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  #9841  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 2:05 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
I know it's propaganda, and I know I'm disposed to liking it while overlooking potentially egregious aspects of it because I generally align with the Liberals ideologically, but I agree. Nothing he says in the spot is really wrong, in any case.

I guess Trudeau has good handlers after all. Or maybe they've learned from their missteps.
The takeaway from 2015 is that the Liberals' campaign skills are head and shoulders above the Cons and NDP. Or at least, they were in 2015. It seems not much has changed so far.
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  #9842  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 2:08 PM
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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
I realize Pattison had an out. I'm saying they shouldn't have used it for a couple reasons:
1) they have a monopoly
2) it effectively says to the public you cannot question immigration policy during an election

If you bought a billboard that said "Alberta oil helps destroy the planet", would you think it fair if Pattison took it down because some prairie folk complained?
Sure, why not? If they weighed everything and decided the Alberta market was worth pacifying.

I assume it's Pattison that took Alberta money to put up attack billboards against Horgan and the BC NDP on TMX. Same goes for BC Liberal money attacking Horgan for gas prices.

Neither of those came down, though the 2nd certainly backfired.
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  #9843  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 2:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I've not encountered this (at least not in Canada) but I am sure it does exist - probably even in my own city.

This notion is anathemic to me, and the exact opposite direction of where we should be heading.

To think that just a few posts ago someone was saying that multiculturalism was essentially inconsequential.
Funny, I've felt unwelcome in Quebec almost every time I go (not all over, just specific places.)
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  #9844  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 2:48 PM
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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
Funny, I've felt unwelcome in Quebec almost every time I go (not all over, just specific places.)
I would not be the slightest bit surprised by this, but that's not really related to what we are discussing.
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  #9845  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 2:51 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
I would imagine "critical mass" is the main issue.

There is a definite trend in places like Toronto and Vancouver for ethnic enclaves developing. If an ethnic enclave is large enough, and insular enough from the community at large, then I could see this situation perpetuating for generations.

If the enclaves continue to grow and take over surrounding neighbourhoods, and the ethnic minority eventually becomes a majority in their host city, then the city may become lost to the broader community. This could be problematic.
In most cases I can think of, historically many ethnic enclaves have often persisted for decades (sometimes a century or more) but generally speaking they've become a fundamental and often beloved part of the character of a place, and not at all isolated from wider society.
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  #9846  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 3:06 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
That Liberal political ad is EXCEPTIONALLY well done. It clear, concise, and the idea to bring the conversation down to a local constituency makes it personal. Trudeau comes across as being likeable yet assured without being arrogant. The ad does attack the Tories and their plan but still comes across as being positive and optimistic.

I couldn't possibly imagine coming out with a better ad............. VERY effective.
Wow, good ad. Very positive with just a few digs/warnings about the Conservatives.
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  #9847  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 3:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I would not be the slightest bit surprised by this, but that's not really related to what we are discussing.
Because it's not about race? Another exception for Quebec?
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  #9848  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 3:08 PM
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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
Funny, I've felt unwelcome in Quebec almost every time I go (not all over, just specific places.)
If so, you must be doing it wrong ....
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  #9849  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 3:18 PM
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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
Because it's not about race? Another exception for Quebec?
It's nothing of the sort. We are discussing (mostly urban) immigrant ethnic enclaves.

Quebec is not an ethnic immigrant enclave by any stretch of the imagination. (If so, it's a hell of a big one, but anyway...)

It's a historical sub-national geopolitical entity with nation-like characteristics.

You generally espouse progressive views on here. Don't tell me you're one of *these* types of leftist Canadians who get a hard-on for tolerating or even embracing arranged marriages, turban exceptions for motorbikes and hijabs-niqabs, but can't stand the way Quebec is different...

I get that, but it does seem that there is something about Quebec that makes certain otherwise smart, well-intentioned, worldly ROC Canadians completely lose their marbles. We make them lose it.

Here is the scene - and note that this is mostly a repost of something I have written here before.

Acajack is travelling through the Kalahari desert of Namibia.

He enters a village where he meets this thirtysomething Canadian guy from Listowel, Ontario who is helping the villagers build a well for much-needed drinking water. He learns that the guy has been working on international development projects for 10 years around the world, in the mountains of Bolivia, in Bangladesh, etc. He ended up here because he fell in love with a local lady and has been made a member of the tribe and speaks their language fluently, including its unique click sounds.

