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  #821  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2020, 3:49 PM
mark0 mark0 is offline
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Originally Posted by BrinChi View Post
I dig it. But isn't this similar in format (i.e. all glass, open atrium) to the Thompson Center, which many folks want to tear down both for aesthetic and energy efficiency reasons (not me)? Just ironic to me that the state wants to get rid of one government building and then subsidize the construction of a shiny new version.
Illinois is a fumbling, bumbling "has been" of a state. Our leaders think innovation will come from a shiney new building that will look terribly out of date anyways in a decade. Innovation comes from an environment that fosters imagination in the people, treats capital properly and lets business flourish. Thats not IL right now. Back in the day CA offered that. HP was started in a garage. Apple was started in a garage. Google in a garage. Amazon, a garage. EchoBay (EBay), a garage. Facebook, a dorm room. The list goes on and on. Nothing is started in a State sponsored "innovation lab". It's the antithesis of an innovative environment. How's Pritzker's 1871 actually doing? What innovation is actually coming out of that? If this state is serious about it's future and fostering innovation the best thing it can do right now is NOT spend money it doesn't have, stop the bleeding of people and businesses and then get the hell out of the way of business. Make the state a fertile place for entrepreneurs to thrive instead of flee. Innovators are not going to give 2 sh*ts about a glass bubble. Another thing about innovation as it pertains to the west coast: Military drove that. During WW2 uncle Sam pumped a ton of money into the west coast aerospace industries to fortify the Pacific. That directly flowed into high tech materials research, electronics and computing sciences. We'd have a better shot of creating an ecosystem around energy sciences due to Argon and Fermilab than this innovation Lab BS.
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  #822  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2020, 3:54 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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Originally Posted by mark0 View Post
Illinois is a fumbling, bumbling "has been" of a state. Our leaders think innovation will come from a shiney new building that will look terribly out of date anyways in a decade. Innovation comes from an environment that fosters imagination in the people, treats capital properly and lets business flourish. Thats not IL right now. Back in the day CA offered that. HP was started in a garage. Apple was started in a garage. Google in a garage. Amazon, a garage. EchoBay (EBay), a garage. Facebook, a dorm room. The list goes on and on. Nothing is started in a State sponsored "innovation lab". It's the antithesis of an innovative environment. How's Pritzker's 1871 actually doing? What innovation is actually coming out of that? If this state is serious about it's future and fostering innovation the best thing it can do right now is NOT spend money it doesn't have, stop the bleeding of people and businesses and then get the hell out of the way of business. Make the state a fertile place for entrepreneurs to thrive instead of flee. Innovators are not going to give 2 sh*ts about a glass bubble. Another thing about innovation as it pertains to the west coast: Military drove that. During WW2 uncle Sam pumped a ton of money into the west coast aerospace industries to fortify the Pacific. That directly flowed into high tech materials research, electronics and computing sciences. We'd have a better shot of creating an ecosystem around energy sciences due to Argon and Fermilab than this innovation Lab BS.


Deaf ears, my friend. This is the wrong crowd
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  #823  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2020, 4:09 PM
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HomrQT HomrQT is offline
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Originally Posted by mark0 View Post
Illinois is a fumbling, bumbling "has been" of a state. Our leaders think innovation will come from a shiney new building that will look terribly out of date anyways in a decade. Innovation comes from an environment that fosters imagination in the people, treats capital properly and lets business flourish. Thats not IL right now. Back in the day CA offered that. HP was started in a garage. Apple was started in a garage. Google in a garage. Amazon, a garage. EchoBay (EBay), a garage. Facebook, a dorm room. The list goes on and on. Nothing is started in a State sponsored "innovation lab". It's the antithesis of an innovative environment. How's Pritzker's 1871 actually doing? What innovation is actually coming out of that? If this state is serious about it's future and fostering innovation the best thing it can do right now is NOT spend money it doesn't have, stop the bleeding of people and businesses and then get the hell out of the way of business. Make the state a fertile place for entrepreneurs to thrive instead of flee. Innovators are not going to give 2 sh*ts about a glass bubble. Another thing about innovation as it pertains to the west coast: Military drove that. During WW2 uncle Sam pumped a ton of money into the west coast aerospace industries to fortify the Pacific. That directly flowed into high tech materials research, electronics and computing sciences. We'd have a better shot of creating an ecosystem around energy sciences due to Argon and Fermilab than this innovation Lab BS.
If we shut down stuff like government sponsored "Innovation Labs" then how else would corrupt politicians pump money to their buddies? Stop being so selfish and start thinking about the welfare and happiness of machine politicians. Thank you.
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  #824  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2020, 4:13 PM
bgbarker bgbarker is offline
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post


