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  #61  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2015, 1:24 AM
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Here are the basics; we need the Civic Hospital to stay (near) downtown. Why is the proposed site the best site? Because it is near the Heart Institute and the old hospital which will likely be converted to a Bruyère type facility or medical clinics.

Yes, Dow's Lake or Lebreton could work, but those areas should be reserved for mixed used development.

Yes, the proposed location, just like the current location, is not near rapid transit, but the fact is you don't have a clear am/pm rush hour, nor do you ever have a few thousand people going at the same time (as we would see with a sports facility). Traffic flow to and from is pretty consistent throughout the day so rapid transit is not necessary. Place bus lanes on Carling, and we're fine. The City might even build classic LRT along Carling.

Why 60 acres when the current site is only 25 acres? Expansion. Just look at the current campus. We started with that small "H" shaped building in the 20s and expanded until we ended with this sprawling campus with no room to grow. That's why we need 60 acres. To avoid the current issues, I would recommend planning all the expansions now (at least general massing of future buildings) instead of taking on mismatched buildings over the years.

And the farm? How about we create a new satellite site in the greenbelt to replace the 60 acres? Simple solution. Much easier to re-locate a freakin' farm then a cities premiere health care facility. Ya sure, soil, current studies, so on and so forth. They had 10 years warning that the site was considered for a new hospital and now have 20 years to finish up and pack up before shovels are in the ground.

Last edited by J.OT13; Sep 25, 2015 at 2:50 AM.
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  #62  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2015, 2:45 AM
Urbanarchit Urbanarchit is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Here are the basics; we need the Civic Hospital to stay (near) downtown. Why is the proposed site the best site? Because it is near the Heart Institute and the old hospital which will likely be converted to a Bruyère type facility or medical clinics.

Yes, Dow's Lake or Lebreton could work, but those areas should be reserved for mixed used development.

Yes, the proposed location, just like the current location, is not near rapid transit, but the fact is you don't have a clear am/pm rush hour, nor do you ever have a few thousand people going at the same time (as we would see with a sports facility). Traffic flow to and from is pretty consistent throughout the day so rapid transit is not necessary. Place bus lanes on Carling, and we're fine. The City might even build classic LRT along Carling.

Why 60 acres when the current site is only 25 acres? Expansion. Just look at the current campus. We started with that small "H" shaped building in the 20s and expanded until we ended with this sprawling campus with no room to grow. That's why we need 60 acres. To avoid the current issues, I would recommend planning all the expansions now (at least general massing of future buildings) instead of taking on mismatched buildings over the years.

And the farm? How about we create a new satellite site in the greenbelt to replace the 60 acres? Simple solution. Much easier to re-locate a freakin' farm then a cities premiere trauma centre. ya sure, soil, current studies, so on and so forth. They had 10 years warning that the site was considered for a new hospital and now have 20 years to finish up and pack up before shovels are in the ground.
I tend to disagree with the underestimation of traffic patterns. We don't have the same volume going to the hospital as you do government office workers going to work, but we have two shift-start times that need to be accomodated: 7am shift change, 9am office/clinic opening hours. We then have several hundred people coming throughout the day that contribute enough traffic for the area that transit needs to be considered. Hospitals should be considered a major transit node when planning transportation, as currently the main way that people get to work or for visits is by driving.

What's interesting is that after 90 years the hospital still hasn't managed to use up all 25 acres their site currently has, and as Jack Kitts said in an article:

Quote:
“We do a lot of primary and secondary care here that hopefully will be picked up in the community and by community hospitals,” Kitts said. “So I think, if things were to work out the way I’d envision it, the new campus may be a bit smaller, because there’d be more expansion at the Queensway (Carleton) and the Montfort and the other community hospitals and in the community. So it’s hard to say, and it’s early days, but I don’t see it being bigger.”

The new Civic would do tertiary and quaternary care: extremely specialized surgeries like organ transplants, along with groundbreaking experimental treatments.

When it’s done, in 15 to 20 years, the hospital would depart the existing Civic campus on the north side of Carling. That could be renovated for some other health-care use, the way the old Riverside Hospital became a centre for specialized clinics and day surgeries, or it could be torn down.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...-farm-property
If it's going to be tertiary and quaternary services, they wouldn't need a larger campus than they currently have. In fact, if they chose to be more efficient with the property they currently have they could probably accommodate the services they intend to provide.

