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  #1061  
Old Posted May 16, 2022, 8:40 PM
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Originally Posted by GeoNerd View Post
I love how the armchair urbanists and armchair engineers on this forum truly believe that this bridge would be on the verge of collapse within 10-15 years. It’s honestly too ridiculous to even reply to.
And I love how you, an armchair urbanist and engineer, seem to think that the experts employed by the city, and had access to the engineering inspections, who recommended that the bridge be torn down made the wrong decision, because in your mind it could have been used as a flower garden or MUP at no additional cost in perpetuity. Not only are their regular engineering and liability expenses for preserving a bridge, but when it does come to the end of its life (or need a major overhaul to prevent chunks from falling on the highway), people will expect it to be replaced.
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  #1062  
Old Posted May 16, 2022, 9:30 PM
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
And I love how you, an armchair urbanist and engineer, seem to think that the experts employed by the city, and had access to the engineering inspections, who recommended that the bridge be torn down made the wrong decision, because in your mind it could have been used as a flower garden or MUP at no additional cost in perpetuity. Not only are their regular engineering and liability expenses for preserving a bridge, but when it does come to the end of its life (or need a major overhaul to prevent chunks from falling on the highway), people will expect it to be replaced.
Unlike yourself I’m not an armchair urbanist/engineer. I speak from experience. Repurposing infrastructure can make great places. Also, I like how the thought of replacing or even providing maintenance decades down the road to a green space or MUP is the worst case scenario to you.
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  #1063  
Old Posted May 16, 2022, 9:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoNerd View Post
I love how the armchair urbanists and armchair engineers on this forum truly believe that this bridge would be on the verge of collapse within 10-15 years. It’s honestly too ridiculous to even reply to.
And I love how you, an armchair urbanist and engineer, seem to think that the experts employed by the city, and had access to the engineering inspections, who recommended that the bridge be torn down made the wrong decision, because in your mind it could have been used as a flower garden or MUP at no additional cost in perpetuity. Not only are their regular engineering and liability expenses for preserving a bridge, but when it does come to the end of its life (or need a major overhaul to prevent chunks from falling on the highway), people will expect it to be replaced.
** Just so that there aren't any misunderstandings, as we do have some engineers in the forum, it's possible that GeoNerd is an engineer, but all they told us was that they have "been in land development for over 20 years" and worked at civil engineering firms. Reference
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  #1064  
Old Posted May 17, 2022, 2:43 PM
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We have people from multiple backgrounds here, we have urbanism fans, we have people in the construction industry, everybody has an opinion or ideas. We should respect all ideas, and rightly challenge/debate them.

But the unnecessary condescending tone isn't required. Can we stop with "my pecker is bigger than yours" type of conversation regarding our qualification and stop pushing others ideas down under the pretense of being a "know it all"?

(rant over, thank you)

On another note, the wire mesh fencing installation is progressing quite well. Just a bit sad that there's already graffities on the concrete and the project isn't even done yet.
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  #1065  
Old Posted May 17, 2022, 4:43 PM
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Originally Posted by GeoNerd View Post
Unlike yourself I’m not an armchair urbanist/engineer. I speak from experience.
Do you even know my educational and professional background to make such an assumption? Look back at my previous posts on this discussion and I have refrained from making definitive statement about the bridge for good reason. Regardless of your background, unless you performed an engineering inspection of the bridge (or have reviewed the report from the engineer who did) you don't have enough data to give a proper analysis. One would hope that anyone with their P.Eng. (or even been through the iron ring ceremony) wouldn't make definitive statements about the structural integrity of the bridge without data to back up their statement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoNerd View Post
Repurposing infrastructure can make great places.
It can, but it doesn't always.

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Originally Posted by GeoNerd View Post
Also, I like how the thought of replacing or even providing maintenance decades down the road to a green space or MUP is the worst case scenario to you.
It is a value for money proposition.