Everything goes well until he learns that Acajack is francophone and from Quebec, and then they start talking about Quebec, innocently enough at first, and eventually he turns into fucking Don Cherry or Diane Francis (remember her?) on steroids.

Thankfully, it doesn't happen all the time, but every once in a while, geez. From eminent experts on classical music to environmental activists. No background is automatically immune.

We simply drive (some of) them nuts.


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  #9850  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 3:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Though a question I might have is whether we think that this is just a temporary phase and that it will break down over time as immigration from the "old country" eases up and each successive generation integrates more and more.

Or is this becoming entrenched as a more or less permanent cultural feature of certain parts of the city?

Any thoughts?
Vancouver right now is in a state where a lot of the city caters to Chinese speakers. Not just shops but many other services like the fake (and illegal) Uber type service, the universities cater to international/ESL students (and are afraid to be transparent about admissions), etc. I think it would take decades for this to change, and the current demographic path we are on suggests it will become more pronounced, not less pronounced.

(As another example, remember that not too long ago we had a Liberal candidate who was caught broadcasting in WeChat that she was guaranteed to win her riding because she's ethnically Chinese and Jagmeet Singh is Indian. Part of me wonders if that would have been a scandal had the NDP candidate been Bob Smith. Oh, then we have Meng Wangzhou, who of course had lapsed PR and $15M worth of Vancouver houses, and on and on.)

I don't think this is the same as Italians in 1950. People in those days didn't have the equivalent of Italian-only phone apps and $600 round trip flights back to their old country. And their old country wasn't the most populous in the world with one of the largest economies. And it was much easier for them to integrate into Canadian culture even if they came with no knowledge of it.

I think Vancouver is the canary in the coal mine, because of the high level of immigration, relatively high proportion from one very distinct culture, and poor affordability. Plus we're only beginning to see what the global influence of China will be like.
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  #9851  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 3:43 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
If the enclaves continue to grow and take over surrounding neighbourhoods, and the ethnic minority eventually becomes a majority in their host city, then the city may become lost to the broader community. This could be problematic.
For a concrete example, Richmond BC has 200,000 people and was already 53% Chinese as of the 2016 census. Immigration at this point is making Richmond less diverse, not more diverse.
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  #9852  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 4:28 PM
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I dunno about Vancouver but in Ontario there's lots of second and third generation Chinese Canadians and many of them are pretty assimilated into the general Canadian population; in many cases less assimilated Chinese immigrants actually treat them as if they were white people. They have slang terms for these groups.. More assimilated individuals will use "fob" (short for fresh off the boat) as a slur for the unassimilated ones, for example.
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  #9853  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 4:30 PM
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Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
For a concrete example, Richmond BC has 200,000 people and was already 53% Chinese as of the 2016 census. Immigration at this point is making Richmond less diverse, not more diverse.
You need to separate Richmond into the ones who have been there a while “Hong Kong” and the newer “Mainland” Chinese. These are two distinct cultures that are roughly equal in population. Note that in Richmond the mayor is white and has won by a landslide despite facing candidates who were ethnically Chinese. It’s clear that ethnicity has not favored the Chinese candidates despite the city being half Chinese.

And btw Vancouver is only around 25% Chinese.
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  #9854  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 5:47 PM
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As Misher above notes, there is an open hostility between Hong Kongers/Taiwanese and Mainlanders. They do not get along at all and never associate with each other. They comes from 2 completely different worlds with vastly different values and this has been clearly shown with the Hong Kong protests where each etnic group are showing their support for their respective backgrounds. This is also been laid bare with the Huawei Meng Wanzhou extradition where Mainlander are overwheling supportive of Huawei and can't seem to get their heads around the concept of due process and the rule of law.
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  #9855  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 5:49 PM
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Originally Posted by misher View Post
You need to separate Richmond into the ones who have been there a while “Hong Kong” and the newer “Mainland” Chinese. These are two distinct cultures that are roughly equal in population. Note that in Richmond the mayor is white and has won by a landslide despite facing candidates who were ethnically Chinese. It’s clear that ethnicity has not favored the Chinese candidates despite the city being half Chinese.
It's true that there are different groups and different Chinese-oriented establishments can have a very different feel. The cultural questions are also not racial ones; there are lots of ethnic Chinese people who are very friendly and well-integrated into Canadian culture, on average harder working and more successful than Canadians as a whole, etc. I am in no way trying to be anti-Chinese or anti-Asian. But I do think we should be concerned if we start seeing a lot of segregation in where people live or which businesses they frequent. I think you need to have a feel for things like that in order to know if immigration policies are working well or not. It's not enough to just say that it will all work out.