The issue is the Experimental Farm isn't just a farm. It's a premiere research area that has been operating for over a century, and where people have no expected they'd have to shut down because the land would be sold off by the Feds. It's isn't like your regular food-producing farm that has been in a family for generations, and shouldn't be thought of such. Develop the Greenbelt if you want, but this tract of land shouldn't be developed. As for the location, the hospital needs to be in the most central location we can get it. If it's close to our new LRT we're building (including the O-train) and in a densely populated neighbourhood we can reduce the number of people driving to work or for visits. No amount of BRT or streetcars on Carling could reduce the car-dependency of most people going to there. As for the Dow's Lake area needing development: there's already more than enough space in Little Italy to create a mixed-use neighbourhood. We wouldn't be missing out if that site is chosen as a hospital - in fact, we'd be making the area even more mixed-use as hospitals provide amenities much like museums or sports arenas. All in all, there is no need to develop the Experimental Farm.

By the way, as someone who works in that trauma "centre" it's not that difficult to relocate. It's a total of 12 beds in 9 rooms, 4 beds are typically used for bariatric patients instead. It's the smallest ward on campus and needs less space than even the ICU or NOA/NACU.
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  #63  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2015, 2:53 AM
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Does anyone know why they didn't consider any other sites other then the Farm and the boonies on Hunt Club at Woodroffe?
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  #64  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2015, 3:07 AM
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Does anyone know why they didn't consider any other sites other then the Farm and the boonies on Hunt Club at Woodroffe?
They originally planned to move out to Kanata because land away from downtown is cheaper. They considered the Farm because the NCC/Baird offered it to them cheaply, which was likely as a political move. I'm willing to bet it has more to do with land prices.
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  #65  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2015, 3:36 AM
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Airports have restricted height limits nearby not to interfere with flights, but I don't know if something similar exists for helicopters. It might not be a problem, but it's worth considering.
The new hospital in North Bay couldn't have it's helipad on the roof, because if the building were ever expanded with additional stories in the future, the helipad would be in the approach to the airport. Instead, it's across the parking lot and an ambulance takes the patient the last few hundred metres.

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Nor...!6m1!1e1?hl=en

YOW is so far away I can't see it being an issue.
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  #66  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2015, 1:38 PM
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They originally planned to move out to Kanata because land away from downtown is cheaper. They considered the Farm because the NCC/Baird offered it to them cheaply, which was likely as a political move. I'm willing to bet it has more to do with land prices.
That would have been a disaster. Even if the Feds hadn't offered up the corner of the Farm, if you're going to build a multi billion dollar hospital complex, at least pick the right location for a couple million more. This Civic is arguably the last downtown hospital (depending on whether you consider Alta Vista and Carson Grove "downtown"). We went from 5+ facilities down to 1 over the last century. You can't move the last one to Timbuktu.

High density downtown, where we continue to encourage further densification, you need full services, you need a hospital. Not just for the people living and working on any normal day, but to respond to any possible disaster or threat.

Last edited by J.OT13; Sep 25, 2015 at 1:51 PM.
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  #67  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2015, 2:48 PM
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Why wasn't the large city owned land near Bayview Road considered? Or expropriate the Merkley Supply lands across the street. The area could be developed along the lines of the discovery district in Toronto.

It's wait closer to the downtown, good connections to the parkway, Scott Street, the Core, and about as good as a connection to the highway as the Civic has now.


It's just Baird doing his backroom deals again.
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  #68  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2015, 3:21 PM
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They originally planned to move out to Kanata because land away from downtown is cheaper. They considered the Farm because the NCC/Baird offered it to them cheaply, which was likely as a political move. I'm willing to bet it has more to do with land prices.
This. As I mentioned on the previous page many people who work on the Farm didn't know anything about this plan until Baird announced the land transfer deal publicly last year at a news conference. Many Federal workers saw this as an election type political ploy to get voters. And as many people in Ottawa and this forum know, many federal workers are not fond of the Harper Conservatives.

Also, you can't simply move the Farm and its experiments to the greenbelt. Soil conditions are completely different - there are over 40 types of soil just on the Farm itself. If this was some sort of hobby farm or cash crop business then of course you could move it to the Greenbelt. But this is a research centre and experimental farm. For example, more than 25 superior cultivars of wheat, oats, barley and soybeans developed in the past 5 years at the Farm. It functions to help all Canadian farmers and develop new harvesting methods for our harsh winters and short growing season.

