HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Buildings & Architecture


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #21  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2012, 3:24 PM
M II A II R II K's Avatar
M II A II R II K M II A II R II K is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 52,200
They wouldn't have to demolish the brutalist buildings, they can just build a wall and a roof around them so both sides would be satisfied.
__________________
ASDFGHJK
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #22  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2012, 1:06 AM
stormkingfan stormkingfan is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: PhilaPA
Posts: 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by M II A II R II K View Post
[SIZE="5"]http://www.californiahomedesign.com/sites/all/files/styles/zoomtour/public/tour/denver-public-library.jpg[/IMG]
Damn! supposed to be the last pic in this group! (I hate computers)

Put a few floors on top of the platform and you've got Denver's answer to Milano's Torre Velasca (late 50s top-heavy hi-rise).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #23  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2012, 2:07 AM
vid's Avatar
vid vid is offline
I am a typical
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Thunder Bay
Posts: 41,172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Xyroadia View Post
The rise of Modernism and Brutalism in the 60s and 70s was paved on an architectural holocaust commited against countless treasures from the turn of the century.
Actually, that architectural holocaust started in the late 1940s, and was caused by neglect and a desire to get away from the "old ways" associated with a war-torn past, as well as to take advantage of new building technology and a new kind of aesthetic that the world had never seen before.

Your opinions toward modernist and brutalist buildings are exactly the same as the opinions towards classical architecture held by common people in the early post-war era. They thought they were stuffy, heavy, old, dirty and rundown, ugly pieces of shit with not enough windows, no AC, and dark, narrow hallways. They looked at the ornamentation on buildings like the Singer Building in New York and wondered why anyone would ever find such flamboyant and grimy features beautiful. But they didn't tear them down for the purpose of replacing them with modern buildings; they tore them down because it was cheaper and easier to do so, and modern buildings replaced them because that was the style at the time.

Buildings typically last about 35 to 50 years before they require extensive repairs, often costing millions of dollars. The rise of modernism coincided with the end of life period for many buildings constructed at the turn of the century, and it was simply cheaper to replace them than spend millions on repairs. This is exactly what we're experiencing with modernist and brutalist buildings today. We're losing them because they're near the end of their lifespan, we don't find them aesthetically pleasing, and it is cheaper and easier to simply destroy them and build something else.

The tower of my city's second City Hall, which stood from 1903 to 1964, was removed in the 1940s because it had never been maintained. By 1960, most of the building's architectural features were removed because they were falling off, and the building was actually quite ugly. Contrast this today; our third City Hall, built in 1964, had a crumbling concrete facade that was dirty and falling off in places, window frames that weren't energy efficient, and a floor plan that essentially shunted workers into their offices. Three years ago, we stripped the building to its bones and built an ugly Post Modern shell around it, with a new facade, energy efficient windows, and open lobbies where people can relax on their breaks and the public can mingle with the town council. In about 50 years, we'll probably demolish the building entirely and build our fourth city hall, and I'm sure 100 years from now people like you will complain about what a loss the "turn of the century" (2009) design was.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #24  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2012, 4:51 AM
volguus zildrohar's Avatar
volguus zildrohar volguus zildrohar is offline
I Couldn't Tell Anyone
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The City Of Philadelphia
Posts: 15,988
That Marriott in San Francisco has always been a curious one for me. It's too kitschy to ignore or hate, IMO. But all those Gehry architectural abortions can go. He's designing the new galleries for the Philadelphia Museum of Art and thank goodness they're going to be where they belong - underground.
__________________
je suis phillytrax sur FLICKR, y'all
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #25  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2012, 12:44 PM
The_Architect's Avatar
The_Architect The_Architect is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 3,385
What a stupid list. I disagree with half the entries on there.
__________________
Hope is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of our greatest strength, and our greatest weakness.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #26  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2012, 4:46 PM
Tyler Xyroadia's Avatar
Tyler Xyroadia Tyler Xyroadia is offline
Architect Curmudgeon
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Arizona
Posts: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by vid View Post
Wonderful words
Vid I tip my hat to you, you have put into words far better my feelings then I could have.