(And BTW there are Chinese restaurants in Vancouver that are really good, feature interesting regional cuisine, are mostly frequented by Chinese, and are completely friendly and welcoming.)

I'm not sure why you'd break Hong Konger off into a separate category from Chinese in the statistics when "white" (non-visible-minority) is another category though. These are very rough bins.

I think there is a problem with Statistics Canada's whole notion of "visible minority", the assumption that there is a homogeneous white group and that somehow identifying as being non-white (in appearance?) is most important.

I would be much more interested in seeing statistics on language proficiency, for example.
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  #9856  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 6:05 PM
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Just saw the new Sheer/Tory ad and compared to the Liberal one, it is pretty sub-par.

As opposed to the positive and concise "Choose Forward" slogan of the Liberals, the PC slogan of "It's time for you to get ahead" which is rather uninspiring and is too long to be clearly remembered. It's also rather short sighted and narrow as their entire political campaign is a reference to only personal finances and not the way they want to move the country ahead in all aspects of governence and issues that effect Canadians. What makes them think that they can win an election promoting only one thing I am sure I don't know.

The ad itself is rather mundane and oddly presented. It first is introduced by Sheer talking forward at you, then switches to him turning his head as if he is talking to someone else or the cameraman, and then inexplicably returns to talking forward again.
It is set in an office that looks like a suburban office one and features nothing but Sheer ...........to me it looked more like a guy going into a job interview than someone trying to become the PM of the country. I am voting Liberal so admit I may be saying this with bias but trying to be objective I would still have to say that if this is the kind of both ads and message that each party are going to cling to, the Tories haven't got a chance.
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  #9857  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 6:37 PM
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Originally Posted by flar View Post
Was this property owner within his right to take down this billboard?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cha...ay-message/amp
For starters, that's an attack on a specific group within Canada. The pro-PPC billboard was not an attack on immigrants. Had it been I'm sure everyone would agree it should have come down.
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  #9858  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 9:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
As Misher above notes, there is an open hostility between Hong Kongers/Taiwanese and Mainlanders. They do not get along at all and never associate with each other. They comes from 2 completely different worlds with vastly different values and this has been clearly shown with the Hong Kong protests where each etnic group are showing their support for their respective backgrounds. This is also been laid bare with the Huawei Meng Wanzhou extradition where Mainlander are overwheling supportive of Huawei and can't seem to get their heads around the concept of due process and the rule of law.
More garbage coming from ssiguy who knows jack shit about this community but loves to muse on about it constantly. I will have to tell all the Hong Konger and Taiwanese Canadians I know who are MARRIED to Mainland Chinese to immediately get a divorce now since they had no idea that international politics dictate who they can associate with. Not to mention all the Mandarin speaking I hear in HK cafes, bbt shops and dim sum restaurants around Vancouver. Yup, there's absolutely no mixing going on in this city.
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  #9859  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by CivicBlues View Post
More garbage coming from ssiguy who knows jack shit about this community but loves to muse on about it constantly. I will have to tell all the Hong Konger and Taiwanese Canadians I know who are MARRIED to Mainland Chinese to immediately get a divorce now since they had no idea that international politics dictate who they can associate with. Not to mention all the Mandarin speaking I hear in HK cafes, bbt shops and dim sum restaurants around Vancouver. Yup, there's absolutely no mixing going on in this city.
Yes, it's total bullshit. If they hated each other so much, there wouldn't be so many Taiwanese (and Hong Kongers for that matter) living on the mainland. There are currently more than 1 million Taiwanese living and working in Mainland China, and and nearly half a million Hong Kongers. My brother in law (mainland Chinese) is married to a woman from Hong Kong.

As usual, ssiguy lets his clear hatred of mainland Chinese colour his view of the world.
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  #9860  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 10:58 PM
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What has inspired Rona Ambrose to disagree publicly with Andrew Scheer, on the eve of the election campaign, on the merits of the revised NAFTA agreement?
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