Sacramento Transportation - Page 61

SacTownAndy · #**1201** Posted **Jan 14, 2019, 6:57 PM**

UGH UGH UGH!!

Sacramento streetcar project in serious jeopardy as price tag soars

https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/tr...224505975.html

Schmoe · #**1202** Posted **Jan 15, 2019, 6:07 PM**

Anyone surprised?

ozone · #**1203** Posted **Jan 16, 2019, 11:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SacTownAndy

UGH UGH UGH!!

Sacramento streetcar project in serious jeopardy as price tag soars

https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/tr...224505975.html

The city's estimated cost seemed way too low to begin with. I'm used to be all for the streetcar but I've changed my mind. It will do too little and cost too much. There has to be better ways to get people to and from these destinations without the use of cars and expensive rail systems.

Sac-O-Lantern · #**1204** Posted **Jan 17, 2019, 4:32 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozone

The city's estimated cost seemed way too low to begin with. I'm used to be all for the streetcar but I've changed my mind. It will do too little and cost too much. There has to be better ways to get people to and from these destinations without the use of cars and expensive rail systems.

Is there any reason a bus or two could not run a similar loop as the streetcar, at a tiny fraction of the cost, using existing infrastructure, starting tomorrow?

TWAK · #**1205** Posted **Jan 17, 2019, 4:33 AM**

How about light-rail on unused tracks? That seem high but this is California

Pistola916 · #**1206** Posted **Jan 17, 2019, 6:19 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWAK

How about light-rail on unused tracks? That seem high but this is California

I was thinking the same thing. Why not expand light rail from the Amtrak Station to the West Sac Civic Center using the same streetcar route? That would only be about 2 or 2.5 miles of new track and 4-5 new stations compared to the streetcar line, which is 3.3 miles and 21 stations. You save by minimizing the number of stations that need to be built, streetcars that have to be purchased, and on the miles of track that needs to be installed.

ozone · #**1207** Posted **Jan 17, 2019, 7:34 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWAK

How about light-rail on unused tracks? That seem high but this is California

I was checking costs in other cities around the country and the numbers seemed about the same. We are just conditioned to assume everything is higher here because some things, like real estate, are so ridiculously high. But even that depends on where you are. Some parts of country are way cheaper and some parts aren't.

ozone · #**1208** Posted **Jan 17, 2019, 7:36 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sac-O-Lantern

Is there any reason a bus or two could not run a similar loop as the streetcar, at a tiny fraction of the cost, using existing infrastructure, starting tomorrow?

I don't see why not.

CastleScott · #**1209** Posted **Jan 18, 2019, 1:01 AM**

^ Guys and gals-don't say never as to the streetcar, why not try public-private partnerships like other places do (this might be a bit new to Sacramento but it should be tried because it works in other places and is quite big in Europe in financing both high-speed rail, transit and highways). For example 5 of metro Denver's transit lines were done via public-private partnerships including the well-used line to the Denver airport. Naming rights could bring in extra funds as well. Its just there's more then one way to skin a cat on this one..

Sac-O-Lantern · #**1210** Posted **Jan 18, 2019, 4:02 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by CastleScott

^ Guys and gals-don't say never as to the streetcar, why not try public-private partnerships like other places do (this might be a bit new to Sacramento but it should be tried because it works in other places and is quite big in Europe in financing both high-speed rail, transit and highways). For example 5 of metro Denver's transit lines were done via public-private partnerships including the well-used line to the Denver airport. Naming rights could bring in extra funds as well. Its just there's more then one way to skin a cat on this one..

Probably the crucial point there is that the Denver line is "well-used", so maybe it could actually pay for itself with ridership fares.

The lowest bid on the streetcar is $184 million. Let's say a steetcar fare was $3. (That's generous, currently a bus fare is $2.50 or less). So the streetcar would need about 61 million riders over it's operational lifetime to cover the cost of construction. And that assumes operational and maintenance costs are $0. The entire RT annual ridership in 2017 was 23 million. That's was across 97 light rail vehicles, 205 buses, and 23 shuttle vans. I do not think there is a chance of private capital touching a project as financially ill-advised as the streetcar.

The streetcar is a diamond-encrusted sledgehammer trying to swat a fly. It is a shiny toy, an incredibly expensive solution to a simple problem that a bus would solve cheaply. But buses aren't sexy, and politicians need to win elections. And the Feds may also a throw a bunch of $ into this completely inefficient project.

urban_encounter · #**1211** Posted **Jan 18, 2019, 7:01 PM**

If memory serves me correctly (please feel free to correct me) high speed rail funds helped pay for the new Transbay Terminal? Maybe the city could solicit funds from HSR since ultimately it (the streetcar) can feed people into the Sacramento Valley Station.

Long shot I realize.

kamehameha · #**1212** Posted **Jan 22, 2019, 4:25 PM**

Bring in a Chinese construction company with chinese laborers and chinese hardwares. the cost will be just a third of the lowest bid on the streetcar.

urban_encounter · #**1213** Posted **Jan 23, 2019, 1:16 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamehameha

Bring in a Chinese construction company with chinese laborers and chinese hardwares. the cost will be just a third of the lowest bid on the streetcar.

Truthfully

enigma99a · #**1214** Posted **Feb 13, 2019, 12:12 AM**

Now the CAHSR is canceled, perhaps some money can be used to improve the greater Bay Area's transportation. Second tunnel, Capitol Corridor electrification and right away, 125MPH speeds

ozone · #**1215** Posted **Feb 13, 2019, 6:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by enigma99a

Now the CAHSR is canceled, perhaps some money can be used to improve the greater Bay Area's transportation. Second tunnel, Capitol Corridor electrification and right away, 125MPH speeds

Yes, let's hope so!

Speaking of the Chinese... I just read an article about a new track-less street car operating in China. The costs are significantly less and it provides greater flexibility. I think this should be looked into as a way to not only cut costs but also extend the street car to eastern Midtown and Oak Park. What do you guys think?

CastleScott · #**1216** Posted **Feb 16, 2019, 4:05 AM**

Quote:

Speaking of the Chinese... I just read an article about a new track-less street car operating in China. The costs are significantly less and it provides greater flexibility. I think this should be looked into as a way to not only cut costs but also extend the street car to eastern Midtown and Oak Park. What do you guys think?

Sure ozone I think that's a great idea-why not (it could even go down Stockton Blvd past UCDavis hospital on its way towards Oak Park)!

CastleScott · #**1217** Posted **Feb 21, 2019, 7:24 PM**

Here's something pretty cool:
https://www.kcra.com/article/olli-se...uttle/26443982

enigma99a · #**1218** Posted **Feb 23, 2019, 6:04 AM**

Story came out a couple days ago but is exactly what we need.

https://www.sacbee.com/latest-news/a...226474345.html

CastleScott · #**1219** Posted **Feb 24, 2019, 11:38 PM**

Quote:

Story came out a couple days ago but is exactly what we need.

https://www.sacbee.com/latest-news/a...226474345.html

For sure!

202_Cyclist · #**1220** Posted **Feb 25, 2019, 4:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by enigma99a

Story came out a couple days ago but is exactly what we need.

https://www.sacbee.com/latest-news/a...226474345.html

This would certainly be a useful project but where would California get the funding for this? New York and Amtrak are trying to secure $20B for the Gateway project to replace and enhance the tunnels crossing the Hudson River and the federal government hasn't been willing to fund this.