LUX [1178 Cummings Ave & 1098 Ogilvie Rd] | 27/79/85/110m | 8/25/27/35f | U/C

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I live around here. The project seems a bit too big for the area. The apartment building across the street is eight storeys. Kinda sad that more mid-sized developments aren't happening.

And the hotel seems out of place. I would think the hotel makes more sense at Blair. Nobody staying at this hotel is going to walk or use transit. Especially to CSIS, CSE or NRC.

Glad to see some development though. Sad to see Claude's chip wagon and fruit stand go. I wonder how the power lines in the area will be dealt with.

The project will be located south of the hydro corridor, no?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

The project will be located south of the hydro corridor, no?

I guess so. I didn't fully understand the drawings earlier. Claude's going to need a second wagon!

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I guess so. I didn't fully understand the drawings earlier. Claude's going to need a second wagon!

If you look at the siteplan here, you can see that the hydro corridor is immediately to the north of the site, not part of it. Claude will still have lots of room to sell his fries and Christmas trees.

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...2&postcount=35

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

If you look at the siteplan here, you can see that the hydro corridor is immediately to the north of the site, not part of it. Claude will still have lots of room to sell his fries and Christmas trees.

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...2&postcount=35

Solid news. Business will be booming then!

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

I wonder if Richcraft is kicking itself for having scaled back the density of Place des Gouverneurs just for a quick buck ten years ago. I notice they no longer have that development in their website so it must be going through a big rethink.

I don't get this point of view. The original vision for PDG was fantastic. Almost European. Lots of 6-8 storey walkup buildings in a pretty moderately dense neighborhood. It's when they flipped to the centre plot being 20-storey condos that they drew opposition and couldn't really close the deal. That's when they built the Brownstones which sold decently. One set is rentals and they seem to do well too.

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

That central lot between Villeneuve and Beauparc is crying out for several high-rises with a neighbourhood retail podium. All that surface parking 100 metres from an LRT station (and right against green space!) is such a crime.

The original three buildings have underground parking. The Brownstones are the only ones with surface parking. And it's done well with a laneway at the back. That is what kept these places affordable. And ensured their saleability during the half decade where there was no Transitway or LRT service. Whatever they build in the plots that are left are bound to have underground parking.

I hope they do some 10-storey buildings with stores at the bottom. I'd like to see an actually livable urban neighborhood here. Not just a condo farm. This was the original plan:



Their site plan with that high rise was horrendous.

Originally Posted by bradnixon

That, and there is vacant land right at Cyrville on either side of Beauparc.

Per my understanding those were originally supposed to be commercial buildings or mixed use. I wonder if that has changed.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I live around here. The project seems a bit too big for the area. The apartment building across the street is eight storeys. Kinda sad that more mid-sized developments aren't happening.

And the hotel seems out of place. I would think the hotel makes more sense at Blair. Nobody staying at this hotel is going to walk or use transit. Especially to CSIS, CSE or NRC.

Glad to see some development though. Sad to see Claude's chip wagon and fruit stand go. I wonder how the power lines in the area will be dealt with.

It's out of scale now, but that's how every high-density district starts. I often use Vancouver as an example, where clusters of towers are seen all along the suburban stretches of the Skytrain.

I agree with the hotel. A standard short stay hotel would have been better. A long-stay business type hotel as proposed would do great at Blair, close to those government departments named, and services such as grocery stores (long-stay=kitchen).

[Truenorth00]

The hotel makes no sense at all. And it's why they need so many parking spots. That's not TOD to be honest. There's plenty of hotel rooms in the area too. Look at the Labelle-Lemieux cluster. Where hotel rooms are needed is near Blair. Scrapping the hotel would also have allowed for a better distribution of building heights, with all the buildings under 30 storeys.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

The hotel makes no sense at all. And it's why they need so many parking spots. That's not TOD to be honest. There's plenty of hotel rooms in the area too. Look at the Labelle-Lemieux cluster. Where hotel rooms are needed is near Blair. Scrapping the hotel would also have allowed for a better distribution of building heights, with all the buildings under 30 storeys.

I see no reason for a 'better distribution of heights.' This area is a blank canvas, it doesn't need to be scaled to the neighbourhood because there isn't really a neighbourhood. I think it could be a great catalyst for one, however.