The Farm is well into a second century as a location for successfully addressing Canadian science and production problems, while providing beautiful surroundings in which to do it.
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  #69  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2015, 3:32 PM
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Science is meaningless to these ideologues. So don't waste your time quoting facts and figures.

The farmers almanac is a more meaningful tool for these people and those who would vote for them. They don't listen to "so-called experts". 'They're the ones who got us into this mess in the first place.'

Of course, as an educated person myself I don't follow the cfra nation or old-wives tales. But we have to face the ugly reality that a significant portion of the voting population does.
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  #70  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2015, 4:24 PM
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This would be my candidate for a better location:



The opportunity for a 'discovery district' that could synergize with existing transit connections, and spread intensification opportunity down the Trillium Line and into Tunney's Pasture (private practices want to be close to hospitals).

It would be more expensive, but better for the actual city. Could be integrated into Bayview Station. Has good connection to the parkway which means faster (no lights) ambulance connection to the west end via Carling, the downtown core, Westboro, Hintonburg ect ect. It, along with development lands down the Otrain line could be an anchor for redevelopment and the centralization of out-patient clinics. And if need be it could be expanded to the Tom Brown Arena site (administrative or residences) or the park.

You'd also have some quite nice views and access to parkland for people actually in the hospital. Long term planning could integrate it into an STO transfer site across the old rail line and a interprovincial transit hub.

Who's to say you couldn't integrate an arena or community centre into say the podium of a hospital administrative complex. Let's think outside the box and build better.

There's also a massive plot of land just out of frame that is NCC parkland, but half the foot print could be a long term care centre/hospice with the other half parkland and good connections to the waterfront for you know, people who are in their last days.

Also it wouldn't destroy a significant portion of a Federal institution that has existed since 1880-something in a back room deal by a now defunct politician.
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  #71  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2015, 7:40 PM
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But what would become of "snow mountain"?
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  #72  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2015, 8:22 PM
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Don't fool yourself, Baird will be back. Once the story breaks after the election I predict that he will become Canada's first openly LBGT Govenor General.
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  #73  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2015, 8:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Mikeed View Post
This would be my candidate for a better location:



The opportunity for a 'discovery district' that could synergize with existing transit connections, and spread intensification opportunity down the Trillium Line and into Tunney's Pasture (private practices want to be close to hospitals).

It would be more expensive, but better for the actual city. Could be integrated into Bayview Station. Has good connection to the parkway which means faster (no lights) ambulance connection to the west end via Carling, the downtown core, Westboro, Hintonburg ect ect. It, along with development lands down the Otrain line could be an anchor for redevelopment and the centralization of out-patient clinics. And if need be it could be expanded to the Tom Brown Arena site (administrative or residences) or the park.

You'd also have some quite nice views and access to parkland for people actually in the hospital. Long term planning could integrate it into an STO transfer site across the old rail line and a interprovincial transit hub.

Who's to say you couldn't integrate an arena or community centre into say the podium of a hospital administrative complex. Let's think outside the box and build better.

There's also a massive plot of land just out of frame that is NCC parkland, but half the foot print could be a long term care centre/hospice with the other half parkland and good connections to the waterfront for you know, people who are in their last days.

Also it wouldn't destroy a significant portion of a Federal institution that has existed since 1880-something in a back room deal by a now defunct politician.
Stop it, it makes too much sense.
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  #74  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2015, 12:27 AM
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Agriculture Canada employees unhappy about Experimental Farm land transfer to hospital
Elizabeth Payne, Ottawa Citizen

Scientists and senior managers at Agriculture Canada were unhappy about plans to relocate the Civic campus of The Ottawa Hospital to 60 acres of the Central Experimental Farm, with one manager telling a scientist no one in the government cared that irreplaceable research would be destroyed.

Edward Gregorich, a scientist whose experiments would be lost under the plan, emailed the associate director of the Eastern Cereal and Oilseed Research Centre on Nov. 4, 2014, the day after former Conservative MP John Baird and hospital CEO Dr. Jack Kitts made a surprise announcement that one of the most historic fields in the Experimental Farm would become the site of a new Civic hospital, according to documents obtained by the Citizen.