All things go in cycles, What was considered new, becomes old, is lost, and then we scramble to save what we are losing. It happened to Art Deco, to Modernism and (thankfully) to Brutalism. In 20 years we will no doubt have people around starting 'Save the Glass Box!' movement.

It is none the less a crying shame to still have lost so much. That it is considered easier to detroy a building then renew it I feel is a terrible thing.
__________________
"God damn modern architect's and their Brtualism, and 'realism' and damn concrete boxes. Why I remember back when buildings had STYLE back when you would have real ARTISTS working away both inside and out!
"Um, aren't you like barely 30?"
"Thats not the point you damn whipper snapper!"
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #27  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2012, 5:27 PM
JManc's Avatar
JManc JManc is online now
Dryer lint inspector
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Houston/ SF Bay Area
Posts: 37,885
I must be in the minority but i love Brutalism. Sad, yes, that they replaced grand per-war structures but their destruction too would be a loss. plus, there are far less of these than there were (still are) of the pre-war stock.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #28  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2012, 8:40 PM
Jonboy1983's Avatar
Jonboy1983 Jonboy1983 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The absolute western-most point of the Philadelphia urbanized area. :)
Posts: 1,721
I agree that brutalist architecture is some ugly-ass crap. However, the J. Edgar Hoover building is an example of how such architecture could work, and it does look nice IMO. Things I absolutely disagree with tho:

Mall of America, really? Yes, it's expansive, but why would anyone want to level it?!!! You might piss off every woman in the greater Minneapolis area as well as those who wish to shop there at some point!

Trump Tower... uhh, I don't get it...

MetLife (formerly Pan Am), again, another example of how the brutalist architecture actually works. Examples of how it does not work are where they form these weird obscure designs such as at the University of Pittsburgh's campus. They tore down Forbes Field and replaced it with that utter schlock. UGH! There are examples of such uses in this thread that I do agree with.

I-95 in Philly is rather interesting. It's not necessarily a piece of architecture; just an ugly strip of pavement seriously screwing up property values of pieces of land along the Delaware River. Gawd-awful. There are proposals to deck the roadway near Penn's Landing. I'm not sure about the rest of I-95 tho above the BF Bridge...
__________________
Transportation planning, building better communities of tomorrow through superior connections between them today...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #29  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2012, 9:03 PM
Cirrus's Avatar
Cirrus Cirrus is offline
cities|transit|croissants
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 18,378
Both the FBI building and Boston City Hall should absolutely be demolished ASAP. The issue is not whether they are worthwhile as sculpture, but that they deaden huge swaths of what should be active city blocks. Even if you like them aesthetically, they are the very definition of urban blight. For that reason alone, they've got to go.