For the MUP option, to be useful it needs to go from somewhere useful to somewhere useful. That would mean building a bridge over the new tracks on the north end, and building a MUP around the golf course and through an environmentally sensitive area on the north end, neither of which will be cheap (not to mention any upgrades the overpass itself would require to make it safe for the new purpose).

For the green space option, you are only gaining about 500 m^2 of new greenspace (the part over the highway, since the approaches will be greenspace either way). Given that it wouldn't be easy to access and the city would likely want to keep people off of for liability reasons, I struggle to see the value for money.

This is all assuming that the new alignment of the 174 is compatible with where the bridge supports of the overpass were.
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  #1066  
Old Posted May 17, 2022, 6:01 PM
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For the record, I do not think I know more than others on the forum. There are many intelligent people on here that are likely far more educated than me. But if someone posts something that is outrageously false, they should be called out or corrected. I would expect the same if I did. Happy posting.
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  #1067  
Old Posted May 17, 2022, 6:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoNerd View Post
For the record, I do not think I know more than others on the forum. There are many intelligent people on here that are likely far more educated than me. But if someone posts something that is outrageously false, they should be called out or corrected. I would expect the same if I did. Happy posting.
I appreciate and relate to this comment. I'm wrong all the time on here, and my opinions change with the hour, but no hard feelings when I'm called or corrected out in a non abrasive fashion .
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  #1068  
Old Posted May 17, 2022, 9:34 PM
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Originally Posted by GeoNerd View Post
But if someone posts something that is outrageously false, they should be called out or corrected.
The problem is, there's a pattern of you deciding in this thread and others that other people's perspectives are outrageously false and using a borderline aggressive/dismissive/insulting tone to beat them down, which lowers the tone of the forum. So please, chill a bit before you hit 'reply'. We're just here to exchange ideas.
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  #1069  
Old Posted May 17, 2022, 9:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Admiral Nelson View Post
The problem is, there's a pattern of you deciding in this thread and others that other people's perspectives are outrageously false and using a borderline aggressive/dismissive/insulting tone to beat them down, which lowers the tone of the forum. So please, chill a bit before you hit 'reply'. We're just here to exchange ideas.
Exactly. 'Non-abrasive' is the key heh heh.
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  #1070  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2022, 9:54 PM
JCL JCL is offline
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VIDEO: Trim Road Realignment

I just posted a video of Trim Road between Taylor Creek and RR1174 (and north of RR174 to Jeanne d'Arc Blvd North)

The video consists of the realigned Trim Road that went into affect last year (August 2021), as well as the original Trim Road alignment prior to Stage 2 LRT.

Video Link
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  #1071  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2022, 4:20 PM
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Some late June Snapshot updates from O-Train Fan contributors:

Jeanne d'Arc





https://otrain.railfans.ca/snapshot-...n-june-18-2022

Guideway





https://otrain.railfans.ca/snapshot-...y-june-18-2022
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  #1072  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2022, 7:13 PM
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Here's to hoping they straighten out the wobbles in track before backfilling(photo 3). This will be a nice stretch to get the train up to speed.

There is a section heading east out of Cryville which is about the most flatout section there is and the track wobbles back and forth a bit when the throttle should be pinned. Bugs the heck out of me every time.

It's interesting to have the black chain link fence. Some silly provincial guideline I suppose? someone will run across the forest/field/ditch/highway/jersey barrier and intrude on the tracks.

This was probably brought up earlier but there should be a half wall of noise barrier. Not for noise but road spray. Those trains will be filthy in the winter, nevermind the salt. I guess the idea of seeing the train pass by you in traffic seems advantageous for city planning.
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  #1073  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2022, 7:31 PM
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Originally Posted by ponyboycurtis View Post
Here's to hoping they straighten out the wobbles in track before backfilling(photo 3). This will be a nice stretch to get the train up to speed.

There is a section heading east out of Cryville which is about the most flatout section there is and the track wobbles back and forth a bit when the throttle should be pinned. Bugs the heck out of me every time.

It's interesting to have the black chain link fence. Some silly provincial guideline I suppose? someone will run across the forest/field/ditch/highway/jersey barrier and intrude on the tracks.