Gregorich wondered whether there had been any consultation about the move, noting that his long-term work in Field No. 1 where the hospital is to relocate is “core to my research” and “irreplaceable.”

“I know,” replied Marc Savard, associate director of the centre under which much of the research was taking place. “They didn’t care. Well, AAFC (Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada) cared. No one else.”

Gregorich wrote that abandoning tillage and crop rotation research on that site “would mean the loss of 24 years of accumulated ecological knowledge. More importantly, it would mean re-starting the experiment elsewhere and delaying by several decades the findings so urgently needed by farmers.”

Loss of the research, wrote Gregorich, “would undermine the value of the international network, tarnish the Central Experimental Farm’s leadership in this experiment and negate the findings most pertinent to our climate and soil conditions.” The loss of the land would negatively affect scientists around the world, he added. Some of the research in that field contributed to the 2007 Nobel Peace Prize, which was awarded to the International Panel on Climate Change.

Baird also received letters after the announcement expressing concern about the future of the research and of the Experimental Farm, as well as the lack of public consultation on the issue. In addition, scientists from around the world have expressed dismay at the potential loss of the research.

At the time of the announcement, Agriculture Canada’s Assistant Deputy Minister Siddika Mithani sent employees a memo assuring them that the farm “is not for sale” and research will continue.

“The CEF has served Canadians for many generations and it will continue to do so. It is a rare jewel in our Capital city that affords a rich green space as well as providing the means to conduct science that improves the lives of Canadians.”

However, documents obtained under the Access to Information Act by researcher Pete Anderson show a number of Agriculture Canada officials were concerned about loss of research land — amounting to 15 per cent or more of all research fields on the farm, according to the documents — as well as the size of the proposed hospital site.

Many feared the chunk of land to be transferred would require Experimental Farm roads to be rerouted, which would have an even greater impact on the farm than originally thought. At the public announcement of the land transfer late last year, a map was released showing a block of about 60 acres at the north-west corner of the Farm at Carling and Fisher avenues, ending at Ash Lane on the east.

But a spokesman for Agriculture Canada said that the boundaries for the new hospital site have since been re-drawn and they require Ash Lane to be rerouted.

“This rerouting is not expected to impact research fields,” said spokesman Patrick Girard. “The actual development of the site is not likely to begin for a number of years. ”

Girard added that Agriculture Canada will work with the NCC and The Ottawa Hospital to develop land use and design guidelines for development that “will ensure the protection of the cultural landscape of historic and architectural significance.”

While the government has approved the memorandum of understanding between the hospital, Agriculture Canada and the NCC, which is managing the land transfer, the transfer agreement has not been finalized.

epayne@ottawacitizen.com
Ottawa Citizen Article
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  #75  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2015, 3:44 PM
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Stop it, it makes too much sense.
Agree - Some politicians cannot think outside the box!!!!
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  #76  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2015, 11:43 PM
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Hospital wanted to delay public meetings about moving Civic to Experimental Farm

Elizabeth Payne, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: September 28, 2015 | Last Updated: September 28, 2015 5:25 PM EDT


The chief operating officer of The Ottawa Hospital pushed to delay public consultations until a deal to build a new Civic campus on a 60-acre chunk of the Central Experimental Farm was complete, documents show.

There has been virtually no public information about the plan to build the $2.5-billion hospital on one of the oldest research fields on the historic farm since former MP John Baird and hospital chief executive Jack Kitts made the surprise announcement last November. The lack of consultation has frustrated city councillors representing nearby communities.

Officials with the National Capital Commission, which is managing the transfer of the land to be used for the new hospital, now says there will be consultations soon, although no date has been set.

But the public will not have a say in whether the hospital should move to the farm; that decision was made by the federal government and is irrevocable. Instead, members of the public will be asked for input into design guidelines for the hospital and surrounding property.

At a planning meeting in April to discuss the project, hospital chief operating officer Cameron Love tried to delay public consultations until the deal was complete.

Officials from Agriculture Canada and the National Capital Commission recommended early public consultations “to foster goodwill with the community,” according to documents obtained through Access to Information by PhD student Pete Anderson.

But Love pushed back.

“The Ottawa Hospital (TOH) voiced concern on the public consultation process occurring prior to the signing of the agreement to transfer and outline the need for the creation of an integrated public consultation process once the agreement had been signed,” notes from the meeting revealed.

