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  #221  
Old Posted May 4, 2021, 7:30 PM
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Well, at least that lot will be filled with something.


https://therealdeal.com/2021/05/04/h...ject-approved/

Howard Hughes’ (slightly less) big Seaport project approved
Landmarks commissioners vote 6-2 for 324-foot, mixed-use project



May. 04, 2021
By Erik Engquist


Quote:
If any pigs were seen flying over Lower Manhattan Tuesday, this would explain it: An $850 million development planned for the South Street Seaport Historic District was approved.

The third time before the Landmarks Preservation Commission was the charm for the Howard Hughes Corporation as the board voted 6 to 2 in favor of its downsized — but still sizable — project at 250 Water Street.......
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  #222  
Old Posted May 4, 2021, 7:42 PM
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Wow it's 4 feet away from being an official high-rise (328 feet is 100 meters)

Well done
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  #223  
Old Posted May 4, 2021, 10:23 PM
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  #224  
Old Posted May 4, 2021, 10:51 PM
pianowizard pianowizard is offline
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Originally Posted by Zapatan View Post
Wow it's 4 feet away from being an official high-rise (328 feet is 100 meters)
From this Wikipedia article:

Various bodies have defined "high-rise":
  • Emporis defines a high-rise as "A multi-story structure between 35–100 metres (115–328 ft) tall, or a building of unknown height from 12–39 floors."
  • According to the building code of Hyderabad, a high-rise building is one with four floors or more, or 15 to 18 metres (49 to 59 ft) or more in height.
  • The New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary defines a high-rise as "a building having many storeys".
  • The International Conference on Fire Safety in High-Rise Buildings defined a high-rise as "any structure where the height can have a serious impact on evacuation"
  • In the U.S., the National Fire Protection Association defines a high-rise as being higher than 75 feet (23 m), or about seven stories.
  • Most building engineers, inspectors, architects and similar professionals define a high-rise as a building that is at least 75 feet tall.
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  #225  
Old Posted May 4, 2021, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by pianowizard View Post
From this Wikipedia article:

Various bodies have defined "high-rise":
  • Emporis defines a high-rise as "A multi-story structure between 35–100 metres (115–328 ft) tall, or a building of unknown height from 12–39 floors."
  • According to the building code of Hyderabad, a high-rise building is one with four floors or more, or 15 to 18 metres (49 to 59 ft) or more in height.
  • The New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary defines a high-rise as "a building having many storeys".
  • The International Conference on Fire Safety in High-Rise Buildings defined a high-rise as "any structure where the height can have a serious impact on evacuation"
  • In the U.S., the National Fire Protection Association defines a high-rise as being higher than 75 feet (23 m), or about seven stories.
  • Most building engineers, inspectors, architects and similar professionals define a high-rise as a building that is at least 75 feet tall.

I guess everyone's definition differs, same with "skyscraper". Some people call a 10 story building a skyscraper, I disagree.

Personally I think 100+ meters is a high-rise, especially somewhere like NYC but they can think what they want and have lower standards than me

I think a "skyscraper" is 200+ meters and "supertall" is 400+ meters by today's standards.

Not that it matters too much, this project is still better than an empty parking lot. If 80 South Street and 2WTC ever happen at their colossal height (I guess 5WTC too to a lesser extent) I won't care enough about this, there will be better things happening downtown.
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  #226  
Old Posted May 6, 2021, 2:12 PM
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And now this...


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/06/n...velopment.html

How a $180 Million Parking Lot Could Change N.Y.C.’s Historic Character
Will a skyscraper at the South Street Seaport set a precedent for development in historic districts?





This parking lot has been protected as a historic landmark since 1977. Now a developer has been given permission to build a tower on it.


By Amy Sohn
May 6, 2021


Quote:
For more than 40 years, real estate developers have been intoxicated by an asphalt trapezoid at 250 Water Street. It has East River proximity, high visibility from the Brooklyn Bridge and the Brooklyn Heights promenade and — as far as open space in downtown Manhattan goes — it is big: nearly 50,000 square feet. But this particular lot, whose spots ran about $20 an hour on weekdays, is in the South Street Seaport Historic District, which means that anyone seeking to build even a toolshed there must first secure permission from the Landmarks Preservation Commission.

Though that might have deterred some developers, the Howard Hughes Corporation nevertheless paid about $180 million for the lot in 2018. Howard Hughes had made several building proposals to the commission, culminating this week with a plan for a 324-foot-tall mixed-use luxury tower. Though zoning laws prohibit any building higher than 120 feet in the South Street Seaport district, Howard Hughes has cleared the first hurdle toward fulfilling its dream of a skyscraper taller than the Brooklyn Bridge in an important, and visible, part of Lower Manhattan.

After years of grass-roots meetings and protests, community board hearings, more than 1,000 letters (pro and con) and an 8,500-signature petition, it appears that 250 Water — also known as Block 1, Lot 98 — will finally cease to be a parking lot.
Quote:
On Tuesday, the Landmarks Preservation Commission voted 6-2 to issue what is called a certificate of appropriateness, a crucial first step in Howard Hughes’s march to city approval. Sarah Carroll, the chair of the commission, said the only loss of historic fabric was “of a parking lot that is an intrusion in the historic district.”