This was probably brought up earlier but there should be a half wall of noise barrier. Not for noise but road spray. Those trains will be filthy in the winter, nevermind the salt. I guess the idea of seeing the train pass by you in traffic seems advantageous for city planning.
Yeah, no barrier to cross the highway with a constant flow of cars going 120 km/h, but a train every 2 minutes, we'll put up jersey barriers and chain link fence.

Renderings showed noise barriers instead of chain link fences. This is cheaper, I guess.


https://otrain.railfans.ca/station/jeanne-darc
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  #1074  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2022, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponyboycurtis View Post
Here's to hoping they straighten out the wobbles in track before backfilling(photo 3). This will be a nice stretch to get the train up to speed.

There is a section heading east out of Cryville which is about the most flatout section there is and the track wobbles back and forth a bit when the throttle should be pinned. Bugs the heck out of me every time.

It's interesting to have the black chain link fence. Some silly provincial guideline I suppose? someone will run across the forest/field/ditch/highway/jersey barrier and intrude on the tracks.

This was probably brought up earlier but there should be a half wall of noise barrier. Not for noise but road spray. Those trains will be filthy in the winter, nevermind the salt. I guess the idea of seeing the train pass by you in traffic seems advantageous for city planning.
Track can't be put in final alignment until it is ballasted. The ballast is spread, then a tamper will make multiple passes to position the track in final alignment. This process is repeated as part of the maintenance cycle, so any wobble you feel is intended to be there at this point, and not the result of poor installation.

The chain link serves a variety of purposes. Regardless of the difficulty, there is always a chance someone gets to the median because of a breakdown, stopped traffic or other issue on the road, or a train needs to evacuate. It also serves as a catch fence for any errant items from passing vehicles. Finally, it has reasonable anti-glare properties.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Yeah, no barrier to cross the highway with a constant flow of cars going 120 km/h, but a train every 2 minutes, we'll put up jersey barriers and chain link fence.

Renderings showed noise barriers instead of chain link fences. This is cheaper, I guess.


https://otrain.railfans.ca/station/jeanne-darc
Those renderings are of the stations, and we still haven't seen what will be installed there.
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  #1075  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2022, 8:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catenary View Post
Track can't be put in final alignment until it is ballasted. The ballast is spread, then a tamper will make multiple passes to position the track in final alignment. This process is repeated as part of the maintenance cycle, so any wobble you feel is intended to be there at this point, and not the result of poor installation.

The chain link serves a variety of purposes. Regardless of the difficulty, there is always a chance someone gets to the median because of a breakdown, stopped traffic or other issue on the road, or a train needs to evacuate. It also serves as a catch fence for any errant items from passing vehicles. Finally, it has reasonable anti-glare properties.



Those renderings are of the stations, and we still haven't seen what will be installed there.
A lot of really helpful and appreciated insights here! Thanks for taking the time to post those thoughts for our benefit.
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  #1076  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2022, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catenary View Post
Track can't be put in final alignment until it is ballasted. The ballast is spread, then a tamper will make multiple passes to position the track in final alignment. This process is repeated as part of the maintenance cycle, so any wobble you feel is intended to be there at this point, and not the result of poor installation.

.............
Good Day.

There had been an image of the rail alignment and tamper machine in the Phase 1 website, but that is long gone. So....

This is an image of the machine from YouTube :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaFJvqD3DI8

I do not recall if this is EXACTLY the machine we had, but it is very close.
I saw it waiting to be used just west of Blair station as they were welding the rail, and subsequently watched it in operation.

Also from YouTube :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gIv_o0LR4k

A good explainer of the action of the machine.

Furthur..... the more passes of the machine, the better the alignment, and the smoother the ride. But there is a point of diminishing returns for the expense and time.

Also, the explainer machine is a bit more comprehensive and exacting in its operation; the machine we used is a bit less accurate, so would need more passes.

