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  #281  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2020, 8:34 PM
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https://twitter.com/ManhattanCB5/sta...50554587021317

Quote:
On Mon 7/13 @ 6p, we're holding a virtual Joint Committee Meeting to review the plan for Penn Station area redevelopment.


To participate in our Mon meeting, be sure to register in advance:

https://www.cb5.org/cb5m/calendar/20...-environment_1

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  #282  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2020, 2:58 PM
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I think this site will be home a the first new York city megatall !!
Cause there are a large area .
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  #283  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2020, 3:30 PM
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Originally Posted by faridnyc View Post
I think this site will be home a the first new York city megatall !!
Cause there are a large area .
Oh man that would be so nice to get one, not just for New York but also for the Western Hemisphere's architectural competitiveness. I'm cautiously hopeful that we'll top something out at 2k-ish feet in the next 15 years
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  #284  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2020, 8:59 PM
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The community board meeting from last week...



Video Link



Basically, they think that there should be federal funding for the Penn Station project, so there would be no need for the added density around Penn to pay for it. Nothing more than a brainstorming session to try and find ways or excuses to stop it. This is why I dislike any community board input, advisory though it may be. Just a formal meeting for NIMBYs. At this time, when sources of funding are so scarce for anything, they want to hang their hat on that. One idiot wants to use Covid as an excuse not to build the office towers.
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Last edited by NYguy; Jul 20, 2020 at 9:12 PM.
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  #285  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2020, 4:41 PM
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https://nylandmarks.org/news/propose...-hudson-yards/

Empire Station Complex Would Dwarf Hudson Yards


Quote:
And we thought Hudson Yards was huge. If the State gets a go-ahead for a proposed “Empire Station Complex” around Penn Station, it will dwarf Hudson Yards. The proposal calls for 14 million square feet of new office space, 800,000 square feet of retail and nearly 1,300 new hotel rooms. The Complex would overrule local zoning and impose no height limits on new buildings.

Empire State Development (ESD) began advancing the proposal yesterday, holding a virtual “scoping session” that drew speakers pro and con. A Community Board 4 member criticized “a Robert Moses like approach” displacing residents and businesses. Many persons said the proposal emphasized density over transit and criticized a lack of information about transit improvements.

Community Board 5 called for federal funding to allow less density and protecting a view corridor to the Empire State Building. Others called for including affordable housing and community services. There was support for saving historic buildings and adapting other buildings in the area. Business groups and unions spoke in support.

Under the plan, which Governor Cuomo announced in January, the State would buy, or take buildings by eminent domain, on eight large sites. ESD describes the area as “substandard and insanitary” with “outdated office buildings” and “bland nondescript retail offerings.”

The area also contains several historic buildings on, or eligible for, the National Register of Historic Places. These include a power station service building on West 30th Street that is the last building remaining from the original Penn Station, a West 31st Street church designed by noted architect Napoleon LeBrun, and the Hotel Pennsylvania.

The stated goal is for the new development to provide funding for improvements at Penn Station and public realm benefits. There are no details yet on how the money would be raised, spent, or administered. Yesterday was the start of a lengthy public review process. We will participate and report on how it progresses.
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  #286  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2020, 12:03 AM
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Another take on the old JDS proposal...


https://www.instagram.com/p/CCRdU89iFND/

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  #287  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2020, 1:23 AM
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Here's the actual public scoping meeting (not the community board) from Monday....


Video Link




















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  #288  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2020, 10:02 PM
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Some testimony...


https://www.nysenate.gov/newsroom/pr...omplex-project

Testimony on Empire Station Complex Project

BRAD HOYLMAN
July 22, 2020


Quote:
On behalf of U.S. Representative Carolyn B. Maloney, U.S. Representative Jerrold Nadler, State Senator Brad Hoylman, State Senator Robert Jackson, Assembly Member Richard N. Gottfried
We appreciate the opportunity to submit comments regarding the Draft Scope of Work for the Empire Station Complex Project.
Quote:
Our districts, which cover portions of the neighborhood in and around Penn Station and the proposed expansion, have seen enormous residential and commercial growth over the last two decades. The increase in scale and density on Manhattan’s West Side as a result of rezonings and development has led to a dramatic increase in the number of people who live and work around Penn Station and who rely on this transit hub.