Deaf ears, my friend. This is the wrong crowd
More like preaching to the choir here.
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  #825  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2020, 4:29 PM
west-town-brad west-town-brad is offline
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Originally Posted by mark0 View Post
Illinois is a fumbling, bumbling "has been" of a state. Our leaders think innovation will come from a shiney new building that will look terribly out of date anyways in a decade. Innovation comes from an environment that fosters imagination in the people, treats capital properly and lets business flourish. Thats not IL right now. Back in the day CA offered that. HP was started in a garage. Apple was started in a garage. Google in a garage. Amazon, a garage. EchoBay (EBay), a garage. Facebook, a dorm room. The list goes on and on. Nothing is started in a State sponsored "innovation lab". It's the antithesis of an innovative environment. How's Pritzker's 1871 actually doing? What innovation is actually coming out of that? If this state is serious about it's future and fostering innovation the best thing it can do right now is NOT spend money it doesn't have, stop the bleeding of people and businesses and then get the hell out of the way of business. Make the state a fertile place for entrepreneurs to thrive instead of flee. Innovators are not going to give 2 sh*ts about a glass bubble. Another thing about innovation as it pertains to the west coast: Military drove that. During WW2 uncle Sam pumped a ton of money into the west coast aerospace industries to fortify the Pacific. That directly flowed into high tech materials research, electronics and computing sciences. We'd have a better shot of creating an ecosystem around energy sciences due to Argon and Fermilab than this innovation Lab BS.
Well, DPI is really for "corporate innovation" which is just a way for large companies to look innovative. The "garage innovation" you are talking about happens everywhere and which state you are in matters little. The state of California had nothing to do with Apple forming or Facebook forming or Google forming. You seem to be really talking about taxes which matters little to new companies that have to income. Plus California taxes are worse than IL.

Last time I was at 1871 (pre-covid) it was dominated by large corporate stakeholders that plop some people there so they can say they innovate. It's all Vanity.
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  #826  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2020, 4:49 PM
mark0 mark0 is offline
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"The state of California had nothing to do with Apple forming or Facebook forming or Google forming."

The state of CA fostered an innovative environment due to military spending on aerospace starting in the 1940s and lead to computing in the 1950s and the formation of Silicon Valley. If there was no Silicon Valley and tons of electrical and computing engineering geeks running around in the late 1960s and 70s then there would be no Apple. And if there was no Silicon Valley there would be no way to scale up Google or Facebook or any of the others that moved there in their embryonic stage. In the era that created Silicon Valley CA was a low tax, pro business, wide open state with cheap land and inventive people.

I watched the presentation on the DPI and it's just the same recycled OMA diagrammatic babble it's always been with them. That presentation could be from 1995, 2005 or 2015. I will give OMA credit for levering their pseudo-intellectual insights into global sales, it really resonates with non-innovative governors, mayors and boards of directirs the world over. These guys could sell monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrook, certainly they'll put Illinois on the map!
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  #827  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2020, 5:44 PM
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Tom In Chicago Tom In Chicago is offline
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. . . did someone say monorail?

. . .
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  #828  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2020, 6:19 PM
west-town-brad west-town-brad is offline
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Originally Posted by mark0 View Post
"The state of California had nothing to do with Apple forming or Facebook forming or Google forming."