“An approval here would not set a precedent for any other site in any other historic district,” she added.

Commissioner John Gustafsson, one of the two who voted against the certificate, said: “There are literally thousands of appropriate alternatives. We are not being offered one of them.” He added that he realized he was in “the unenviable position” of having to choose between a tower and an “obviously detrimental parking lot.”
Quote:
One of the most vocal proponents of the development is at first glance one of the most unlikely: the president and chief executive of the South Street Seaport Museum, Capt. Jonathan Boulware. He is a historic ships expert whose museum honors the birthplace of New York and its rise as a port city. Captain Boulware supports the project in part because Hughes had pledged a gift of as much as $50 million to the museum as part of its plan.

The gift, Captain Boulware said, would give the museum stability for the first time in its 50 years and prevent the museum from folding. He hopes to reopen soon after decades of financial struggle.

Two other surprising allies were Councilwoman Margaret Chin, who represents the area, and Manhattan’s borough president, Gale Brewer, both of whom will serve important roles in getting the project approved by the city. In 2008, Ms. Chin, who was then running for City Council, opposed another developer’s project, saying, “A 40-story tower has no place in the Seaport,” while Ms. Brewer said of a 2014 Hughes plan, “Building a tower at the South Street Seaport is like building a tower at Colonial Williamsburg.”
Quote:
Elaine Kennedy, a retired physical therapist who has lived in Southbridge for 46 years, and whose Brooklyn Bridge view would be unaffected by the 250 Water building, said residents had “been actively involved in this fight to keep the district low-scale since back when we were Mitchell-Lama.”

Last November, Ms. Kennedy and other members of the opposition group she helped found, Seaport Coalition, hatched their own plan for 250 Water at the governor and borough president offices’ behest as part of the planning review process. The group called it Resiliency Park. It would include a storm-water detention system to guard against storm surges, as well as rooftop botanical gardens. Unfortunately, its distinguishing feature was a municipal tow pound that would be relocated from Midtown.

The Resiliency Park idea was greeted with gleeful mockery by Howard Hughes allies like Catherine McVay Hughes, a museum board member who was the Community Board 1 chair during 9/11. “A tow pound was never a community amenity,” she said.

“Catherine McVay Hughes clearly doesn’t know what the community needs or what the plan entailed,” said Ms. Malvern, who is also a Seaport Coalition member. “A tow pound is capable of surviving a massive flood.”

But a tow pound is off the table for now. With Landmarks having approved a certificate of appropriateness, Howard Hughes’s plan will enter the city’s review process.

“We are looking at litigation and working with an attorney to that end,” Ms. Malvern said. If they can delay city approval past December, a new City Council member, borough president or mayor might halt the development.

“Families never would have gone to the school if they knew a gross high-rise was going to go up,” Ms. Malvern said. “It was a safe place and idyllic elementary school, where kids would be learning about the Seaport, cobblestone streets and the formation of the city.”


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  #227  
Old Posted May 6, 2021, 2:28 PM
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God, what a joke.

The only reason the parking lot was added to the historic district is because the rent-controlled fossils in Southbridge Towers didn't want their river views blocked.

The NYC building approvals process is such a freaking nightmare. We went from a beautiful supertall to a stumpy background tower of zero note. Hopefully they build a supertall on the remaining waterfront site as a big FU to the NIMBYs.
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  #228  
Old Posted May 6, 2021, 4:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
The NYC building approvals process is such a freaking nightmare. We went from a beautiful supertall to a stumpy background tower of zero note. Hopefully they build a supertall on the remaining waterfront site as a big FU to the NIMBYs.
As predicted, they're not even happy with the shorter tower. I wonder how they would like it if the alternative was to put the new Manhattan jail on this lot. They'd take the 1,000 ft tower I'm sure.
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  #229  
Old Posted May 6, 2021, 7:24 PM
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this already kind of looks like the Manhattan Jail tower proposal...
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  #230  
Old Posted May 6, 2021, 8:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
God, what a joke.

The only reason the parking lot was added to the historic district is because the rent-controlled fossils in Southbridge Towers didn't want their river views blocked.

The NYC building approvals process is such a freaking nightmare. We went from a beautiful supertall to a stumpy background tower of zero note. Hopefully they build a supertall on the remaining waterfront site as a big FU to the NIMBYs.
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  #231  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2021, 7:49 PM
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This went under the radar, but it was approved by the City Council last week.

A 345' mega tower (per the local NIMBYs) will be rising!
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  #232  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2021, 8:42 PM
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Originally Posted by The New York Lion View Post
This went under the radar, but it was approved by the City Council last week.