The priority of the draft scope of work needs to be to create a transit hub for the City and surrounding areas that drastically reduces greenhouse gas emission and encourages multimodal use of public transit.

The proposal lacks a commitment to both the commercial and residential tenants that will be displaced as a result of this project, and to meeting the needs for community facilities, public space, or affordable housing.
Quote:
ESD must incorporate greatly increased mixed-use affordable housing into the plan, particularly at Sites 1 and 4, but should also consider other sites located in both CD4 and CD5. Relocation of the displaced residents and commercial tenants should be considered in this analysis as well. As increased residential use is incorporated, the scope should include an assessment of how this will change the need for schools, healthcare, C1 commercial, and other neighborhood facilities.

The scope should examine how Madison Square Garden can be incorporated so as not to be an impediment, or moved within the neighborhood so as to support the transportation goals of a modernized Penn Station. We ask that ESD continue to consult MSG in this endeavor.
Quote:
As a regional hub that serves commuters from multiple states, the availability and incorporation of federal funding should be examined. Alternatives to the sale of development rights should be examined and the Scope should prove that alternative funding mechanisms are not available. We would like a clear plan for the transfer of air rights, should the air rights not sell, to ensure that the high density burden does not fall on unsuspecting places in our communities. We also request that the plan include an alternative to spread the transfer of development rights outside the immediate area, mitigating the potential for increasing overdevelopment of this area.
Quote:
The proposed reduction of 190,000 square feet of community facilities will impact the users of the numerous nonprofits and social services institutions in the area. Organizations that will be displaced include the heavily-used Antonio Olivieri Drop-in Center, the New York Restoration Project, and the Wounded Warrior Project, on Site 2, and Touro College on Site 1. The organizations that provide critical social services in the community, including those for homeless individuals, should be considered an integral part of the Complex and have free or nominal rent in exchange for the services they provide. The displacement of social services, affordable units and small businesses must be studied and temporary locations during construction, on-site replacements and potential additions must be proposed. Other nonprofits should receive assistance in relocating if on-site locations cannot be found, at a nominal or subsidized rent.
Quote:
The open space analysis should be conducted for both residential and commercial needs, as the plan will be adding many new populations to the area from the high density commercial buildings, shoppers and new retail, commuters, and new residents from the surrounding community. The open space proposed at Site 2 is insufficient to meet this future growth. It is important that tree planting and opportunities to “green” the open space be studied, as this creates another opportunity to improve air quality as well as the pedestrian experience of the areas.
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  #289  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2020, 7:08 PM
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Vornado has been very patient, (some would say too slow), in waiting to redevelope the area. With 1 and 2 Penn moving forward, and Farley nearing completion, the stage is set for the other pieces to come together.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-office-market

Facebook’s Big Lease Shows Confidence in Manhattan Office Market

By Natalie Wong
August 4, 2020


Quote:
The future for Manhattan offices is looking up.

Big New York landlords have insisted that demand for offices would rebound after the pandemic, which curtailed deals and shuttered towers for months, sending everyone to work from home. Now, Facebook Inc.’s new lease at Vornado Realty Trust’s Farley Building, a former post office near Pennsylvania Station, is adding credence to that thesis.
Quote:
Facebook is taking over the whole office portion of the property, a commitment that Vornado Chief Executive Officer Steven Roth called “a dramatic statement” by one of the world’s premiere tech companies.

“This deal reinforces New York City as a great, unique place to do business,” Roth said on a conference call with analysts. “With an unlimited highly educated workforce, New York continues to be the place to be.”
Quote:
Facebook’s latest lease ends Vornado’s years-long search for a tenant for the Farley Building, part of a $2 billion plan to modernize what the real estate investment trust calls the Penn District.