Put those buildings in a suburban office park campus somewhere and I'd say save them, if for no other reason than to be a warning for future generations. But location matters, and in those 2 cases it should and will doom them from preservation.
__________________
writing | twitter | flickr | instagram | ssp photo threads
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #30  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2012, 9:56 PM
Cirrus's Avatar
Cirrus Cirrus is offline
cities|transit|croissants
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 18,378
  • Boston City Hall: Kill it with fire. Anti-urban building ruins a large part of downtown Boston. Possibly the #1 worst building in America.
  • Barbie's Dream House: Keep it. Not a real building. Stop trying to be cute, list-makers.
  • Portland Building: Keep it. It's weird, but it's basically harmless, and it's important to architectural history. Also, any architect who hates on this building immediately loses every ounce of credibility to ever argue that we should design buildings "of our time," because this one is as of its time as any building possibly could be.
  • Meadowlands XanadU: Kill it with fire. Setting aside its ugliness, who builds an enclosed mall in 2012?
  • EMP Seattle: Kill it with fire. The very definition of kitsch. Hard to believe Gehry designed it himself. Awful interior use of space, too.
  • Barclays Center: No opinion. Urban stadiums aren't inherently bad. Don't know enough about this one.
  • Marriott Marquis, SF: Keep it. It's a welcome break to SF's boxy, boring skyline.
  • Kinkade Homes: Keep them. Be honest: if these didn't have the name "Thomas Kinkade" attached to them, would they be offensive at all? They look fine to me. They're reasonably sized, so they're not Mcmansions. They're not masterpieces, but they're no different than 100 million other homes in US suburbia. Hating on these just because they have Kinkade's name on them is juvenile.
  • The Ascent: Kill it with fire. It's ugly, it's derivative, it's got awful proportions, and (worst of all) it's a huge suburban barrier between the urban part of Covington and its waterfront. A location that should have stitched together two parts of downtown instead separated them.
  • FBI Building: Kill it with fire. A large part of the reason that a large part of downtown DC sucks.
  • I-95 in Philly: Undecided. I'm not the least bit opposed to urban freeway removal, but I am not convinced this is the biggest offender in Philadelphia, much less the whole US. This is a topic that merits more than an afterthought on someone's list of bad architecture.
  • Kaden Buildomg: Kill it with fire. It really is horribly ugly.
  • Mall of America: Meh. Most malls are ugly. Bigger doesn't necessarily mean uglier or more offensive. It wouldn't bother me if this were demolished, but I don't think it's any higher a priority than 1,000 other malls.
  • Trump Tower: Keep it. Nothing wrong with this tower, at least aesthetically.
  • US Mint, SF: Kill it with fire. A reasonably handsome building is ruined by its site plan. That whole intersection is just awful.
  • MetLife: Kill it with fire. It's not terrible sculpture, as midcentury skyscrapers go. If it were somewhere else I'd say keep it. But it blocks one of New York's best vistas.
  • Daly City: Keep it. Daly City is weird, but after being burned by urban renewal, we don't demolish entire communities anymore.
  • The Ziggurat: Keep it. In a downtown it would be damaging, but in a suburban location it's basically harmless. And it's more interesting than the the typical suburban office box from the same time period.
  • AT&T Central Office: Kill it with fire. No redeeming features.
  • 8500 Melrose: Keep it. Nothing wrong with this.
  • Mechanic Theater: Kill it with fire. Absolutely useless. Ruins a block. The only good thing about it is that it's small enough not to ruin more.
  • Oakley HQ: Keep it. File this one under "trying too hard to be cool, which is inherently uncool." Tastless and ugly, but it's basically just a weird facade slapped onto a warehouse, and since it's located amidst a bunch of other warehouses I don't think it's fair to hate on it too much.
  • Burton Bldg: Kill it with fire. Like the FBI Building and Boston City Hall. Not quite as bad, but still.
  • Geisel Library: Keep it. It's weird, but it's not hurting anyone, and at least it's interesting.
  • Denver Library: Keep it. Shockingly weird, but harmless. The fact that architects hate this now is proof that the "shockingly weird" school of architecture that's currently responsible for Gehry and Libeskind is too fickle to be trusted. In the mean time, this will age better than Gehry buildings.
__________________
writing | twitter | flickr | instagram | ssp photo threads
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #31  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2012, 11:16 PM
mhays mhays is online now
Never Dell
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 19,790
I like the EMP. It's theme park architecture, but it's in a theme park, of sorts.

Great point about the Portland Building. This is a prime example of an era, exactly the sort of building preservationists argue to save from other eras. I don't agree with that philosophy as an reason to require saving bad buildings, but I also like this building, at least from the outside.

Pan Am / MetLife is an awesome building, not for itself but because it's a capital at the end of a vista, or two of them. It doesn't block a vista...it IS arguably the quintessential NY view.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #32  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2012, 11:54 PM
Ch.G, Ch.G's Avatar
Ch.G, Ch.G Ch.G, Ch.G is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirrus View Post
Both the FBI building and Boston City Hall should absolutely be demolished ASAP. The issue is not whether they are worthwhile as sculpture, but that they deaden huge swaths of what should be active city blocks. Even if you like them aesthetically, they are the very definition of urban blight. For that reason alone, they've got to go.
Bullshit. Boston City Hall doesn't "deaden huge swaths of what should be active city blocks." The horrid plaza does. The latter can be fixed without demolishing the former.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #33  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2012, 1:08 AM
LSyd's Avatar
LSyd LSyd is offline
Red October standing by
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Columbia/Sumter, SC
Posts: 16,913
pretty stupid list and add me to the (good) brutalism fan club.

