Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[osmo]

Originally Posted by esquire

I was thinking about whether to include MSG when I wrote my post, but I don't recall any major alterations to the seating bowl. I was thinking more of the types of reno projects where they totally change the interior configuration. For instance, if you look at pictures of Oracle Arena in its initial configuration compared to how it looks today, it looks as though they are two totally different buildings on the inside. MSG now still looks pretty much as it did before... the changes are much less obvious, despite the massive pricetag for MSG's renovations.

The recent $1B MSG renovation completely changed the seating bowl and interior at large, it is going to be to be most expensive renovation done for quite some time.

[thurmas]

MSG has much better lighting now for tv it looks a lot better. It is somewhat oversaturated the arena market though in the NYC area now as you have MSG, Barclays center in Brooklyn and soon the new Islanders arena at Belmont park near Queens plus the Prudential center nearby in Newark NJ. I know it is the largest media market but seems a bit much as NYC is not growing like other booming cities like Dallas, Houston, Toronto, Atlanta ect...

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by thurmas

MSG has much better lighting now for tv it looks a lot better. It is somewhat oversaturated the arena market though in the NYC area now as you have MSG, Barclays center in Brooklyn and soon the new Islanders arena at Belmont park near Queens plus the Prudential center nearby in Newark NJ. I know it is the largest media market but seems a bit much as NYC is not growing like other booming cities like Dallas, Houston, Toronto, Atlanta ect...

Owners want exclusive control or access to the revenue generated by the buildings their teams play in. How many teams share arenas now that are owned by different groups? When the Clippers get their own building in 2024 how many shared facilities will be left?

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

Owners want exclusive control or access to the revenue generated by the buildings their teams play in. How many teams share arenas now that are owned by different groups? When the Clippers get their own building in 2024 how many shared facilities will be left?

I think in the Islanders case, if Barclays was an actual hockey arena, they might have made a go there. Especially if the team had have been good enough to build a Brooklyn fan base to replace those that didn't want to commute from their old area. But it's a basketball and concert venue not suitable to host NHL size crowds.

Not all basketball arenas are designed to have great hockey sightlines. Phoenix was like that, which is partly why the Coyotes moved. Even in Toronto, the ACC, which was being built by the Raptors, needed some work to improve it when MLSE bought the team and the arena. Fortunately, the arena was still under construction and the changes were able to be made easier.

As to your question about shared facilities there are 10 that I can think of. Boston, Chicago, Dallas, Denver, Detroit, Washington, and Philadelphia. Not sure if or how many any of those would be under common ownership like Toronto, LA and New York (MSG), without looking, but I imagine there are a few.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by osmo

The recent $1B MSG renovation completely changed the seating bowl and interior at large, it is going to be to be most expensive renovation done for quite some time.

Did it really? When I saw it on TV post reno it didn't look all that different in terms of seating configuration. I know they added those "Chase Bridges" and redid the corridors and concourses and gave the place an overall refresh, but I wouldn't consider it "rebuilt" in the same way that KeyArena or Oracle were.

MSG post-renovations: https://gothamist.com/arts-entertain...arden?image=33

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Very nice. But what would it mean for Telus Field? Or are they being forced out of Telus Field?

The City put out and RFP on Remax (formerly Telus) Field and awarded it to another group, league, team.

https://globalnews.ca/news/6968671/e...e-randy-gregg/

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by esquire

Did it really? When I saw it on TV post reno it didn't look all that different in terms of seating configuration. I know they added those "Chase Bridges" and redid the corridors and concourses and gave the place an overall refresh, but I wouldn't consider it "rebuilt" in the same way that KeyArena or Oracle were.

MSG post-renovations: https://gothamist.com/arts-entertain...arden?image=33

It was a pretty significant change when you see it in this video. They completely removed and rebuilt the upper seating tier. I don't think the lower bowl changed a whole lot, which is what we mostly see on TV.

• Video Link

[esquire]

^ That was helpful, thank you. Yeah, in light of the upper tier rebuild I'd have to say that MSG counts as a rebuild. Maybe not the most dramatic example like Oracle was, but rebuilt just the same.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ That was helpful, thank you. Yeah, in light of the upper tier rebuild I'd have to say that MSG counts as a rebuild. Maybe not the most dramatic example like Oracle was, but rebuilt just the same.

Just imagine what MSG could build if they had the land to do so. $1 billion just about anywhere else would result in the best arena in North America if not the world.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

Just imagine what MSG could build if they had the land to do so. $1 billion just about anywhere else would result in the best arena in North America if not the world.

I think if I was the ownership group, I'd be happier with the $1 billion spent in the heart of New York City for profit potential versus the nicest arena in Podunksville.

That being said, it does seem that New York does have its own level of cost, one that's anywhere from 2-5X the cost of ordinary cities. Such is the cost of the premier cities and venues of the world.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by wave46

I think if I was the ownership group, I'd be happier with the $1 billion spent in the heart of New York City for profit potential versus the nicest arena in Podunksville.

That being said, it does seem that New York does have its own level of cost, one that's anywhere from 2-5X the cost of ordinary cities. Such is the cost of the premier cities and venues of the world.

The people that own the MSG group of companies basically have a license to print money unless people stop going to sporting events, concerts, etc. It's amazing how much they own or run in NYC and elsewhere. They also just got $400 million from Steve Ballmer for The Forum in LA so he can build a new arena for the Clippers.

[Djeffery]

I think part of the reason for that high expense was also the compressed timelines in the relatively short off seasons of the Rangers and Knicks. If they were able to do the work from start to finish in the most efficient way, instead of over the course of 3 or 4 offseasons, it probably would have been somewhat cheaper.

[J.OT13]

Somehow this went under the radar, but Scotiabank Arena renos (former ACC) were advancing well in October 2019. I couldn't find any recent articles.

Before:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotiabank_Arena

After:


https://urbantoronto.ca/news/2019/10...e-leafs-opener

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Somehow this went under the radar, but Scotiabank Arena renos (former ACC) were advancing well in October 2019. I couldn't find any recent articles.

Walked past Scotiabank last night and, yeah, it looks great on the outside. That whole neighbourhood is vastly different from what it was five years ago.

[Denscity]

I wonder if Scotiabank officially changed their logo to red or just made this one blue for the Leafs sake?

[ericmacm]

The system they have set up for Scotiabank Arena is RGB and they change colour for different events. You can still see normal red Scotiabank logos on the roof from an aerial view.

[Denscity]

Originally Posted by ericmacm

The system they have set up for Scotiabank Arena is RGB and they change colour for different events. You can still see normal red Scotiabank logos on the roof from an aerial view.

Ah k cheers.

[J.OT13]

Shows you don't always need a new arena. When you're building is already in a stellar location, it's worth investing in improving the interior and refreshing the exterior.

[ericmacm]

Yeah, renovations are always a good path forward, especially if the arena is already in the best possible location.

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by ericmacm

Yeah, renovations are always a good path forward, especially if the arena is already in the best possible location.

I hope the Jays share this mentality.