They neglect to explain the wheeled pantograph equipment in front -
it is to assist guidance and detect the misalignment of the rail as the machine passes over,
and to let the machine bring the rail into line as it tamps it in place.

This process is also assisted by 2 laser guidance systems , one on the pantograph reading back to the machine,
and one two-part system, with emitter-detectors on the machine reading emitter-reflectors mounted down the RoW both ahead and behind the machine to improve keeping to the line of the RoW.

Finally, this overall is part of what happened to give the first Trillium Line (then called the O-Train) its first improvement - CVR instead of jointed rail.
It allowed straighter rail, and less wear-and-tear on both the old rail and the Talent's wheels, which were proving to be a maintenance nightmare.
It HAD to be done to continue operating the trains. These systems just cannot be used on jointed rail - it's useless, the rail quickly falls out of alignment again.
But that first run of the O-Train was fun - the clackety-clack and swing-and-sway of old-time travel.

EnJoy!
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  #1077  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2022, 4:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catenary View Post
Track can't be put in final alignment until it is ballasted. The ballast is spread, then a tamper will make multiple passes to position the track in final alignment. This process is repeated as part of the maintenance cycle, so any wobble you feel is intended to be there at this point, and not the result of poor installation.

The chain link serves a variety of purposes. Regardless of the difficulty, there is always a chance someone gets to the median because of a breakdown, stopped traffic or other issue on the road, or a train needs to evacuate. It also serves as a catch fence for any errant items from passing vehicles. Finally, it has reasonable anti-glare properties.



Those renderings are of the stations, and we still haven't seen what will be installed there.
I am aware that this wouldn't be the tracks final alignment but I do appreciate the correction. I was making the comment half-jokingly as there are a few spots on the existing line that certainly have a wobble.

You raise good points about the fencing I just figured a short barrier would be more effective.
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  #1078  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2022, 5:40 PM
Hybrid247 Hybrid247 is offline
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The draft Orleans Corridor Secondary Plan was just uploaded to devapps: https://devapps.ottawa.ca/en/applica...2-0008/details

Interesting to note that the entire park and ride at Trim is designated for 40 storeys (which I'm sure TN will be pleased to see )
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  #1079  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2022, 5:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hybrid247 View Post
The draft Orleans Corridor Secondary Plan was just uploaded to devapps: https://devapps.ottawa.ca/en/applica...2-0008/details

Interesting to note that the entire park and ride at Trim is designated for 40 storeys (which I'm sure TN will be pleased to see )
Nice to see plans for proper, separated bike lanes. The whole plan looks good. Hoping that this sparks higher-density developments. Orleans may have a proper Vancouver suburb type skyline one day.

What bothers me is seeing sfh and townhouses being built in Kanata along the future O-Train. We need these types of proper plans for all O-Train corridors, current and planned.
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  #1080  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2022, 7:52 PM
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What bothers me is seeing sfh and townhouses being built in Kanata along the future O-Train. We need these types of proper plans for all O-Train corridors, current and planned.
Really? Where are you talking about?
  • Between March/Eagleson Station and Kanata Town Station, most of the construction was done in the early 2000's (thus before any of this was planned). Even still it is mostly townhomes (at least the ones closest to the line).
  • West of Kanata Town Station it is mostly mid-rise buildings.
  • Terry Fox Station and Didsbury Station are surrounded mostly by retail.
  • At Campeau Station, south of Campeau Drive it is all zoned Development Reserve (DR). North of Campeau Drive, it is mostly zoned R3YY and most of the homes closest to Campeau are townhomes. Only as you get further from the station do you start to see and SFHs. Not optimal, but better than what is currently near the Orleans stations.
  • Palladium Station will be close to the CTC and the auto park. Yay
  • Maple Grove Station (which might technically be Stittsville), the few SFH nearby were built in 2005. The newer developments are townhomes and there are plans for a few low to mid rise buildings.
  • Hazeldean Station (technically Stittsville) is mostly surrounded by retail.

I've always said I don't see much point extending the O-Train beyond Terry Fox Station though.
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