The state of CA fostered an innovative environment due to military spending on aerospace starting in the 1940s and lead to computing in the 1950s and the formation of Silicon Valley. If there was no Silicon Valley and tons of electrical and computing engineering geeks running around in the late 1960s and 70s then there would be no Apple. And if there was no Silicon Valley there would be no way to scale up Google or Facebook or any of the others that moved there in their embryonic stage. In the era that created Silicon Valley CA was a low tax, pro business, wide open state with cheap land and inventive people.
you're thinking of federal military spending, nothing to do with the state, and you forgot the catalyst for silicon valley was the private university of Stanford, again not state funded
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  #829  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2020, 6:28 PM
BuildThemTaller BuildThemTaller is offline
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you're thinking of federal military spending, nothing to do with the state, and you forgot the catalyst for silicon valley was the private university of Stanford, again not state funded
Talking about Stanford and omitting the presence of Berkeley in the Bay Area is willfully ignoring the contributions of the state in catalyzing private investment. It would be like suggesting the reason that the Research Triangle in North Carolina is so great is because of the private tobacco money that flooded Duke in the early in 20th century.

Chicago, like the Bay Area, the Triangle, NYC, Boston, and others, has a mix of public and private higher education institutions that have helped maintain and sustain private investment (among other things). It's part of the reason that Detroit has failed to pivot while Pittsburgh has. Continuing to invest in things that can spin off the next group of successful private ventures is a smart move. Having a shiny toy that drives that point home seems like a decent idea to me.
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  #830  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2020, 6:53 PM
mark0 mark0 is offline
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"you're thinking of federal military spending, nothing to do with the state, and you forgot the catalyst for silicon valley was the private university of Stanford, again not state funded"

Of course I meant military = Federal, that was the spark. I never meant CA had it's own military. Ironically Detroit lost all that aerospace to CA. Stanford's prowess is rooted in DoD and military research, you can look it up. And to get back on topic, the state already has UIC and other assets in place in the region, there is no need for, no money for and frankly no excitement for another wasteful university project, especially one as vapid as this OMA proposal. I'll give NU credit for their new BioLabs building, it's fairly conventional and serves a purpose well, they didnt feel the need to go out find a starchitect to design them some convoluted Amazon pod knock off.
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  #831  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2020, 7:02 PM
Handro Handro is offline
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Originally Posted by BuildThemTaller View Post
Talking about Stanford and omitting the presence of Berkeley in the Bay Area is willfully ignoring the contributions of the state in catalyzing private investment. It would be like suggesting the reason that the Research Triangle in North Carolina is so great is because of the private tobacco money that flooded Duke in the early in 20th century.

Chicago, like the Bay Area, the Triangle, NYC, Boston, and others, has a mix of public and private higher education institutions that have helped maintain and sustain private investment (among other things). It's part of the reason that Detroit has failed to pivot while Pittsburgh has. Continuing to invest in things that can spin off the next group of successful private ventures is a smart move. Having a shiny toy that drives that point home seems like a decent idea to me.
Agreed. Build places that attract young innovators (and a shiny campus on the Chicago river could do that for many college-aged students), then let them spin off and build the next amazing idea in their apartment in Avondale.

Yes, the state/city needs to do more to stop the bleeding of people from the city, but this type of investment is an important piece to what you're talking about, IMO. We can debate it's place on the priority list but I think we'd all agree it's on it. It's like a college investing in athletic facilities to attract better athletes. Whether the DPI itself contributes to some innovation is not really the point, the attention it attracts on the tech/science is what's important.
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  #832  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2020, 7:03 PM
BuildThemTaller BuildThemTaller is offline
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Originally Posted by mark0 View Post
I'll give NU credit for their new BioLabs building, it's fairly conventional and serves a purpose well, they didnt feel the need to go out find a starchitect to design them some convoluted Amazon pod knock off.
You talking about this Northwestern?
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  #833  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2020, 7:32 PM
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Northwestern has actually built a lot of impressive Good Design buildings in the last decade thanks to the work of Perkins+Will and Goettsch. Here's another beautiful example, the School of Music:

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  #834  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2020, 7:44 PM
JN12Franklin JN12Franklin is offline
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mark0's argument would make a lot more sense if there was evidence that college educated professionals were the ones fleeing. in fact, the opposite appears to be true. Chicago's population is holding relatively steady at a time when poorer neighborhood populations are dropping. Those who leave the state because they don't like taxes, retired people who leave for better weather (and lower taxes) and poor people fleeing Chicago due to crime - these aren't typically sources of innovation. Meanwhile, I believe UIC enrollment is at an all time high, and I'm not exactly hearing about problems at U of Chicago or Northwestern. I'm not selling my stock in Chicago any time soon.
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  #835  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2020, 8:47 PM
OrdoSeclorum OrdoSeclorum is offline
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HP was started in a garage. Apple was started in a garage. Google in a garage. Amazon, a garage. EchoBay (EBay), a garage. Facebook, a dorm room. The list goes on and on. Nothing is started in a State sponsored "innovation lab". .
HP received direct investment from Stanford. eBay and Apple come from the counterculture movement at Berkley. Facebook was one of several social media platforms developed at Harvard. Google came from R&D projects at the University of Michigan and Stanford.