[J.OT13]

PdG was far better than what we had seen in Hull/Aylmer's Le Plateau for the first two decades, but with the introduction of rail and this new proposal at Cummings and Ogilvie, we'll surely see a major re-think. That said, I have more faith in Richcraft than most other developers in their ability to propose/build something of quality with a more urban vibe.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Harley613

I see no reason for a 'better distribution of heights.' This area is a blank canvas, it doesn't need to be scaled to the neighbourhood because there isn't really a neighbourhood. I think it could be a great catalyst for one, however.

It's not a "blank canvas". There are buildings in the area. It's kinda ridiculous that the entire development is across from an 8 storey apartment building. The tallest PdG building is 6 storeys. Even with the elevation difference, a full 28 storeys of the tallest tower would be visible from PdG. I can't even imagine what residents in the co-op on the other side of Ogilvie must be thinking.

Sure, it's mostly TOD (hotel aside). But it's not great urban design. More broadly, as we've seen in the pandemic, small buildings (< 8 storeys) are much more livable (less elevator use needed) than tall ones. We should be pushing for better urban design. Not just tall buildings at the expense of absolutely everything else. I want Ottawa to end up looking more like Paris and less like Mississauga or Dubai....

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

PdG was far better than what we had seen in Hull/Aylmer's Le Plateau for the first two decades, but with the introduction of rail and this new proposal at Cummings and Ogilvie, we'll surely see a major re-think. That said, I have more faith in Richcraft than most other developers in their ability to propose/build something of quality with a more urban vibe.

I'm hoping that a lot of the high rise demand is sucked up in this development and Richcraft pursues a more midrise plan for the space left. Though I fear the profit potential is way too tempting.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I'm hoping that a lot of the high rise demand is sucked up in this development and Richcraft pursues a more midrise plan for the space left. Though I fear the profit potential is way too tempting.

Richcraft bought the land when it was cheap, so they may still build a more human scale project. Or flip it.

[Kitchissippi]

What I picture would be good at the PdG site is something like the Newport Village development in Port Moody BC. The old original plan was nice but it lacked services and retail activity.

[J.OT13]

That would be awesome, all along the Confederation and Trillium lines.

[Truenorth00]

Something like this would be awesome. Not what I expect to be built in Ottawa, where as we learned half the councillors (including Tim Tierney) are funded by developers outside their ward.

This is city is slowly getting the Mississauga treatment....

[J.OT13]

With the excitement of the design and height of this one (though questions on the hotel and parking), I hand't considered retail. Tried to find a ground floor plan or any mention of retail (found one vague mention), but I'm still unsure. Does anyone know if it includes any retail at all? I feel like it could support a restaurant and small food store, maybe a small pharmacy.

Again hope Richcraft can quickly re-design PdG to include a pedestrian orientated "town-centre" with basic retail needs, medium density and maybe a few towers closest to Cyrville.

[acottawa]

I wonder what lifestyle they're selling here. Is the expectation that people will go to the transit station and then go downtown for stuff, that the retail in the neighborhood will align with the needs of this complex or that it is super convenient to drive to various places from there? From the design it sort of seems like the last one.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I wonder what lifestyle they're selling here. Is the expectation that people will go to the transit station and then go downtown for stuff, that the retail in the neighborhood will align with the needs of this complex or that it is super convenient to drive to various places from there? From the design it sort of seems like the last one.

It will indeed be super convenient to drive places from there...

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I wonder what lifestyle they're selling here. Is the expectation that people will go to the transit station and then go downtown for stuff, that the retail in the neighborhood will align with the needs of this complex or that it is super convenient to drive to various places from there? From the design it sort of seems like the last one.

I would agree. The whole Cyrville area is so auto-oriented and anti-pedestrian. Even the walk to Cyrville Station will be unpleasant as will access to St. Laurent Shopping Centre, which is also within walking distance. This development will be about driving to and from pretty well everything except for commuting to downtown. I can't see more than the most basic retail being on-site.

We have blown up the old village of Cyrville, vacated all the old residents, lost the schools and church, and replaced it with everything auto oriented. It will take an awful lot to reverse this.

[Truenorth00]

The church is still there. And in use.

And the walk to the station has improved in the last few months with the bike lanes and curbs they've built. The area isn't pedestrian friendly because there's nothing worth walking to, but the station. Value Village is literally the largest the largest non-resident passenger draw.