The deal is “proof that businesses intend to return to the office,” and provides a boost to Vornado’s broader redevelopment plan, Piper Sandler Cos. analyst Alexander Goldfarb wrote in a note to clients.
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  #290  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2020, 2:21 AM
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Summary of CB5 land use committee resolution...



https://www.cb5.org/cb5m/resolutions.../resolution_9/

Central Station Complex - aka Penn Station Redevelopment GPP

July 2020, Land Use, Housing & Zoning Committee


Quote:
Community Board Five Executive Committee unanimously passed the following resolution with a vote of 9 in favor; 0 opposed; 0 abstaining::

WHEREAS, the New York State Urban Development Corporation d/b/a as Empire State Development (ESD) is the sponsor of a land use proposal to redevelop all or a portion of nine tax blocks around Penn Station; and

WHEREAS, the proposed development would be located on blocks 783, 809, 808, 807, 781, 780, and 806 located in Community Board Five (MCB5) and blocks 755 and 754 located in Community Board Four MCB4;
Quote:
- TRANSIT AND TRANSPORTATION

Community Board Five notes that the General Project Plan (GPP) for the Empire Station Complex redevelopment excludes any transportation, transit and below grade improvements necessary to achieve the goal of transforming Penn Station into a dynamic and modern transit hub, rendering it impossible to properly assess the validity of the proposal, its ability to achieve any stated goals and to measure and possibly mitigate any impacts from said transportation improvements.

Therefore we are requesting a new comprehensive proposal be issued that includes all parts of the proposal to reach the stated goals and avoid at all cost a piecemeal approach that will inevitably skew an environmental assessment. Community Board Five reminds ESD that segmentation is contrary to the intent of State Environmental Quality Review (SEQR) and this project does not meet any of the acceptable reasons for segmentation. On the contrary, the location, purpose, impact, and utility of the project are all shared under the master plan for an improved Penn Station. They therefore must be evaluated under one proposal.
Quote:
- FUNDING

Community Board Five notes that one of the stated goals of the land use proposal is to generate funding needed to perform the below grade upgrades and improvements to Penn Station. It is therefore critical to acknowledge that any change to the funding structure would radically change the scope of the proposal.

We believe that given the prominence of the transit hub for the entire region, and the prominence of the region for the entire country, federal funding should more generously be allocated to our critical infrastructure, hence reducing the need to generate real estate wealth at our community’s expense.

We demand that the scope be revised to reflect an increase in federal funding and a commensurate reduction in density.
Quote:
- MADISON SQUARE GARDEN

Madison Square Garden (MSG) is considered by numerous urban planners, architects and land use experts as an obstacle in the renovation and sustainable future expansion of Penn Station. On February 15, 2013, Manhattan Community Board Five voted 36–0 against granting a renewal to MSG's operating permit in perpetuity and proposed a 10-year limit instead in order to build a new Penn Station where the arena is currently standing.

Then Manhattan Borough President Scott Stringer noted that "Moving the arena is an important first step to improving Penn Station.” In May 2013, at the invitation of the Municipal Art Society, four leading architecture firms – SHoP Architects, SOM, H3 Hardy Collaboration Architecture, and Diller Scofidio + Renfro – submitted proposals for a new Penn Station. All four architectural firms recommended relocating Madison Square Garden to accomplish a meaningful transit hub redevelopment.

In June 2013, the New York City Council Committee on Land Use voted unanimously to give the Garden a ten-year permit, at the end of which period the owners will either have to relocate, or go back through the permission process. On July 24, 2013, the City Council voted to give the Garden a 10-year operating permit by a vote of 47–1. At the time, the city Council Speaker Christine Quinn said: "This is the first step in finding a new home for Madison Square Garden and building a new Penn Station that is as great as New York and suitable for the 21st century; this is an opportunity to reimagine and redevelop Penn Station as a world-class transportation destination."

The GPP does not propose to relocate Madison Square Garden and therefore is not addressing a major limitation to their stated goal. Unless the sports and concert arena is relocated, its structure will continue to impede any meaningful improvement to Penn Station.

Therefore we demand that the relocation of Madison Square Garden be included in this proposal (including exploring block 809 as a possible relocation site), and the redevelopment of block 781 be part of the scope of work. Manhattan Community Board Five notes that the city deserves a 21st century transit hub as well as a 21st century sports and concert venue.
Quote:
- SOCIOECONOMIC IMPACTS, URBAN DESIGN, HISTORIC RESOURCES

The proposed land use action if approved would be the densest rezoning ever passed in New York City. Some of the proposed development sites would reach a FAR of 33. The impact would be of high magnitude and high importance.