-
__________________
"The vapors! The fainting couch! Those heartless elitists are burning down the plantation with their logic and arithmetic!"

-fflint
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #34  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2012, 1:19 AM
Pistola916 Pistola916 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SAN FRANCISCO/SACRAMENTO
Posts: 633
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirrus View Post
  • The Ziggurat: Keep it. In a downtown it would be damaging, but in a suburban location it's basically harmless. And it's more interesting than the the typical suburban office box from the same time period.
The thing is that structure is not in the suburbs, it's across the Sacramento River adjacent to downtown Sacramento.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #35  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2012, 2:44 AM
texcolo's Avatar
texcolo texcolo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Truth or Consequences, NM
Posts: 4,304
I love the Denver Public Library.

The biggest problem with Boston City Hall is the gigantor pubic plaza. Maybe if they built a neo-urban enclave in the pubic plaza the City Hall wouldn't be quite as heinous.

I would keep the Kaden Building, but put up a three storey marble slab out front with the words 'never again' etched into it.
__________________
"I am literally grasping at straws." - Bob Belcher
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #36  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2012, 5:08 AM
Tom Servo's Avatar
Tom Servo Tom Servo is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,647
Quote:
Originally Posted by M II A II R II K View Post
[SIZE="5"]
Boston City Hall in Boston, MA

http://www.californiahomedesign.com/...right-now/5074



The J. Edgar Hoover Building in Washington D.C.

http://www.californiahomedesign.com/...right-now/5083



MetLife Building in New York, NY

http://www.californiahomedesign.com/...right-now/5089



Geisel Library at the University of California in San Diego in La Jolla, CA

http://www.californiahomedesign.com/...right-now/5097

What the fuck? I reject the opinions expressed by whomever composed this list.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #37  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2012, 5:18 AM
THE BIG APPLE's Avatar
THE BIG APPLE THE BIG APPLE is offline
Khurram Parvaz
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NEW YORK
Posts: 2,424
Forget Trump and Metlife. Why is the Barclays Center (which is not even completed yet), and EMP in Seattle on the list?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #38  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2012, 5:23 AM
Tom Servo's Avatar
Tom Servo Tom Servo is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,647
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirrus View Post
they are the very definition of urban blight.
...wow, what a melodramatic misuse of urban blight.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #39  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2012, 11:53 PM
Coldrsx's Avatar
Coldrsx Coldrsx is offline
Community Guy
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Canmore, AB
Posts: 66,745
Hold the phone, no Vegas?
__________________
"The destructive effects of automobiles are much less a cause than a symptom of our incompetence at city building" - Jane Jacobs 1961ish

Wake me up when I can see skyscrapers
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #40  
Old Posted Jun 29, 2012, 1:47 AM
Private Dick Private Dick is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: D.C.
Posts: 3,125
I-95 in Philadelphia?

... "The I-95 was built along Philadelphia’s waterfront when the car was a welcome guest in our cities. Sadly, Philadelphia is missing out on an opportunity that cities like San Francisco and New York have taken advantage of: making the waterfront a green zone for people. Currently, the only way to see Philadelphia’s waterfront is speeding past in a car."

While I think that I-95's situation is far from ideal for Philadelphia's connections to the Delaware riverfront, this is foolhardy "reasoning". It's not as if the highway is built right next to the water for much of its course through Philly.. and much of it is elevated with access to the riverfront underneath or it goes below grade and there are decks or bridges over the highway to access the riverfront. This situation is seen in cities all over the place.

The problem is more with the use of the riverfront land, or lack thereof. Other than the stretch of 95 from around South St. to the Ben Franklin Bridge, I-95 really doesn't affect how the riverfront is being used. More can always be done to ease access -- I-95 is not prohibiting Philly from making the riverfront a "green zone for people".
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Buildings & Architecture
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 6:59 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.