NCC spokesperson Jasmine Leduc said Friday that public consultations on design guidelines would go ahead “before the land transfer is finalized. Timelines are not yet confirmed.”

But River Ward Coun. Riley Brockington, who has met with hospital officials over the plans, said he and Kitchissippi Coun. Jeff Leiper have hit roadblocks trying to push for a public information. They were told several times there would be a public meeting, but have since been told there will be none until after the Oct. 19 federal election.

“My community is hungry for minor preliminary details. I believe all these type of decisions should be open and public and you allow the public to observe the decision making process,” he said. “We are on the eve of the first anniversary of the announcement and they have said point blank that there will be no public meeting before the election. To me, this is absolutely absurd.”

Both Brockington’s and Leiper’s wards border on the proposed hospital site.

They are not the only ones raising concerns about the lack of public information on the proposal, which could have a major impact on the farm and the area around it.

“There are already letters out there noting that the decision was made without stakeholder consultation,” an Agriculture Canada official worried in an email shortly after the land transfer was announced.

Numerous scientists and groups that support the Central Experimental Farm have written to officials to express their concerns about the loss of long-running scientific experiments, including ongoing, irreplaceable soil research that contributed to the winning of the 2007 Nobel Peace Prize.

There were internal concerns about the project, too, including that the case had not been made for why the hospital needs to move to the northwest corner of the farm rather than one of the other sites considered.

About six month before the deal was announced, a consultant working with Agriculture Canada raised concerns in an email to an officials with the NCC that the hospital had not made a strong case “as to why this site … especially given implications for the National Historic Site and impact on research programs … we need this to address potential negative reaction by stakeholders as well.”

A communications document to be used on the day the transfer was announced attempted to answer the question why the site was chosen.

“The City of Ottawa, the NCC and The Ottawa Hospital evaluated nine possible sites for the new Civic Campus. Based on this evaluation, it was determined that the most suitable option is to develop a new Civic Campus across from the existing campus on the CEF lands.”

The talking points also noted that the NCC, Agriculture Canada and The Ottawa Hospital would work together to make sure design guidelines “ensure the protection of the cultural landscape of historic and architectural significance.”

epayne@ottawacitizen.com

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...erimental-farm
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  #77  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2015, 1:13 PM
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I think part of the problem here is that Ottawa has an expectation that hospital land will be provided by the federal government for free (remember when NCC tried to charge rent to the Queensway Carleton) whereas in other cities site acquisition would be the responsibility of the hospital and province and they would have to buy/expropriate land they felt is most appropriate. As others have noted, if it has to be on federal land, and it has to be on the west side of downtown then there are not a whole lot of options, and this would at least provide the opportunity to relocate slowly rather than all at once.

It's not like the farm has been treated as particularly sacred. The Liberals had no problem selling a huge chunk to developers in the 90s (for a Nortel complex and other buildings). Over the years various buildings such as the former John Carling building, the Dominion Observatory, and a slew of other buildings and labs have been built all over the site. Plus the NCC cut a parkway right through the farm and a huge chunk is just lawn.

I think there needs to be a decision on what the farm is supposed to be. Is it supposed to look like a farm and provide a rural landscape in the middle of the city? If that is the case the parkway should stay but a whole lot of Ag Canada and NRCan buildings should be relocated and any space not needed for research fields should be turned over the the museum. It is it supposed to be a place where research is the focus and public buildings can take up a big chunk of land? If that is the case then a hospital seems like a reasonable use of the land.
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Old Posted Nov 13, 2015, 5:56 PM
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Experimental Farm advocates hope Liberals reverse plan to give land to new Civic hospital

Elizabeth Payne, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: November 13, 2015 | Last Updated: November 13, 2015 12:18 PM EST


A year ago, a plan brokered behind closed doors for 60 acres of prime scientific research land to be given to The Ottawa Hospital to rebuild its Civic campus came as a shock even to those who work on the Experimental Farm. Now, writes Elizabeth Payne, opponents of the plan hope a new Liberal government that says it’s committed to transparency and science will revisit the decision.

The Central Experimental Farm is such a beloved institution in Ottawa that volunteers contribute 10,000 hours every year helping to keep its public areas clean and beautiful. Friends of the Farm describes itself as a “charitable organization of committed volunteers and supportive members who care about the Farm in Ottawa.”