The scope should include a much more robust evaluation of the environmental impact in many different areas.
Quote:
SUBSTANCIAL INCREASED STUDY RADIUS

- The study area for pedestrian flow, vehicular traffic flow, and bicycle circulation must be broadened as a ¼ mile radius will not accurately capture the impact generated by the additional 20 million square feet of commercial, retail and hotel development.

- The study area must be broadened to evaluate the cumulative impacts of the concomitant redevelopment of the Port Authority Bus Terminal (including its land use portion), the proposed upzoning of Macy’s Department Store directly to the north of the development area, as well as the impact of further influx of commercial office space in an already saturated office market flooded by Hudson Yards as well as East Midtown.

The proposed development may contribute to a collapse of an already eroded retail and office real-estate market. It should be noted that the profound negative impact caused by Covid-19 pandemic on office space needs is unknown and a grave cause for concerns as many Fortune 500 companies have expressed the intention to sharply reduce their office footprint.
Quote:
- The proposed development would also have a disastrous impact on visual resources, most significantly on the Empire State Building that would be boxed off by the large developments along 7th Avenue. It is imperative that visual corridors be identified and fully protected, as New York City’s skyline is a public asset that should never be impeded.

- The proposed project must clearly state that the added density can only be constructed at the identified sites and that no transfer of air rights mechanism shall apply to any of these sites, as the impact of any shifted density will not be and cannot be properly assessed.
Quote:
- REASONABLE ALTERNATIVES

The proposal must be evaluated in light of other reasonable alternative developments that would achieve similar goals.

An alternate proposal that includes substantial affordable housing must be evaluated.

A reasonable alternative in which the proposed real estate development would be spread out between Penn Station and other areas that use the transit hub should be considered (New Jersey, Long Island).
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  #291  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2020, 11:12 AM
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It is interesting how Community Board Five reintroduces the MSG discourse in this process of requests for the future redevelopment of the Empire Station District. Even in the statement, the Community does not claim to want to move the MSG to another area of ​​the city but clearly states that it represents an obstacle to having a modern Penn Station. In light of all this, I think the 2013 SHOP project could be taken into consideration with a modification. The new MSG could be built over the new Penn Station.



Furthermore, site 1 (block 754) and site 2 (block 780) could be used for affordable housing and schools.

On site 3 (bock 806) there would be the tallest tower (SHOP) while on sites 5 and 6 (bock 783 and bock 809) two 1,400 ft office towers could be built.

Hotel Penn Station could be renovated or rebuilt in a more modern way, while on site 8 (block 808) an office tower similar to One Penn Plaza could be built.

Of course this is just my idea ...
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  #292  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2020, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Sky88 View Post
Furthermore, site 1 (block 754) and site 2 (block 780) could be used for affordable housing and schools.
The reason that there isn't much affordable housing or schooling directly around Grand Central is because it's a business district, with the density such a location affords it, with its great mass transit. Schooling and affordable housing can go elsewhere in the entire city of New York. There's no reason the Penn Station district should be scrapping to increase density. And I am glad this is a state run process, and not the city, where councilmen can tie up the process with nonsense.
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  #293  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2020, 12:48 PM
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MSG must go. It belongs in the Bronx or in LIC, both of which are short subway rides from Manhattan.
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  #294  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2020, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
The reason that there isn't much affordable housing or schooling directly around Grand Central is because it's a business district, with the density such a location affords it, with its great mass transit. Schooling and affordable housing can go elsewhere in the entire city of New York. There's no reason the Penn Station district should be scrapping to increase density. And I am glad this is a state run process, and not the city, where councilmen can tie up the process with nonsense.
I 100% agree with you!
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  #295  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2020, 2:01 PM
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MSG to the current PABT site, a new PABT slightly to the west w/ new 7 station at 10th and dedicated PABT and MSG entry and concourse from Eighth. The more you think about it the more it makes sense.
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  #296  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2020, 2:26 PM
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A huge mass transit hub is great for business.... AND residential. If this isn't the spot for density-oriented growth, I don't know what is. You can have both, and that includes market AND some affordable residential housing.
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  #297  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2020, 3:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
MSG to the current PABT site, a new PABT slightly to the west w/ new 7 station at 10th and dedicated PABT and MSG entry and concourse from Eighth. The more you think about it the more it makes sense.
I'd like MSG and the PABT out of Manhattan, but if they both have to stay, I like your idea.

