, or modify the recommendation. Most development codes have sections that define what criteria can be given waivers or variances. It would be a legal issue if a board were to say the code allows for 100’ height maximum but we want it to be 150’ so you can’t build. A good city attorney would step in and correct them.

That’s my perspective as a local planner but others may have more to add.

I can only think of an instance in Portland where the original proposal for Belmont Grand was revised down even though it was within the approvable height. As this was still during the review process the revisions came from the developer. I’m sure they could have pushed for taller heights if they felt like it was a hill worth dying on.
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  #648  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2021, 1:46 AM
aquaticko aquaticko is offline
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Originally Posted by eric cantona View Post
first of all, governments are not allowed to take abandoned properties as they see fit. SOMEONE presumably owns the property, and there is a process for condemnation, which is not always easy.

one potential problem I see with your approach is that when you are essentially asking for a requirement that land to be developed we will likely end up with a majority of structures that meet a very low bar related to quality and size. this forum is rife with folks complaining about 5 over 2 cookie cutter developments. I'd prefer to wait for something better than the bare minimum.
Frankly, considering how common tent cities are in the Portland area, I know I, personally, would welcome any kind of developments that have running water, electricity, windows, walls, and doors. I'm sure I'm not alone in that, and I'd think those of us lucky enough to already have those things wouldn't be so picky about the conditions under which we encourage their provision to others.

Quote:
you'll get no arguments on the downside of status quo as it relates to housing, though. I just bristle at the notion of local governments providing a heavy hand on the whens and hows of development of privately owned properties. it's also a big enough problem that the federal government really needs to step up.

don't get me started on mental health and homeless issues...
While mental health is, inarguably, an unadressed aspect to the whole situation, it's beginning to feel like a bit of a cannard. It seems so conveniently irreparable to say that a big part of the problem is literally in people's heads, so why bother trying? In reality, we simply build far less housing than we used to, and people are being paid far less money than they used to be. This is on top of the systemically atomizing effects of our economic system, and a Puritanical culture that says, "thrive and suffer, or at least, suffer".

But once again, I'm getting more than a bit off-topic and ranty.

Quote:
Boards & commissions typically side with the staff recommendation presented to them in the staff report. They can approve, deny, or modify the recommendation. Most development codes have sections that define what criteria can be given waivers or variances. It would be a legal issue if a board were to say the code allows for 100’ height maximum but we want it to be 150’ so you can’t build. A good city attorney would step in and correct them.
By that do you mean to say that height variances aren't usually granted? If the point is that we can't write a building code for minimum height, I'd ask, why not? We have all kinds of specifications for setbacks, lot sizes, (until recently; yay Portland) parking requirements, even aesthetics. Would a code for minimum height in certain areas really be so outlandish?
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  #649  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2021, 8:54 PM
subterranean subterranean is offline
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A height minimum would give the people who hold properties even more incentive to do so.
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  #650  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2021, 5:24 AM
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A height minimum would give the people who hold properties even more incentive to do so.
Yes but they do exist in a variety of development codes but they’re not that common and rarely require over 2-3 floors.
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  #651  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2021, 8:56 PM
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Beaverton Town Center has a proposed new building (east of Buffalo Wild Wings)

https://apps2.beavertonoregon.gov/De...20Drawings.pdf
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  #652  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2021, 2:59 AM
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Beaverton Town Center has a proposed new building (east of Buffalo Wild Wings)

https://apps2.beavertonoregon.gov/De...20Drawings.pdf
That's the third or fourth building proposed there over the years. Hopefully they have a tenant signed this time. The restaurant space specs look pretty specific.
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  #653  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2021, 8:56 AM
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Beaverton Town Center has a proposed new building (east of Buffalo Wild Wings)

https://apps2.beavertonoregon.gov/De...20Drawings.pdf
Looks like they are adding another strip mall building, good that it is eating up some of the surface parking.
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  #654  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2021, 1:42 AM
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Looks like they are adding another strip mall building, good that it is eating up some of the surface parking.
It's not eating up much surface parking. It's replacing.the now demolished Hollywood Video building. An earlier proposal would have redeveloped much of that side of the strip mall into an outdoor village. It's really unfortunate, that proposal didn't fly.
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  #655  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2021, 3:37 PM
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Architect out of Maryland/NYC? Too bad they couldn't support a local firm who maybe is familiar with the area.
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  #656  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2021, 4:00 PM
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Looks like the Honey Baked Ham Co. is a client.
https://www.callisonrtkl.com/projects/honey-baked-ham/

I wonder if they're moving into a new space.
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  #657  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2021, 9:55 PM
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It's not eating up much surface parking. It's replacing.the now demolished Hollywood Video building. An earlier proposal would have redeveloped much of that side of the strip mall into an outdoor village. It's really unfortunate, that proposal didn't fly.
That really is unfortunate, I don't remember this proposal, but a mixed use outdoor village would have definitely been much nicer than continuing an existing strip mall.
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  #658  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2021, 3:56 AM
subterranean subterranean is offline
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Matt’s BBQ heads to Beaverton, joining Breakside’s all-star cart pod

“In addition to the cart pod, the new Breakside location will feature a tap room built out of a shipping container, an American Tavern with a menu from Lamback, a former Wildwood sous chef, and the possibility of adding another business -- an ice cream shop, perhaps, or an oyster and Champagne bar -- in a second indoor space.

Breakside Brewery’s new Beaverton location will open as soon as October at 12680 S.W. Farmington Road.”
https://www.newsbreakapp.com/n/0bGqr...ang=en_US&s=i0
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  #659  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2021, 10:25 PM
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I'm pretty excited about the Breakside brewery opening on this side of the metro area. Beaverton already has one of my favorite BBQ spots with Wolf's Head Smokehouse in the BG Food Cart Pod. Excited to try Matts BBQ!
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  #660  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2021, 8:34 PM
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I'm pretty excited about the Breakside brewery opening on this side of the metro area. Beaverton already has one of my favorite BBQ spots with Wolf's Head Smokehouse in the BG Food Cart Pod. Excited to try Matts BBQ!
Me too. Matt's is amazing, and so is Breakside.

My wife and I joke that Beaverton is the next up-and-coming Portland neighborhood.
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