A 345' mega tower (per the local NIMBYs) will be rising!
It wasn’t under the radar. All enthusiasm about it was just lost when they cut it down to less than filler. At least that parking lot will be gone, so that’s a win.
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  #233  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2021, 5:27 PM
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Howard Hughes Corporation Awarded Final Approvals To Construct 250 Water Street In South Street Seaport, Manhattan

Quote:
The Howard Hughes Corporation has received necessary approvals to construct a new 26-story mixed use development at 250 Water Street in South Street Seaport, Manhattan. Designed by Skidmore, Owings & Merrill (SOM), the tower will comprise a mix of market-rate and affordable rental apartments, an office component, retail space, and community facilities.

Contingent on these approvals is a donation of $40 million to the new South Street Seaport Museum. Additional investments from the developer include $9.8 million toward resiliency infrastructure and capital improvements at Titanic Park and a $3.75 million investment to expand maritime uses by facilitating vessel docking on the east and north sides of Pier 17.

Total project costs for the new development are estimated at $850 million.

“Throughout my tenure, I have been proud to advocate for mixed-income housing throughout my district, especially affordable housing in areas long out of reach for so many working families,” said New York City Council Member Margaret Chin. “The 250 Water Street project will not only transform an outdated parking lot into high-quality mixed-income housing, it will also provide a critical lifeline to one of my district’s—and our city’s—most treasured cultural institutions, the South Street Seaport Museum.”

The 324-foot-tall building and the surrounding grounds will replace a full-block surface parking lot. The tower volume will contain the vast majority of residential area and is set atop a five-story podium. The latter will house Class-A office space, the retail suites, and unspecified community facilities. Of the total residential yield, at least 70 of the apartments will be designated for families earning an average of 40 percent of area median income, or roughly $45,000 for a family of four.

The Howard Hughes Corporation has also obtained approval from the city to extend the ground lease for city-owned properties at the Seaport to 99 years.

“The approval of 250 Water Street represents an important moment in the continued revitalization of the Seaport district, and the economic and cultural recovery of Lower Manhattan,” said Manhattan Borough President Gale A. Brewer. “I am pleased that this will result in 70 new affordable apartments and an endowment of sustainable funding for the South Street Seaport Museum, a beloved organization that I have supported for many years.”

These approvals arrive after years of pushback and litigation from neighborhood activists despite support from elected officials, city agencies, and the Landmarks Preservation Commission, which granted a certificate of approval for the project in May 2020. The development also successfully passed the comprehensive Uniform Land Use Review Procedure, which included review by Manhattan Community Board 1, the Manhattan Borough President, the New York City Planning Commission and the New York City Council.

The activists’ most recent suit to overturn the LPC’s ruling was quickly dismissed in October 2021.

“This important project will play a vital role in New York City’s recovery through the creation of a new mixed-income rental building, office space, neighborhood infrastructure improvements, and critical funding to ensure the long-term success of the treasured South Street Seaport Museum,” said Saul Scherl, president of the New York Tri-State Region for The Howard Hughes Corporation. “We are firmly committed to a bright future for the Seaport neighborhood, and our 250 Water Street project is at the heart of our vision for this vital and historic part of the city.”

Construction is expected to begin in 2022. When complete, the 250 Water Street development is expected to generate $1 billion in government revenue and create more than 3,300 permanent positions and construction jobs.
=====================
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  #234  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2021, 5:50 PM
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
It wasn’t under the radar. All enthusiasm about it was just lost when they cut it down to less than filler. At least that parking lot will be gone, so that’s a win.
I'm more excited that at least it will block one of those hideous mitchel lama buildings from the BB view.
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  #235  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2021, 6:08 PM
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I had thought it was 2 shorter towers? Only one then, I gather? Still, a LOT better than a landmarked parking lot, of all things. If that in itself isn't Alice in Wonderland crazy, what is????
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  #236  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2022, 5:05 PM
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Love to read about a parking lot biting the dust.
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  #237  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2022, 7:17 PM
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This entire land use approvals process is a joke and needs to be reformed.

We go from a soaring landmark supertall to a nondescript filler tower. Worse skyline and streetscape, less tax revenue, less new housing. Also less money for the expanded Seaport Museum and for local community improvements.

And why? Because a few rent controlled for life grannies in an ugly subsidized housing complex didn't want their river views partially blocked.

Mayor Adams, fix this mess. NIMBYs need to be stymied from blocking the land use approvals process.
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  #238  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2022, 7:40 PM
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Love to read about a parking lot biting the dust.
I actually prefer the parking lot to this blob. I bet if HHC waited a few years, they would have been able to build one of their preferred plans.
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  #239  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2022, 8:08 PM
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I actually prefer the parking lot to this blob. I bet if HHC waited a few years, they would have been able to build one of their preferred plans.
I like it. I used to live downtown, and it fits in with the area. The base looks great.
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  #240  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2022, 8:54 PM
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I actually prefer the parking lot to this blob. I bet if HHC waited a few years, they would have been able to build one of their preferred plans.
One of the things I love about Manhattan's skyline is that is has a "spine." The tallest towers are (mostly) in the central part of the island below 60th (the exception being Hudson Yards and a couple other examples). It gives this great sense of depth. I would have loved a taller tower of course. Just look at my user name. On the other hand, this won't block views of 130 William or NY by Gehry. While no great achievement, this tower will help the Downtown skyline rise from the river to the top of 1WTC.
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