Where were these committed volunteers when they learned last year that a 60-acre chunk of the national historic site, founded in 1886 by Sir John A. Macdonald, would be severed to make way for a new hospital? They were blindsided by the announcement and later, according to some members, they were muzzled from expressing concern — even threatened by the federal government with disbandment and an end of cooperation if the group openly criticized the plan.

Slapping down volunteer gardeners might seem like a heavy-handed way for a federal government to help find space for a new hospital, but it helps to explain why public reaction to the plan has been somewhat muted, especially compared with the vocal outrage over plans to put a memorial to victims of communism near the Supreme Court of Canada.

The issue is complicated, though. The Civic campus of The Ottawa Hospital, which opened its doors on Carling Avenue in 1924, needs to be replaced. Regular expansions have resulted in what has been called a Frankenstein complex — ungainly and renovated beyond its practical limits — which is why The Ottawa Hospital has been planning for a new super-hospital for years.

While scientists from around the world have expressed shock that a key research field could be dug up to make way for a hospital, to many Ottawa residents who strongly support a new hospital, it just looks like another farmer’s field.

Still, volunteers, heritage activists, scientists and others are hoping the election last month of a new federal Liberal government that vows to be more transparent and to bring a new level of respect for scientists means the issue will be revisited.

“I am really hoping the government will review this,” said Grace Strachan, a former urban planner with the National Capital Commission who sat on the Central Experimental Farm advisory council. “I am very concerned about the decision to remove such a large piece of the farm, which is also a national historic site.”

“They need to reverse this,” added Kate Harrigan, who is active in the Civic Hospital community association and is involved with Friends of the Farm. “This is a big problem.”

River Ward Councillor Riley Brockington, whose ward borders the proposed site, has tried for months to hold a public meeting with hospital officials to explain to community members how the site was selected and what comes next. He is still waiting.

He is meeting with new Environment Minister Catherine McKenna, though, whose riding includes the farm. On Thursday McKenna said she had been “hearing from residents” with concerns about it, but wasn’t aware of any plan to review the decision. The issue is the responsibility of Mélanie Joly, the new Liberal minister of Canadian Heritage who was unavailable for an interview on the subject.

Blindsided

The announcement — on Nov. 3, 2014 by former Conservative MP John Baird and Ottawa Hospital President and CEO Jack Kitts that the hospital would get 60 acres of the farm on which to build a new Civic campus — took almost everyone by surprise. The press conference was the result of negotiations involving The Ottawa Hospital, Agriculture Canada and the National Capital Commission, done behind closed doors and with no public consultation.

Friends of the Farm was not the only organization blindsided by the announcement. Members of the Central Experimental Farm Advisory Council — an appointed group whose mandate is to “provide advice and recommendations to Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada on the future of the Farm” — learned about the plan in the newspaper. The council was set up in 1998 when the Central Experimental Farm was declared a national historic site. At the same time, Agriculture Canada declared the farm lands would “remain in public ownership.” Transferring land for use of a hospital arguably follows that rule, but it might not be in keeping with the sentiment.

Even scientists whose lifetime’s work would be destroyed to make way for the hospital only found out about the plan when it was announced. Farm researchers were sent a letter from Agriculture Canada officials the same day, assuring them that the farm was not “for sale” and emphasizing that the land was being leased and not sold. (The plan calls for the land to be severed from the farm and transferred to the NCC, which would lease it to the hospital for a nominal amount, final details of which have yet to be completed.)

According to emails obtained by the Citizen, Edward Gregorich, a scientist whose experiments would be lost under the plan, emailed the Eastern Cereal and Oilseed Research Centre on the day after Baird and Kitts made the announcement. Gregorich, whose work contributed to the 2007 Nobel Peace Prize for climate change, wondered whether there had been any consultation about the plan, saying his long-time work in historic Field No.1, where the hospital is to relocate, was core to his research and “irreplaceable.” He wrote that abandoning the crop rotation and tillage research on the site would mean the loss of 24 years of accumulated ecological knowledge and delay by several decades the findings “so urgently needed by farmers.”

“I know,” replied Marc Savard, associate director of the centre. “They didn’t care. Well, AAFC (Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada) cared. No one else.”