I also liked the idea of building a PABT under Javits.
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  #298  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2020, 5:44 PM
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Originally Posted by JMKeynes View Post
I'd like the [...] PABT out of Manhattan,...
That ship has sailed. The PA, NY and NJ was NEVER going to go for that. The notion of a NJ bus terminal with a last mile rail link to Manhattan would be an absolute non-starter with so many because even though it makes sense to us urban planner types, it would by definition turn a one seat ride into two and that would be politically impossible to sell to the public. And remember, the PABT isn't just for NJT and private contract carriers, it also terminates long distance coaches and their destination signs say "New York" not "New Jersey w/ another short train ride to New York... don't leave you luggage behind."
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  #299  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2020, 7:12 PM
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Originally Posted by citybooster View Post
A huge mass transit hub is great for business.... AND residential. If this isn't the spot for density-oriented growth, I don't know what is. You can have both, and that includes market AND some affordable residential housing.
Affordable housing doesn’t belong everywhere. People need to realize that. Besides, the people who already live in the area are complaining about tge added towers and density. Not the place for it.

As far as moving Penn, the CB seems to think that the block south of Macy’s is a good fit. Not sure how.

As far as a new Penn on the current site, not sure where that momentum would come from. Amtrak and the LIRR will base operations out of the Farley Building, which will open in a few short months in all its glory.

The CB acknowledges that MSG itself needs to be rebuilt, and that’s true. The single best option is to be rebuilt on site, with towers above (4 msf of development rights). That was the original plan for Barclays, and they’ve gone with that to some extent. A rebuilt MSG would give the oppurtunity to open up the current Penn site to daylight, much more so than the opening we are getting at the end of the year on 7th.
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  #300  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2020, 3:45 PM
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https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2020/08/...-penn-station/

Hells Kitchen Has No Use For Cuomo’s Master Plan for Penn Station


By Dave Colon
Aug 14, 2020


Quote:
Holy Moses, this plan stinks.

A Manhattan community board unanimously called for more people-friendly transit improvements in Gov. Cuomo’s massive Empire Station Complex rebuild of Penn Station, even calling the governor’s plan a relic of the Robert Moses era.

The plan to rebuild Penn Station focuses too much on big buildings and not nearly enough on the actual streets surrounding the new train station, where residents wrote that they wanted to see the state include a study of multiple busways, more shared streets and pedestrian-only traffic lanes around the rebuilt transit hub.

“This Robert Moses-like approach, with extensive displacement and car-centric transportation planning occurs throughout the proposal and should be replaced with a more pedestrian- and urban planning-centric narrative,” Manhattan Community Board 4’s leaders wrote to Empire State Development executives Howard Zemsky and Holly Leicht in a July 30 letter that reflected all 47 voting members of the board — almost unheard of unanimity from a community board.
Quote:
Overall, CB4 asked Empire State Development and the governor to take a wider view of the project, which is alleged to be a bold move towards expanding public transit options and not just an ego-stroking tribute to a man who chases Robert Moses comparisons for fun. Transit and planning advocates also said that while they support the idea of a new Penn, the project could also use a more of a comprehensive plan that would do more than just add a huge mass of commuters without truly improving the streetscape or urban environment surrounding the new Penn Station.
Quote:
Speaker Johnson, who’s on the Community Advisory Council for the big-time project in his district, said that he was going to push for the expanded transit, cycling and pedestrian improvements as the project goes forward.

“A new planning framework for Penn Station and the surrounding blocks has to focus on the needs of transit riders, pedestrians, and bicyclists,” said Johnson. “I look forward to working closely with the community, Empire State Development, and the MTA to make sure we make the most of this moment and transform one of the most congested parts of New York City into a model of sustainable transportation.”



From the CB4 letter:



https://www.scribd.com/document/4723...tation-Complex



























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Last edited by NYguy; Aug 14, 2020 at 4:06 PM.
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