What all of these stories have in common are a welcoming, tolerant atmosphere where curiosity and inventiveness is rewarded... and direct support from government funded research at major universities.

It is inane and insipid to suggest, as you do, that what we need is more garages and people to be left alone to work in them. What we need for innovation is a nurturing atmosphere where people can pursue knowledge and meet with other people from all over the world who are similarly curious and industrious. Even if the next Google isn't created at DPI--and odds are it won't be--the external gains from innovation are enormous. It's incredibly myopic and ignorant to think that the value from innovation is measured in the production of Fortune 50 tech companies.

It would be dumb to build a building and expect that to produce innovation. But if 12 NSF and NIH funded research institutions created a place for research and exploration in a welcoming city close to transit and a major international airport, why San Francisco or Boston would be gagging to secure that asset.
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  #836  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2020, 9:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Handro View Post
Agreed. Build places that attract young innovators (and a shiny campus on the Chicago river could do that for many college-aged students), then let them spin off and build the next amazing idea in their apartment in Avondale.

Yes, the state/city needs to do more to stop the bleeding of people from the city, but this type of investment is an important piece to what you're talking about, IMO. We can debate it's place on the priority list but I think we'd all agree it's on it. It's like a college investing in athletic facilities to attract better athletes. Whether the DPI itself contributes to some innovation is not really the point, the attention it attracts on the tech/science is what's important.
Yes, ultimately, attracting students/researchers/faculty is the goal. And the associated NSF/NIH/DOD/DOE/NASA grants, which the Universities get to extract overhead from and hire researchers with (like me!). And keeping any commercial outgrowth here would be great too, which might be easier in Chicago than in Champaign...
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Last edited by SIGSEGV; Nov 24, 2020 at 9:40 PM.
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  #837  
Old Posted Nov 26, 2020, 10:48 PM
clark wellington clark wellington is offline
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Originally Posted by mark0 View Post
"you're thinking of federal military spending, nothing to do with the state, and you forgot the catalyst for silicon valley was the private university of Stanford, again not state funded"

Of course I meant military = Federal, that was the spark. I never meant CA had it's own military. Ironically Detroit lost all that aerospace to CA. Stanford's prowess is rooted in DoD and military research, you can look it up. And to get back on topic, the state already has UIC and other assets in place in the region, there is no need for, no money for and frankly no excitement for another wasteful university project, especially one as vapid as this OMA proposal. I'll give NU credit for their new BioLabs building, it's fairly conventional and serves a purpose well, they didnt feel the need to go out find a starchitect to design them some convoluted Amazon pod knock off.

I don't really understand the point you are trying to make. You note that innovation was spurred in California by a mix of (federal) government investment and university investment, in a high tax state. Somehow that is an argument against this project, which is (state) government investment and university investment. Is it just the building? Or you don't think our state's major public research institution investing in its (tech, finance, business) hub makes sense?
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  #838  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2020, 4:05 PM
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Here's a new breathless rendering of the 78 with the OMA project placed in context:

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  #839  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2020, 4:30 PM
RedCorsair87 RedCorsair87 is offline
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Beautiful. It's a shame that nuclear bomb wiped the city out right after this was taken...

https://blockclubchicago.org/2020/12...ies-into-tech/

^More of this!

Last edited by RedCorsair87; Dec 15, 2020 at 4:43 PM.
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  #840  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2020, 4:34 PM
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Wells Wentworth Update

The new section of Wells north of the tracks is great! It's so refreshing to see a street that is less than 50% devoted to cars.

Also the Bailey bridges have vanished. Maybe the railroad (BNSF in this case) agreed to a longer closure so they just build the permanent bridge.


src: Twitter/FH Paschen
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Last edited by ardecila; Dec 15, 2020 at 6:42 PM. Reason: Changed attribution for photo
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