Harvey Voldeng, a career researcher at the farm who, although retired, continues to work on research, said the announcement came out of nowhere. “We (employees) were completely taken by surprise by that. Usually in an organization there are not too many secrets, at least not that they can keep. It hit everybody as a big surprise.”

Ron Bonnett, president of the Canadian Federation of Agriculture, complained of the “lack of transparency around the fact that there was a sale or assignment of land for the hospital without really talking to some of the people who were involved in the agricultural side before the decision was made.”

A new hospital site

While the plan surprised many, plans to build a new Civic campus is not new. In 2008, the hospital floated the idea of putting a new building at Hunt Club and Woodroffe in the city’s southwest. At the time, officials noted that a new hospital would handle the most serious trauma patients and sophisticated surgeries and be a tertiary centre for the region, not a neighbourhood hospital.

In 2012, Kitts and others from the hospital started talking about the Experimental Farm across from the Civic as another possible site. That got a quick negative response from Agriculture Canada and others. Richard Hinchcliff, director of communications with Friends of the Farm at the time, said the idea was “like putting an apartment building on Parliament Hill.”

Meanwhile, the National Trust for Canada, a national charity dedicated to saving historic places, has placed the Central Experimental Farm on its list of Canada’s most endangered places, and opposition to the move is growing, including among scientists from around the world.

The Ottawa Hospital says it considered 12 sites before settling on the Experimental Farm land across from the current Civic campus, two of which were also on the farm: Baseline and Fisher and the site of the since-demolished Sir John Carling Building off Carling Avenue.

Other sites considered included Hurdman Station, Woodroffe and Baseline beside Algonquin College, across from the Nepean Sportsplex on Woodroffe, the former Nortel campus at Carling and Moodie, Confederation Heights at Riverside and Heron, Tunney’s Pasture, Booth Street and the Hunt Club South Corridor. Rebuilding on the current site, a hospital spokesperson said, would be prohibitively costly and add years to the construction time.

Selection was based on a dozen criteria, including that the site be either central “or towards the west or south west of the city,” that it allow for multiple road access points for emergency vehicles, the public and deliveries, that it be close to major transportation and transit routes, that it allow “flexibility for future expansion over and above what is currently planned,” that there be minimal impact on nearby communities and that the land does not require significant preparation. It also considered the impact on agriculture and “Canada’s research mandate,” the ease of getting hydro, sewer and gas to the site and the impact of the transition from the current site to the new site.

By many of those measures, moving the hospital across the street to an undeveloped lot is the easiest option.

But Harrigan, who lives near the hospital and is involved with Friends of the Farm, said there are more things to consider than convenience. “Obviously it is a no brainer for them to want to be as close to what they currently have as possible, but this should not be about a minister parachuting in and saying: ‘Here is some land.’ Where is the transparency?”



International treasure

Pete Smith, a professor of soils and global change at Aberdeen University in Scotland, wrote to former federal Agriculture Minister Gerry Ritz in February asking the government to reconsider.

“This would be an incredibly unfortunate time to lose such an international treasure. History would judge this a very short-sighted decision.”

An official with Agriculture Canada said the 60 acres in question makes up 5.7 per cent of the farm’s 1,052 acres and “there is sufficient land on the CEF to accommodate the research program.” Researchers, however, say the land amounts to 15 per cent or more of actual research lands.

The final boundaries for the new hospital, which stretch along Carling Avenue roughly mirroring the hospital across the street, would force the end of research on two fields in addition to the rebuilding and rerouting of a number of farm roads. When the plan was announced, hospital officials released a map that showed the new hospital would be on land that now contains historic Field No. 1, but would not go beyond that field. But the final boundaries show the new hospital would take over two research fields and require farm roads to be moved, something an Agriculture Canada official suggested — in emails obtained by the Citizen — was not what the minister had in mind.

The new boundaries, obtained by the Citizen, show the land to be severed for the hospital is bordered by the Scenic Driveway in the west, Carling in the north and as far as the current helipad in the east, almost to the Agriculture Canada buildings on Carling Avenue. The land transfer will require the permanent rerouting of portions of Ash Lane and Winding Lane and would require some plots east of Ash Lane where work on improve yields and resistance of corn, wheat, oats, barley, soybeans and canola is currently being done, to move to another part of the farm.

NCC CEO Mark Kristmanson noted that the move would mean “the loss of a portion of this very important heritage cultural landscape and heritage site.” But he added that the “social benefit, broadly speaking, is hard to argue against.”

The alternatives, Kristmanson said, “are not fantastic. When you think of the densification coming in this city, when you think of the growing health care needs of this city, and you think of the actual condition of the Civic Hospital and the fact that it is strained in its life cycle, it’s hard to imagine that it would be preferable to locate this hospital much further out.”

Harrigan said she is hopeful that cabinet ministers in the Trudeau government — which has made both science and climate change priorities — will understand how critical the land in question is. Research on Field No. 1 gave the International Panel on Climate Change information about the storage of carbon in soil. “It is critical land. It is not to be paved over for a parking lot.”

National Historic Site Under Pressure

When the farm was designated a national historic site in 1998, the Historic Sites and Monuments Board of Canada called it a “distinct cultural landscape” and noted that it had made significant scientific contributions to agriculture in Canada, including the development of hardy strains of wheat “that were so influential in expanding western Canadian agriculture.”

It also noted that the 400-hectare farm in the heart of the nation’s capital “reflects the 19th century philosophy of agriculture and carefully integrates an administrative core and a range of other buildings with arboretum, ornamental gardens, display beds and experimental fields in a picturesque composition.”

However, commemoration as a national historic site is an honorific and does not provide protection, says Leslie Maitland, past-president of Heritage Ottawa, which opposes the land transfer.

“The federal government can provide protection for the national historic sites that it owns and manages, but only if it wants to,” she said. “In the case of the Farm, Minister John Baird, then responsible for Foreign Affairs and the National Capital Commission, simply announced the severance for the use of a new hospital.

“There was no account taken of the significance of the farm as a national historic site or as an internationally significant agricultural research station, whose long-term researches on these specific acreages have contributed to our food security and the success of the agricultural sector of our economy.”

Maitland said she would like to see a better public justification for why the northwest corner of the farm was chosen over other sites. And, crucially, she argues that the Historic Sites and Monuments Act needs some teeth to better protect such sites, a sentiment echoed by Harrigan.

Hospital of the future

The new hospital is intended to be smaller and more efficient than current hospitals. Even with population growth, it will likely not have any more beds than the existing hospital.

According to hospital’s chief of staff, Dr. Jeff Turnbull, it will work as a hub with spokes throughout the community. Many of the services currently provided at the hospital will be available in the community or in patients’ homes. Even some surgeries will likely be moved out of the Civic to existing community hospitals or, possibly, new facilities where they will be less costly than at the region’s trauma and high-level care centre. Its focus will be on the most advanced forms of health care, including cardiac surgery, transplants, spinal surgery and neurosurgery, according to Turnbull and CEO Jack Kitts.

This vision of the Civic — redrawn as a centre for only the sickest patients and the most high-tech and highly skilled surgeries — argues against the need for a new hospital to be centrally located. It will no longer be the neighbourhood hospital it was when first opened in 1924.

What’s next

The Ottawa Hospital says it is “working with our partners to create a consultation schedule” — something expected soon. When that happens, the consultations will focus on design and landscaping, rather than the location of the new hospital.

“Elements of landscaping are going to be critical,” said Nicholas Galletti, director of strategic media at the National Capital Commission. “So that it doesn’t have an overarching impact on the rest of the farm, so the farm can still operate and the hospital can be integrated into the area.”

While River Councillor Brockington continues to wait for a public meeting to have officials answer questions, a number have actually been cancelled by the hospital. According to documents, Agriculture Canada and the NCC recommended early public consultations to foster goodwill, but Ottawa Hospital officials pushed back, saying consultations shouldn’t happen until the land transfer is complete.

Meanwhile, volunteers, advocates, scientists and others are watching the early days of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s government to see if reviewing plans to sever 60 acres of the Central Experimental Farm is on its to-do list.

epayne@ottawacitizen.com

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...civic-hospital
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  #79  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2015, 6:46 PM
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J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
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If they don't build it at the Experimental Farm, that's fine, but it needs to be downtown. 3-4-9-10-12. 5-8 is too close to the General Campus, 6 and 7 are too close to the QCH and, like every other option too far from downtown.

Last edited by J.OT13; Nov 13, 2015 at 7:51 PM.
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  #80  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2015, 7:14 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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On the other side of the helipad is all AAFC buildings, lawn and parking lots. Maybe they could relocate some of those off site and put the hospital there.
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